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LED headights? by John W. Tilford
Started on: 02-14-2021 12:43 PM
Replies: 44 (630 views)
Last post by: theogre on 02-20-2021 04:10 PM
John W. Tilford
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Report this Post02-14-2021 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for John W. TilfordClick Here to visit John W. Tilford's HomePageClick Here to Email John W. TilfordSend a Private Message to John W. TilfordEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
'Watched a recent YouTube video where a guy installed LED headlights in his Fiero. No modifications whatsoever. Even the male headlight plugs fit the female on the Fiero. I think he quoted about $50 or $60 for both headlights.

Assuming the LED lights would use a fraction of the power of the incandescent, this has to be good for the 33 year old wires. LEDs should also last longer than incandescent. Are there any negatives here? If not, any recommendations as to which LED headlights?

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Report this Post02-14-2021 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dremuClick Here to Email dremuSend a Private Message to dremuEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oof, you're opening a giant can of worms.

Some folks love 'em, some hate 'em, some folks will launch into a lengthy diatribe about legality.

Like you, I find that the lower power consumption of LED's is easier on aging wiring and that they have longer life than traditional bulbs. I also think there's a ton of chinesium ones made to look flashy for the import boy-racer crowd which have worse light than a traditional bulb, and have about the same life expectancy due to cheap manufacture. Be wary of those that have like two dozen LED's facing every which-way inside the housing. I suspect the ones at the price you point you mention are in this class and should be avoided.

I ended up buying the Truck-Lites. They're not cheap, but they're IMO a reputable name, and if I figure in my time and hassle to install and align multiple sets of incandescent or cheapo LED's, I come out ahead.

I won't touch on legality -- it's a sore subject with many folks here -- save my usual commentary on cops: Drive like an idiot, you'll get pulled over. Give the cop attitude, they'll find even more things to tag you for.

I don't drive like an idiot, so I don't get pulled over. When I do talk to the cops -- a holiday DUI checkpoint, say -- the correct answer ends in "Yes sir"/"No sir" or "Yes ma'am"/"No ma'am". Don't give them reason to go looking for violations, and they won't go to the hassle of digging through the vehicle code to find them.

My .02, which, with inflation, is worth less than nil.

-- A

[This message has been edited by dremu (edited 02-14-2021).]

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Report this Post02-14-2021 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dave (The Ogre) will comment on this subject once he see's the title. He'll give you the legal reasons to NOT do this conversion.

My opinion is that LED's are not reliable enough to use for required life-safety devices. For those guy's offroading with those LED bars and lights mounted who use them once in a while and it doesn't matter if they fail, that's fine. LED headlights run hot as hell, they require a heatsink and sometimes even a cooling fan. Too many points of failure for me PLUS if you notice, no major reputable manufacturer makes LED headlights for sale in the U.S. Only these no-name Chinese companies sell them. Even Sylvania will only sell actual LED headlight assemblies in Canada. Here in the U.S, Sylvania sells driving/fog lights only because it doesn't matter if they fail while driving. I'll stick to my old Sylvania sealed beams

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 02-14-2021).]

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Report this Post02-14-2021 04:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
1. 99+% of cheap LED are Illegal because counterfeit/fake often w/ bogus "DOT" and maybe "ECE" marks.
Trucklight and others are way more $, like ~ $300, and fully DOT "approved" with correct makings On The Bulb front "glass" easy to see and "understand." (Understand when you know DOT lighting codes. Many codes are publicly available but not all easy find, some only in docs by SAE.)
1 cheap China made LED HL claim has fully DOT "approved" on amzn etc but no proof so far that what is claim is true as no-one has posted a good pic showing front "glass" markings. Then add many reviews say the plastic for front is very cheap and easy to damage. use search here amzn etc.

