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My 18+ Year Build Thread by Doc John
Started on: 01-05-2008 11:49 AM
Replies: 90 (15780 views)
Last post by: Sage on 06-02-2017 10:20 AM
Amida
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Report this Post01-07-2008 02:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AmidaClick Here to Email AmidaSend a Private Message to AmidaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What a saga. Can you duct cold air from the sail panel?

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-07-2008 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Amida:

Can you duct cold air from the sail panel?



That's a good question. The path that the air would take from the side scoop is partly blocked by the "C" clip that was welded in around the door. Given the 328 rebody, the cone air filter is sitting directly beneath the engine vents. I might try to rig up something that forces the air to flow into the filter exclusively from above, and try to keep it from breathing hot engine compartment air. Of course, this could be a problem in the rain.


Maybe something to work on in Phase VI....

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-07-2008 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

And now to finish up Phase V, the drivetrain swap. Here I am picking up the car at Archie's shop on April 19, 2007:

Playing with the targa:




LS2 grin:




A little more engine than I was used to:

[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 01-07-2008).]

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-07-2008 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I love this angle: after it warms back up I'll take a similar photo with the deck lid down (btw, I wish I had hidden the crap in the trunk for this shot. Oh well).





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Doc John
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Report this Post01-07-2008 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

And here is where I am most Saturday nights during the summer. The Manassas Burger King sponsors a car show every Saturday night, from 4 PM - ??, from April to November. This show has a great mix of vehicles, from turbo Vipers to T buckets. Very few (i.e. NO) Fieros however... so stop by and help change that!!

The comment I like to hear the most from spectators: "Why'd you put a Corvette engine in a Ferrari?"




The BK is located at the intersection of rte 234 (NOT 234 business) and hy 28. From I-66, from either direction, take the exit for 234 south (it's just west of Manassas) Go about 5 miles south on 234 until you see Hy 28 or Nokesville Rd. Take a right (west) on it, but squeeze left quick. Take the first left into the BK.

Stop by and if you're interested I'll tell you a few stories that I forgot to put in this thread!
John

[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 01-07-2008).]

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Richjk21
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Report this Post01-07-2008 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Richjk21Send a Private Message to Richjk21Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What a great read ... and awesome Fiero history lesson. So were the pictures of the red car the same car, or was this one white it's whole life?? Couldn't quite follow that part.


Rich

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-07-2008 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Richjk21:

So were the pictures of the red car the same car, or was this one white it's whole life?? Couldn't quite follow that part.


Rich


The red 328 belonged to one of the guys at IRM, Earl Barnes. His was the second 328 conversion that IRM did, mine was the third.

My car was silver when it left the factory, then I had it painted white when I did the rebody. Since almost every Ferrari replica gets painted red, I opted for something different.

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HC
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Report this Post01-07-2008 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HCClick Here to visit HC's HomePageSend a Private Message to HCEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

So YOU'RE the guy with the beautiful 308. I've seen some pictures of your car, absolutely love it. Your car is pretty high up there on my list. Congratulations man, great thread, great car.

BTW, its also interesting to see how your personal look changes along with the car, gotta love aviators.

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-07-2008 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by HC:


BTW, its also interesting to see how your personal look changes along with the car, gotta love aviators.


The dang car got older, but I'm still in my 20's

(Actually I recently celebrated the 20 anniversary of my 26th birthday)

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Amida
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Report this Post01-08-2008 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AmidaClick Here to Email AmidaSend a Private Message to AmidaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Doc John:
Playing with the targa:





I like that targa. Where can I get one?

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Capt Fiero
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Report this Post01-08-2008 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have a pretty good idea that you and Hugh would get along great. He chose to just stay with the T-Tops though.

He does not have a ton posted on his build thread right now, but you can see from the pics, his final product is going to be something pretty similar to yours.

http://www.westcoastfieros....um_posts.asp?TID=402


------------------
85GT 5spd ,93 Eldorado 4.9 Dual O2 Custom Chip, Archie Clutch. Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything 245/50/16's Not Your Average 4.9 Capt Fiero Com --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Stock.

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FieroFanatic13
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Report this Post01-08-2008 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroFanatic13Click Here to Email FieroFanatic13Send a Private Message to FieroFanatic13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am the excited owner of this fine vehicles previous turbo drivetrain. It will be going into my '85 GT this coming spring...

-Gary

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-08-2008 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
[B]Originally posted by Amida:


I like that targa. Where can I get one?