2. LED HL look good on paper and claim 20,000 Hr or more lifetime but real life often Not good to outright fraud and often won't last long even for High $ units or LED installed by vehicle manufacturer still have problems. Trucklight and other warranty only 1 to 3 years for $300 LED HL...
● Vehicle Power is Very Dirty w/ power surges, brown outs, high volts, etc. You may not see power problems because very short duration but for most LED, they see like hitting them w/ hammers. Trucklight claim has surge protection yet warranty can still voided by power surges.
● LED make Heat and Must lose that heat fast or overheat and die. Trucklight and many others HL use back of shell as passive heatsink. Big problem is most HL buckets block airflow and LEDs can't cool.
Heat Generated by LEDs is why when you buy loose 1w and higher LED often are made on heatsinks or heat spreaders that mounted to bigger heat sinks.
Most LED HL have "power pack" inside or near by needs cooling too.

LED "long life" fraud isn't just for cars.
Example: A few years ago Cree made first LED for home use to sell under $10 each thru HD w/ "10yr" warranty. Many people bought them including me and now a lot of them are dead. Many die because tiny power supply in the base fries and go dim, blinking, to totally dead. I had 1 Cree "bulb" die < 90 days so return to HD.
GE and others have similar problems and LED often last maybe a few years if your lucky.

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cvxjet
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Report this Post02-14-2021 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Approx' 2010 I installed dual beam lights in the front parking light openings.....They were Driving/fog light combo, but I converted one bulb to yellow turn-indicator bulbs....I drove to work every morning across the bay (30 miles) with just them on (IT was at 5 am so almost noone out- including cops)...I was driving on well lit streets and freeways. Did that most of the time for 5 years until I retired. On cloudy days or narrow roads I can put them on like DRLs.

If a cop pulled me over I planned on stating that I forgot to put the headlights up- might not have worked but worth a try...I point this out to AGREE with what dremu stated; Don't drive like a fool and in so doing give cops a reason to notice other...."Illegalities"

Fierosound was the originator of the dual driving lights idea.....I can recommend that if anyone does this, they should use a 921A bulb which is much brighter than the 194 bulbs.....

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Report this Post02-14-2021 07:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Illegal LED and other HL bulbs no matter where is made often performs poorly in 1 to several way and worse Blind other drivers even on "Low Beam."

If they "have a warranty" just try to get them replace when they fail often in weeks to months. They will say anything to sell crap and hope will last long enough to get passed Amzn Ebay etc return/fraud programs. Hell, next month be a wonder if you still find that vendor.
Some remember TLA... others BTR... Is same "company" and now both "closed" to sell to new suckers under a new name. Or have they "closed" and charge names again? I don't have time to keep track of them.

Before LED, Many put HID in HB2/H4 shells and Blind other drivers because those shells only made to work w/ Halogen bulbs. Now do same w/ LED "upgrades" and these shells won't focus them and back to Blinding other drivers. HB2 shell w/ 9003 bulb is legal upgrade in many places. Most H4 shell aren't legal w/ any bulb even tho is same size, output pattern is for EU market.

Most Cheap "seal beam" LED HL are no better and can be far worse then that mess.

You Don't need to do anything but use crap HL and light "upgrades." Cops almost everywhere can pull you over just for light issues/problems.
If you have Dim or Dead or other problems w/ 100% Legal OE lights then cops have valid reason to stop you. Is just one of hundreds of "Primary Offense" in most places.
Cops Do Not even have to look at bulb markings to write a Ticket for HL blinding, bad aim, any light dim/dead, etc.
In some places having "Bad HL" Ticket and other "Equipment Violation" can cost you Points too not just "Moving Violation" like Speeding or Fail to Stop at stop sign/light. Point can cost you big time on insurance bill or state can suspend your license have too many points.

Be glad your not in other counties where cops can force you get inspection after fixing a problem. Think UK in recent rule change that allow Cops can void current MOT Cert for crap HL etc. The rule change is in part of fools doing same as above, brighter/hotter halogen, etc.
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Report this Post02-14-2021 07:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
At highway speeds, incandescent bulbs are just fine.
I don't drive twice the speed limit after dark, requiring me to blind the people coming at me.

Gee, I didn't realize that copper wire wore out from low voltage and amperage conditions.
My house is 50 years old, has copper wiring and 120volts.
Maybe I should rewire it because copper wire wears out?

Not happening.
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Report this Post02-14-2021 07:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is why I made the comment that until the major manufacturers produce these, get the necessary approvals and test along with the certification, all LED headlights are not a good idea.

Here are the top 5 manufacturers for 2021:
Cougar Motor
Beamtech
Fahren
Hikari
Auxbeam

Yeah....who, who, who, who, and who?

Where's Sylvania, GE, Philips? They understand the struggles with these types of headlights so they stay out of the way and out of lawsuits.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 02-14-2021).]

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Report this Post02-14-2021 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cyrus88Send a Private Message to cyrus88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Where's Sylvania, GE, Philips?



Here you go: PHILIPS H6054LED, on Rockauto for $137.79.

Edited: Sorry I couldn't get the link to Rockauto to work.

[This message has been edited by cyrus88 (edited 02-14-2021).]

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Report this Post02-14-2021 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cyrus88:

Here you go: PHILIPS H6054LED, on Rockauto for $137.79.




That's the price EACH by the way...

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Report this Post02-14-2021 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
At highway speeds, incandescent bulbs are just fine.
I don't drive twice the speed limit after dark, requiring me to blind the people coming at me.

Gee, I didn't realize that copper wire wore out from low voltage and amperage conditions.
My house is 50 years old, has copper wiring and 120volts.
Maybe I should rewire it because copper wire wears out?

Not happening.
Wires don't "wear out" but part will "rust" or rot, get loose hardware and more can and will cause problem in any vehicle and any building and be worse for old cars and houses.

Let's see...
You likely have loose plugs and iffy switches in the walls because someone buys cheapest parts on the planet. Worse if some fool actually uses spring load back wiring and not screws on sides.
50 year old breakers and no-one check the load center for loose hardware, rust/rotten parts, warm or hot breakers.

Yup and far worse then those, house build in 60's to 70's even some in 80's often have Aluminum Wire for everything and plugs etc not made for it either right from the start or after when nubes "fix" whatever. Or splice Al to Copper wires directly.

But here's is the rub... Most problems that Al wiring "famously" have can happen to copper wire. And most homes have above problems and many are far Far worse and waiting to burn down.
Plus many to most homes in a given area w/ "Copper wire" often have some items w/ Aluminum. Electric Stoves and Driers are common examples since the 60's and maybe earlier. Most "service entry" wire from breaker to pole/pedestal is large gauge aluminum.

Just 1 iffy ground in a car is enough to cause low volts, ground loops, and more causing E-motors and controls to pull amps and burn out, bogus codes, etc.
Fiero w/ problems at G101 G102 and S103 can hose most front lights, HL motors and Radiator Fan and relay(s)/module for them at minimum.
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Report this Post02-14-2021 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cyrus88:


Here you go: PHILIPS H6054LED, on Rockauto for $137.79.

Edited: Sorry I couldn't get the link to Rockauto to work.



I wonder if they're legal in all 50 states. I know the Sylvania bulbs are only available for use in Canada. Interesting that Philips took the plunge and went into the LED market.
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Report this Post02-15-2021 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tnkgnrSend a Private Message to tnkgnrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I bought these a year and a half ago, still going strong. Direct fit, says it's DOT approved. https://www.amazon.com/gp/p..._title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Report this Post02-15-2021 01:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tnkgnr:

I bought these a year and a half ago, still going strong. Direct fit, says it's DOT approved.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/p..._title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Review...

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-15-2021).]

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theogre
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Report this Post02-15-2021 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tnkgnr:
I bought these a year and a half ago, still going strong. Direct fit, says it's DOT approved. https://www.amazon.com/gp/p..._title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Again, while Amzn and others w/ same ad text Claim is "DOT approved" pictures and text shows sign is counterfeit like far too many others and "Dot Code" mention in Text can be stolen. Is cover in another thread but...

Pictures has DOT SAE ECE {the (Ex) x is 1 of number tells what ECE standard used} marks like many counterfeits, Missing the "Code String" and Logo/Name of Manufacturer.

Go look at any car or three even new cars and look for string of letters and numbers usually along bottom of lens to see how done. Note: Some new "cars" w/ aero HL have "DOT" data on top of HL assem not on lens. Does make you open the hood but Not taking part(s) off to see. Just ignore them for now.