Good question! Here is a list of all of the major suppliers to the car, and their current status:

.
Rebody from Fejer ======> Out of business

Bell tech Spindles =======> Product discontinued

Rear Lowering springs ====> different brand still available from Fiero store

Miller-Woods Turbo ======> Out of business, but turbo production was picked up by Design 1 Systems

Design 1 Systems Turbo ===> Still in business but tough to get ahold of

Corson Targa top =======> Out of business

RCC suspension/brakes ==> STILL IN BUSINESS!

IRM ================> Out of business, but some products still available through Fiero Warehouse

Darrell Morse ==========> Gone dark, presumably out of the Fiero business

PISA (interior)==========> STILL IN BUSINESS! but you can no longer buy the product upholstered

Twin Lakes (Fiero Bob)====> Out of business

V8 Archie=============> STILL IN BUSINESS!



Does anyone else notice a pattern here? Most of the original suppliers are gone. Pisa, Archie, and RCC are still players. Fiero Store makes an equivalent product. D1S might still be available. Fiero Warehouse and Sage continue to produce some of IRM's fiberglass parts. The rest are (Fiero) history.

It could be a LOT worse, however! The fact that there are still several major vendors TWENTY YEARS after production ceased is a testimonial as to how much fun these little plastic Pontiacs are!

[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 01-08-2008).]

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Amida
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Report this Post01-09-2008 09:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AmidaClick Here to Email AmidaSend a Private Message to AmidaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Doc John:






What kind of hvac controller is that ?

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vortecfiero
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Report this Post01-09-2008 07:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for vortecfieroClick Here to visit vortecfiero's HomePageClick Here to Email vortecfieroSend a Private Message to vortecfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

question
did you leave the belt drive this way ?



it seems to not have enough "purchase" on the ac compressor pulley
of course I could be wrong lol

------------------



87 Fiero GT 5sp with Vortec L35 4300 Turbocharged V6
Bully Stage 2 clutch
Syclone intake manifold and engine management with Moates adapter and chip burner
Air/water intercooler and Devil's Own progressive water/alky injection
50lb injectors, 3 bar map sensor, Walboro fuel pump and Jabasco Intercooler pump
LM1 wideband on custom manifolds and 3" stainless exhaust system
T31/T04B S4 turbo with a Super T61 in the box
S10 caliper conversion.
Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value
Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure.
Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-09-2008 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Amida:


What kind of hvac controller is that ?


That's a Vintage Air control panel. My car didn't leave the factory with A/C, so I've been adding that as well. Hope to finish it in a few weeks, maybe that can be Phase VI of the build?

Adding A/C is a real pain, now I wish I had purchased the other Fiero that the dealer had in stock back in 1985 - that one had A/C. Live and learn!

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-09-2008 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by vortecfiero:

question
did you leave the belt drive this way ?

it seems to not have enough "purchase" on the ac compressor pulley
of course I could be wrong lol




So far I have not had any trouble with the belt slipping. One time I hit a puddle and I heard it squeal, but only for a couple seconds. All quiet since.

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madcurl
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Report this Post01-18-2008 12:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlClick Here to Email madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

A very nice write-up and a history lesson to boot.

Question; are those two strut braces? I'm assuming it for preventing flex inside the engine compartment.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-18-2008).]

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-18-2008 05:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

A very nice write-up and a history lesson to boot.

Question; are those two strut braces? I'm assuming it for preventing flex inside the engine compartment.





Those are braces for the rear deck lid hinges. The deck lid sits quite a bit higher in the Mera/308/328 cars. Without some sort of bracing there is a tendancy for the hinges to "slump" backwards, screwing up deck lid alignment. Some of the 308/328 kits came with them, but most of them didn't. JIm Sutter made these so you could easily adjust the length to account for minor differences between kits.

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kevin
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Report this Post01-19-2008 01:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinClick Here to Email kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Great right up! We all appreciate the pix, since this helps us understand better how things (obstacles) are done. There is one thing you left out: Give everyone a descriptiopn on how it drives? Any amusing or interesting stories?

Thanks,
Kevin
p.s. You must have a great wife! My wife would have put a stop to this "insanity" a long time ago. Perhaps, the day I brought the Fiero home from the dealership.

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 01-19-2008).]

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-19-2008 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by kevin:

You must have a great wife! My wife would have put a stop to this "insanity" a long time ago. Perhaps, the day I brought the Fiero home from the dealership.




Yes, I do gave a great wife! I am very fortunate. She stopped buying the "Oh, this is the last thing I'm going to change on the car" line a loooooong time ago. Now she just rolls her eyes.

Of course, the old fashioned barter system comes into play here. Did you know that if you have a new engine installed you also need to buy your wife a hot tub? The logic was explained in great detail to me by my wife.

BTW the tub is great, too.