Also see Truck-lite.com etc and look are "Sealed beam" Halogen and LED replacements for their marking.
Examples:
Truck-lite 27009 Code is DOT 0V0H SAE HR 01 HB2 NS-2212S, Top at Top of Lens, w/o standalone logo/name
Truck-lite 27450C Code is DOT SAE HL 11 w/ Trucklite and TOP at Top of Lens.

(Ignore H6054 and others true Sealed Beams in same format as uses "old" marking format on lenses w/ DOT, 2B1, Sealed Beam, Top and Logo/Name and just where is up to maker.)

Then look at your LED. While strings won't match to others, They must have a code on the lens to be legal. You can't remove trim or lock ring to look. String must be easy to see w/o do that. Code may have something to say manufacturer or logo/name someplace else on the lens.
If you don't see the code string molded on the lens then that Light and "Ads" pushing they are Frauds.

Most aftermarket Sealed Beam replacement have logo/name somewhere in/on the lens. GE Phillips Trucklite and many more have done this as part of advertising.
Most OEM "aero style" to fit body shape most often have logo/name/"DOT"id as part of code string.

The string and other marks Must be Permanent molded in/on the plastic/glass. Not a sticker etc attach to them later.
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Report this Post02-15-2021 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tnkgnrSend a Private Message to tnkgnrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Again, while Amzn and others w/ same ad text Claim is "DOT approved" pictures and text shows sign is counterfeit like far too many others and "Dot Code" mention in Text can be stolen. Is cover in another thread but...

Pictures has DOT SAE ECE {the (Ex) x is 1 of number tells what ECE standard used} marks like many counterfeits, Missing the "Code String" and Logo/Name of Manufacturer.

Then look at your LED. While strings won't match to others, They must have a code on the lens to be legal. You can't remove trim or lock ring to look. String must be easy to see w/o do that. Code may have something to say manufacturer or logo/name someplace else on the lens.
If you don't see the code string molded on the lens then that Light and "Ads" pushing they are Frauds.

Most aftermarket Sealed Beam replacement have logo/name somewhere in/on the lens. GE Phillips Trucklite and many more have done this as part of advertising.
Most OEM "aero style" to fit body shape most often have logo/name/"DOT"id as part of code string.

The string and other marks Must be Permanent molded in/on the plastic/glass. Not a sticker etc attach to them later.


It seems like you're suggesting the ones I bought are counterfeit or fraud. I don't see where that is coming from. The DOT number is etched into the lens. There are thousands of positive reviews. They've been on the marked for three years now. I would imagine just one person getting pulled over and given a citation that these were not approved would have the whole thing shut down immediately unless Amazon wanted to become legally liable for every set sold from that point on. I don't want to hijack the thread - if you've got another where you've covered this, I'll gladly take the link!

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Report this Post02-15-2021 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tnkgnr:
if you've got another where you've covered this, I'll gladly take the link!


LED Headlights??

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 02-15-2021).]

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Report this Post02-15-2021 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tnkgnr:
It seems like you're suggesting the ones I bought are counterfeit or fraud. I don't see where that is coming from. The DOT number is etched into the lens. There are thousands of positive reviews. They've been on the marked for three years now. I would imagine just one person getting pulled over and given a citation that these were not approved would have the whole thing shut down immediately unless Amazon wanted to become legally liable for every set sold from that point on. I don't want to hijack the thread - if you've got another where you've covered this, I'll gladly take the link!
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

If you read their "ad" and many others you're see why looks counterfeit. More so w/ the pictures posted w/ the text. Even "side by side" pic saying "legal" shows both HL w/ bogus markings...
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

"Warning" Full Size Re-post is 1.8MB PNG to not cause JPG compression artifacts to add my text. 1200x1200px is original size and no edits other then added text. (Even on a standard 19" monitor is huge pic. Is "auto zoom" here to fit page. If needed save/copy and view in other tools.)

Thanks for finally post a picture of Actual product showing DOT code. That's what I asked for in the other thread link above.
Some doubt has "Origial Osram chips" but for the price for the pair most won't care if that's true or not.

While could be "counterfeit" and the Marking are still "bogus" is up to NHTSA and others to enforce it. Most people including most Courts and Many in "high places" can't tell is fake at that point. Does Code look molded into the plastic or is it really laser or other wise etched? Even if etch Very Few people can't tell real or fake w/o going having NHTSA saying one way or the other. If NHTSA say Fake months to years latter will be a Recall. Like has done w/ other aftermarket taillights etc.
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Report this Post02-16-2021 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tnkgnrSend a Private Message to tnkgnrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

While could be "counterfeit" and the Marking are still "bogus" is up to NHTSA and others to enforce it. Most people including most Courts and Many in "high places" can't tell is fake at that point. Does Code look molded into the plastic or is it really laser or other wise etched? Even if etch Very Few people can't tell real or fake w/o going having NHTSA saying one way or the other. If NHTSA say Fake months to years latter will be a Recall. Like has done w/ other aftermarket taillights etc.


The markings appear to be etched on the inside surface of the lens. Thanks Gall, for the link.

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Report this Post02-16-2021 12:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Get them, don't get them...it's your vehicle. I have the aforementioned "unliked" LED's. Mine work just fine after a few years of use. No I did not check the DOT markings before purchasing them.

This is what I have: LED
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Report this Post02-16-2021 01:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for da.slyboyClick Here to Email da.slyboySend a Private Message to da.slyboyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tnkgnr:

I would imagine just one person getting pulled over and given a citation that these were not approved would have the whole thing shut down immediately unless Amazon wanted to become legally liable for every set sold from that point on.


That very well could be the case.......that is if I ever heard or seen a person actually get a citation on DOT approval of a headlight (unless they were just crazy like a full red or something). Do people actually get citations for this? Perhaps. Is it such a small number that most of these companies that produce headlights and such never have an issue? Probably so.

I just don't see why DOT legality ever has to come into these headlight questions. People ask about style, reliability, fit, blindness, beam, etc). I don't seem ever read a title of "DOT approved LED Headlights" More than half of this post contains this replies of an answer that the OP wasn't looking for.
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Report this Post02-16-2021 01:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:

Get them, don't get them...it's your vehicle. I have the aforementioned "unliked" LED's. Mine work just fine after a few years of use. No I did not check the DOT markings before purchasing them.

This is what I have: LED
Is same one, just "silver" version.
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Report this Post02-16-2021 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dremuClick Here to Email dremuSend a Private Message to dremuEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by da.slyboy:
More than half of this post contains this replies of an answer that the OP wasn't looking for.


This is an Internet forum, wherein you find The Absolute Truth as given by people who are experts in a wide variety of fields, often in cryptic, incoherent and wildly mis-spelled diatribes. What else would you expect?

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Report this Post02-16-2021 12:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaClick Here to Email WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is it the consumer's responsibility to determine if a product, such as LED headlights, are either counterfeit or legit DOT markings?

Is the consumer liable because they couldn't determine if it is legit or not and they just purchase the item from a reputable retailer, such as Amazon?
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Report this Post02-16-2021 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:

Is it the consumer's responsibility to determine if a product, such as LED headlights, are either counterfeit or legit DOT markings?

Is the consumer liable because they couldn't determine if it is legit or not and they just purchase the item from a reputable retailer, such as Amazon?


welll....... Amazon is not super reputable. Known yes reputable no... also who is to say you bought it directly from amazon and not one of the millions of sellers on amazon?
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theogre
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Report this Post02-16-2021 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by da.slyboy:
That very well could be the case.......that is if I ever heard or seen a person actually get a citation on DOT approval of a headlight (unless they were just crazy like a full red or something). Do people actually get citations for this? Perhaps. Is it such a small number that most of these companies that produce headlights and such never have an issue? Probably so.

I just don't see why DOT legality ever has to come into these headlight questions. People ask about style, reliability, fit, blindness, beam, etc). I don't seem ever read a title of "DOT approved LED Headlights" More than half of this post contains this replies of an answer that the OP wasn't looking for.
Sadly Not Likely. Amzn and other Web and Local store have all kind or crap and illegal products including car lights. When NHTSA ordered Recall for crap "Altezza" knock offs (Highlights, https://fmvss108.tripod.com/ ), the Stores selling them Did Not get penalties for selling. Stores got their money and laugh at buyers of crap and markers have to eat the Recall Costs.