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Doc John
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Report this Post01-19-2008 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by kevin:

There is one thing you left out: Give everyone a descriptiopn on how it drives? Any amusing or interesting stories?

Thanks,
Kevin



Good point. I've driven the car with three distinctly different drivetrains: 2.8 + 4 speed n/a, 2.8 + 4 speed turbo, and LS2 + 6 speed. We all know how the stock 2.8 feels, ok off the line, fair midrange, and out of breath fairly early. It wanted to bog on my car, doubtlessly because of the large (265/50R15) rear tires. Lets all remember, however, that back in '85 and '86 the V6 Fiero was one of the fastest cars on the market - certainly in the top 10 of American cars. It's interesting to see how far the technology has come in the past 20 years - pretty much any new V6 car is faster than any stock Fiero and gets better mileage, too.

The turbo motor was interesting, once you got it to 2500+ RPM it really pulled nicely, esp in second and third gears. It still bogged a little due to the tire size. Putting the Darrell Morse TB and manifolds on it seemed to help the throttle response. I wish I had tried the Trueleo intake on the turbo motor - that might have woken it up even more.

The LS2/F40 6 speed is nothing short of astounding. I'm 46 and I guarantee that I would have killed myself within 6 months if I had a car like this when I was in my 20's. On those occasions when you're not pushing the car, it is incredibly smooth and tractable. No surprises, no headaches. When you punch it, however, it changes personality (think David Banner and the Hulk). It pulls like you wouldn't believe in second, third, and fourth gears. First gear is almost useless, when you're moving you only use it to get the thing rolling and then grab second. It even has some pull left in 5th and 6th.

I've driven real 308's and 328's, their power delivery is totally different. They (esp the pre-QV GTBi and GTSi) are actually pretty slow until you get above 5000 RPM. The LS2 has power to spare RIGHT NOW, it doesn't care if you are at 1800 RPM or 4800 RPM. It feels a lot like a 60's muscle car. Some people won't like that feeling for a Fiero, but for me, it's juuuuuust right.


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ALLTRBO
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Report this Post01-19-2008 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALLTRBOSend a Private Message to ALLTRBOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You paint a very nice performance picture!
What are your thoughts on the too-tall 2nd gear in the F40 that everyone complains (myself included) about? It sounds like it doesn't bother you one bit, being that the engine is so readily willing to pull at any RPM. I think it would be a bigger issue with a powerplant that likes to stay upstairs all the time. My AWD Talon had that problem, but it was cured with a slightly taller 1st to match.

Have you weighed the car in it's current form?

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Richjk21
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Report this Post01-19-2008 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Richjk21Send a Private Message to Richjk21Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Doc John:
Did you know that if you have a new engine installed you also need to buy your wife a hot tub?




Sounds like Win/Win to me

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-19-2008 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You make a good point about the gearing on the F40. The LS2 will happily mask the drop from 1st to 2nd, but there is no denying that you are going from a 3.77 1st gear to a 2.04 2nd. This ratio is the same in both 2006 and 2007 F40s. An engine with less torque (I'm thinking of something like a Quad 4) will not be happy with these ratios.

I can reach 60 MPH in second, although the RPMs are getting up there. A full throttle second gear blast with this drivetrain could replace Prozac AND Viagra - if it doesn't put a smile on your face you might be dead.

Regarding weight, I'm sure it's pushing 3000 lbs. Not so much from the added weight of the LS2, but from the steel subframes to reinforce the frame that went on as part of the targa.

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ALLTRBO
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Report this Post01-19-2008 04:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALLTRBOSend a Private Message to ALLTRBOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Sweet. I could probably deal with the 6-speed ratios if I wanted to put a transverse V8 in my Fiero, but I'll save that cylinder count for the TT IROC-Z with the T56 6-speed for now. It sure doesn't hook like yours, though!

Even if it's around 3k lbs, it's still lighter than the Corvette that engine was designed for. As a matter of fact, I think you're updated to that level on many other counts too, other than the suspension ('88 suspension for Phase VI? ). Better than that, there's nothing else around here like the Fierrivette, that's for sure! (Excuse the cheesy portmanteau. I just had to, heh)

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Doc John
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Report this Post01-19-2008 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Phase VI is gonna be getting the AC up and running. Sitting in this thing at a stoplight is hot in the summer! The LS2 block throws a LOT more heat than the 2.8 turbo ever did. It never goes much over 215 on the coolant temp gauge, however. The OBD II has control over turning the fan off and on; it usually turns it off while cruising at highway speeds.

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ALLTRBO
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Report this Post11-05-2009 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ALLTRBOSend a Private Message to ALLTRBOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Bump. Any updates? Get the A/C working for the summertime?