Right Now, Go to AZ and other car parts stores alone and you find LED "bulbs" next to and replace 2057 etc w/ notice somewhere "Off Road Use Only" and knowing sold by Markers and Stores for people to install in street cars often right there in stores packing lot. No LED replacement "bulb" meets FMVSS 108 rules because of cave LED poisoning and more problems.

"Dot Legal" in US, "ECE legal" in UK EU and similar country X legal cuts out Complete Junk that Does Blind other drives and preforms badly otherwise.
In US and Canada that means the HL "bulbs" have Passed FMVSS and/or CMVSS section 108 to Preform Right and shells and lenses will last for several years w/o scratching, warping, etc.
Counterfeits and other Complete Crap mostly made in China right now is a Huge Problem in a lot of countries... US, CA, UK, all EU member, Japan, and more. Again, these HL "bulbs" are part of recent Rule Changes for MOT Certs. MOT Certs are equiv US State Inspection but way more strict like HL have to pass Output Pattern on an "Aiming Machine" that uses Optical Aiming like most Car Marker do.

That skipping PA and other State laws are based on or copies of FMVSS w/ some minor changes so FMVSS might ref to X section of Rules while PA have same but in Y section of Law.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-16-2021).]

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theogre
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Report this Post02-16-2021 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dremu:
This is an Internet forum, wherein you find The Absolute Truth as given by people who are experts in a wide variety of fields, often in cryptic, incoherent and wildly mis-spelled diatribes. What else would you expect?
If you think this is bad... Go Read FMVSS 571.108 and try to Find all SAE docs that reference there. SAE has a huge Pay Wall and cost a lot to get all needed. Only sometimes to get lucky and find Lawyer or School that posted copies of some SAE docs.

Is Why Way Too Many people think DOT is enough on HL because have No Clue nearly all marks even for old Sealed Beams are there because DOT/NHTSA require them. So China many crap HL started to only DOT SAE and even ECE's (Ex) NHTSS makes that easier because even when people want good HL only hard to Read FMVSS to "find" answers. IIHS, CPSC, Consumer Reports and others Doesn't Help w/ this issue or makes worse problems.
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theogre
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Report this Post02-16-2021 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:
Is it the consumer's responsibility to determine if a product, such as LED headlights, are either counterfeit or legit DOT markings?

Is the consumer liable because they couldn't determine if it is legit or not and they just purchase the item from a reputable retailer, such as Amazon?
Read last 2 post... in short...
1. Stores make a lot of money selling crap and don't care when Recalled.
2. Pubic has no clue and Gov doesn't help much or at all. Even if people want to know, is often hidden in "books" from Govrmnt written mainly for the Manufacturers like FMVSS. I even have trouble reading FMVSS and SAE doc even after reading Tech docs most of my life.
3. Some stores and some Manufacturers simply slap "Off Road" warning somewhere on the "box." Many of these warning are hard to find. Pilot LED available at many stores has such but small and on back that few will see. Sylvania has it on front and more can see but few know or cares what that means.

 
quote
Originally posted by skywurz:
welll....... Amazon is not super reputable. Known yes reputable no... also who is to say you bought it directly from amazon and not one of the millions of sellers on amazon?
Isn't just 3rd parties, Amzn itself carries "knock offs" etc. too.

AZ and others carries crap too like "Altezza" taillight now ~ 20 years past.
Many local stores still carries HID and LED illegally to upgrade "aero" HL in current cars w/ or w/o "Off Road Use Only" label.

That just "the tip of the Iceberg." Everything Recalled by CPSC has been sold by Local Stores and only last 20 years online.
Most to All stores don't have to pay out after a product is recalled or "cancel" by Gov or makers.
Just read how many Kids are hurt or killed then whatever is Recalled... Most Stores Don't pay anything.
Walmart and others got sued for selling Blitz Gas "cans" might payed some but go and look at stores w/ plastic gas "cans" just made by another co. as Blitz went Bankrupt.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post02-16-2021 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have direct fit Truck-Lite 27009 Halogen Headlights on my Fiero. I didn't install LED headlights because the quality and performance of those units is all over the place. Direct replacement Halogen headlights made by Truck-lite no longer seem to be available in the 5 x 7 size but they still show it here Truck-Lite 27009. Reliable company, plenty brilliant and D.O.T. legal a stated on their web page.
Expanding on what theocre has said, if you install non-DOT approved lights, get into a front end accident and make a claim, your insurance company will deny coverage for illegal equipment.

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 02-16-2021).]

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theogre
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Report this Post02-16-2021 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
I didn't install LED headlights because the quality and performance of those units is all over the place. I installed a set of Halogen headlights made by Truck-lites but they no longer seem to offer the 5 x 7 size. Reliable company, plenty brilliant and D.O.T. legal. Expanding on what theocre has said, if you install non-DOT approved lights, get into a front end accident and make a claim, your insurance company will deny coverage for illegal equipment.
Should be 27009... https://www.truck-lite.com/27009-3.html

Site says still made/available but many stores may not carry them because "everyone" wants cheap LEDs.
Likely many won't stock Truck-lite and other legal LED for same reason.

Believe Hella and others have HB2 kits (US Equiv to H4) that are "DOT Legal" too but may also be hard to find for same reason.

Is not just "you making a claim" but people making a claim to/ageist your policy or sue you because you blind others etc causing a crash.

Many have "LED" taillight "upgrade" can have same results when blind people behind you or too dim and crash. Yes, Most places will Automatically write a Ticket that "rear end" you but they can still sue in Civil Courts in many places. In many court cases you will "be deposed" even before you see a judge and when you say use LED "upgrades" better be ready to lose and pay big time. Even in Insurance doesn't Void a policy, Most have "State Minimum" and capped very low and you're "on the hook" paying the rest. Many places have "No Fault" laws but may not apply when you have illegal parts on a car.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-16-2021).]

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Report this Post02-16-2021 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Double post.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 02-16-2021).]

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skywurz
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Report this Post02-16-2021 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since we are off in the weeds. I would really really like this tech to come to the USA but out DOT laws are messed up and outdated.

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Report this Post02-16-2021 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by skywurz:
Since we are off in the weeds. I would really really like this tech to come to the USA but out DOT laws are messed up and outdated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSix5r38qY
Is for OEM and many OEM system aren't available thru the aftermarket for many reasons. (Like No Airbag upgrades for old cars.)

Cadi and others have auto dimming HL back to a lest the 60's this is only an advance version of that.
I drove several cars w/ auto-dim and even simplest systems work well because you don't have to hit dimmer switch every time you have oncoming traffic on "country" 2-way road when you get just barely enough traffic becomes tiring and just stay on low beam.

Old Cadi had light cell to a "box" that have relay and few parts so can adjust the feature. So when have wide median to yellow line can set sensitivity different.
You could make a kit but making one to buy to fit universally is a lot harder. I think some have/had and sold thru JC Witless etc but installing and having work right isn't easy either.

Believe DOT does allow "turning HL" that aims more left/right in a turn and self leveling too. Self-leveling is good w/ large people in a car or heavy crap in the trunk etc. changes HL aiming. I think these only come w/ some high dollar luxury cars. Some Trucks might have self-leveling too.
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Report this Post02-16-2021 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skywurzClick Here to visit skywurz's HomePageSend a Private Message to skywurzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im fine with it being an OEM thing. It just needs to happen the DOT needs to get it together. ill drop this article from 2015 [url=]https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a25827/the-enginerdy-dept-dot-in-the-dark-headlight-tech/[/url] and nothing has happen in the last 6 years
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Wichita
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Report this Post02-16-2021 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WichitaClick Here to Email WichitaSend a Private Message to WichitaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is much to say if the DOT regulations are really just way behind the times as well.

With many of the current camera technologies installed in new vehicles as an example, they can do away with trivial side mirrors that are required by DOT regulations.

The EU I believe has already allowed vehicles equipped with side mirror cameras to do away with the manual mirrors, as it is deemed safe.

But the USA, they always drag their feet on any upgrades to their regulations. Stuff on the books meant for yesteryears of decades old cars.

I mean, we are really fighting the regulations of headlights being halogen vs LED? Halogen has been used since the 60s. We should be looking to get rid of it.

Even most cities have moved away from sodium lights to LEDs for street lamps and good luck finding incandescents for your home.