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VelociJuris
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Report this Post11-14-2009 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VelociJurisSend a Private Message to VelociJurisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Love the whole story. Thanks for sharing!

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Doc John
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Report this Post11-29-2009 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by VelociJuris:

Love the whole story. Thanks for sharing!




Glad to show it off! Is yours a Fejer car, other kit, or an original Mera?

[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 11-29-2009).]

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Doc John
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Report this Post11-29-2009 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by ALLTRBO:

Bump. Any updates? Get the A/C working for the summertime?


Sad to say, there has not been too much progress this season. I've been gettining slammed with work related matters this year, including foreign travel (first to Morocco, then Israel, managed to skip the UAE, but will likely be going to either the UK or Luxemburg by February. Morocco was cool aside from the three week diarrhea (the gift that kept on giving and giving and giving..... ) So, my work hours are up to about 65hrs/week. I've been spending my weekends training for the Marine Corps Marathon: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/069402.html It wasn't pretty, but I DID finish it. Just for fun, scroll up and look at some pix of me earlier, and then compare then with my pix from the marathon -- that's what 40 lbs (lost) looks like.

Looks like I may have a few slow months ahead of me, so the beast, aka "Moneypit," may not get to slumber peacefully through the winter. A dyno tune is on the list of "gotta-does," as is the AC. The AC parts are all there, compressor, condensor, proper sized tubing, evaporator, etc. It SHOULD be a simple matter of evacuating the system and refilliong it with R 134A. We'll see. The car also has developed a couple of idiosyncracies that need to be worked out, but I'm on them. Just gotta line up 3 days in a row.

More updates, folks ..... I Promise!!!

Docjohn

[This message has been edited by Doc John (edited 12-02-2009).]

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07Hoffmannd
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Report this Post11-30-2009 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 07HoffmanndClick Here to Email 07HoffmanndSend a Private Message to 07HoffmanndEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i am not a ferrari fan at all, but i have to say yours is the best ive seen. its not flashy, but still catches the eye. nice work man. and that interior? top drawer sir, top drawer -its a "that 70's show" reference for those who dont know-

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Archie
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Report this Post12-01-2009 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageClick Here to Email ArchieSend a Private Message to ArchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I just re-read the whole thread.

I said it before but I gotta say it again......

Still a very remarkable build & history.

Every important name like IRM, George Fejer, Jim Sutter, Miller-Woods, Randy Corson, RCC, PISA, & more have some history in this car.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 12-01-2009).]

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CheshireGrin
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Report this Post12-01-2009 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CheshireGrinClick Here to Email CheshireGrinSend a Private Message to CheshireGrinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

gives hope for us second generation fiero lovers some of which who are just begining our "build stories" i pray mine lasts nearly as long as yours or looks half as good.
Ryan

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Doc John
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Report this Post12-02-2009 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by CheshireGrin:

gives hope for us second generation fiero lovers some of which who are just begining our "build stories" i pray mine lasts nearly as long as yours or looks half as good.
Ryan


And hopefully it won't take you 19 years to (almost) finish like it's taken me!

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Doc John
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Report this Post12-02-2009 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doc JohnSend a Private Message to Doc JohnEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:

I just re-read the whole thread.

I said it before but I gotta say it again......

Still a very remarkable build & history.

Every important name like IRM, George Fejer, Jim Sutter, Miller-Woods, Randy Corson, RCC, PISA, & more have some history in this car.

Archie




There is also a West Coast Fiero part on this car ... and at one time I had something from Pegasus Engineering on it as well. I also replaced the original roof spoiler that came with the kit with one that Pat Kalsmith (Fibersmith) made. The Fejer spoiler was waaaaay too thick, the roof spoiler should look like a blade, not a blue whale.

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IVANNATINKLE
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Report this Post12-11-2009 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IVANNATINKLEClick Here to Email IVANNATINKLESend a Private Message to IVANNATINKLEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

congrats man this thing is great!

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batousai666
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Report this Post02-18-2010 07:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for batousai666Send a Private Message to batousai666Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

yeah, thanks for this little time caspule.
this read was very entertaining....
the pictures from the 80's are the best.
such a fun time to be alive. The early/middle 80's
Also, from the looks of them pics, a great location with good company
for reference, this is my Mera.
MERA X

so long,
Dan

[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 02-18-2010).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-21-2010 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraClick Here to visit La fiera's HomePageSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That was beautiful!

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328 mera
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Report this Post04-29-2010 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 328 meraClick Here to Email 328 meraSend a Private Message to 328 meraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

awesome story.
You did a wonderful job

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