I understand the "off road use only" warning labels that comes from lawyers looking for a payday. I mean, we had to get rid of HP rating for lawn mowers because of lawyers, so I'm not for sure if we are really talking about safety or legality at this point of time when it comes to LED headlights.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 02-16-2021).]

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Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post02-17-2021 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Despite all that’s being said, I love my LED’s on my 85 GT. Had them for a year now and have never had anyone flash their high beams on me, And yes, I carefully aimed them and yes mine are DOT marked.
There was one negative: I really had to modify the headlight buckets as the back of the led housings have cooling fins which interfered with the steel buckets. Several hours of moto-tooling and some touch up painting of the buckets black and voila.

Here is a few pics of mine;
Kit
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theogre
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Report this Post02-18-2021 01:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You guys think DOT/NHTSA is slow to update FMVSS?
You have no idea how often GM and all manufacturers fight Any rule change and fight Any Recall.
Is part of Why the Brake Rules have 2 section of FMVSS and lower standard/testing for P-brake in newer section.
NHTSA Recalls have many problems way beyond allowing GM blaming Fiero and others not using P-brake and Brake Recall Only Applies to manual trans cars.

 
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:
I understand the "off road use only" warning labels that comes from lawyers looking for a payday. I mean, we had to get rid of HP rating for lawn mowers because of lawyers, so I'm not for sure if we are really talking about safety or legality at this point of time when it comes to LED headlights.
"Off Road," "Check Local Laws" like TFS loves, and others "Warnings" isn't just for lawyers and others dealing w/ crashes. Everything w/ with these statements are knowingly selling Illegal Parts to Avoid having NHTSA, FTC, etc. Recalling or otherwise having cases in Fed Courts.

Even If a Customer of TFS wants to "Check Local Laws" for crape HL they sell for ~ 20 Years is Very Hard to Impossible in most places. You can't find most lighting rules/laws by going to state DMV website or even at Main Office in the State Capital. Is often "buried" in State's Law or Reg "books" and even when found often very hard to read. Example, again: PA vehicle light law is almost verbatim of FVMSS 571.108 and most people can't read most of that either.
Many states still don't have all Laws and Reg's online.
If a state or local region really doesn't have ruled about car lights... Many cops can use FMVSS or other National laws/rules to write Tickets.
Many Q in NHTSA database that you can search and read are from LEO wanted more detail on a topic like LED to Replace Standard Bulbs in Taillights etc.
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60Greyhound
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Report this Post02-18-2021 03:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 60GreyhoundClick Here to Email 60GreyhoundSend a Private Message to 60GreyhoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I find these threads amusing to read... basically LED lights are an improvement when fitted and aimed correctly they will be more reliable and give better light. Most manufacturers are now fitting LEDs as standard for that reason.
In my experience as long as they are fitted and aimed correctly Police and vehicle testers will never issue warnings for them, as they realise they are a 'modern upgrade' for a 30 year old vehicle, making it safer to drive.
Interesting the resistance to Lighting changes does not carry over to engine/brake upgrades which are actively encouraged?
Some people are just very resistant to change, and modernisation. Which is fine if you want a concours/original car... Me, I'm all for it, modern brakes, modern lights, modern engine... hell my car isn't even running fuses/relays anymore as I'm installing a PDM module instead!
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Report this Post02-18-2021 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

You guys think DOT/NHTSA is slow to update FMVSS?


For a long time DoT thought automotive lighting development ENDED with the sealed beam headlight. Technology advanced and better lights were available in the rest of the world for a couple of decades before DoT started to catch up. In fact pop-up headlights were a way for designers to work around the DoT requirements to use big square headlights with shapes that couldn't be changed to fit the car. Also why enthusiasts for European brands have been installing Euro lights on their cars for years and years.
DoT has finally started to come around on lighting regulations, but we're still behind the rest of the world on that.

European heavy trucks can have hydraulic disk brakes. US trucks must have air brakes, which means we must have drum brakes. Another case of DoT not updating their regs to keep pace with technology.
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css9450
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Report this Post02-18-2021 11:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by 60Greyhound:

Interesting the resistance to Lighting changes does not carry over to engine/brake upgrades which are actively encouraged?


Oh, it probably does, if you look hard enough. Depends who you ask.

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