Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  Pulled the Engine, Now What??

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
Pulled the Engine, Now What?? by eti engineer
Started on: 11-10-2020 09:15 PM
Replies: 17 (356 views)
Last post by: eti engineer on 11-16-2020 04:06 PM
eti engineer
Member
Posts: 48
From: Great Central Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-10-2020 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was in here a few years back, but no I need some information from you all... Good to be back

I finally retired so now I have time to do other projects. Even though I am 70, I am in excellent shape and can do heavy work. I am an high-voltage systems test engineer, so I still get called back to work once in a while as needed.

I have an '88 GT with T-tops in excellent condition and I love it, But after 32 years of being on the road, the car leaks oil badly, mainly from the engine. So two days ago, I removed the whole engine and cradle thanks to someone who posted a step-by-step procedure for doing so. If you are in here, thanks a million!!!! After I built the cradle that he recommended, it was really easy. The engine only has 120,000 on it, and seems to not burn oil, even on start up, but I would bet the valve seals are hard as a rock.

I live in the over-regulated and psychotic state of CA. I would like to get some more hp out of the 2.8 if possible, or replace it, but need to keep the vehicle so it can pass smog. If I am going to have to tear down everything to replace seals and gaskets, I am left with the question of how to proceed. I am sure this question may have been asked before, but what would you do in my case? I am open for all and any suggestions. Money will not be an issue, but I do want to do the work myself. Thanks in advance for any help...

------------------
1988 Fiero, 1962 CJ-5 and more to come...

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Gall757
Member
Posts: 10713
From: Holland, MI
Registered: Jun 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 89
Rate this member

Report this Post11-10-2020 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You have one clear option, the 3.4 short block, which will fit in your car and pass CA smog. There are many threads describing how to do it.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122475.html

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 11-10-2020).]

IP: Logged
fierosound
Member
Posts: 14542
From: Calgary, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 280
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2020 12:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eti engineer:

But after 32 years of being on the road, the car leaks oil badly, mainly from the engine.
The engine only has 120,000 on it, and seems to not burn oil, even on start up, but I would bet the valve seals are hard as a rock.



It's likely your big oil leak was from the distributor O-ring which could have been easily fixed.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/000034.html#p0


------------------
My World of Wheels Winners (Click on links below)

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

IP: Logged
eti engineer
Member
Posts: 48
From: Great Central Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2020 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gall 757,

Thanks for the input. I think I will go this route. Can I order a 3.4 long block set up with emissons fittings, etc? Excuse my ignorance, but I have always just rebuilt what I had, so I don't know. If so, can you recommend a vendor?

Sorry to hear about the problem you experienced, trying to bolt the tranny back into place. I hate aluminum, but when I pulled the tranny and xfer case out of my '62 Willys, I was reminded of how nice it is not to have the extra weight. The tranny and xfer case are all steel and it was HEAVY and awkward to handle, even on a transmission jack.

Have a great day, ok?
IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 13722
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 322
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2020 10:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eti engineer:

Gall 757,

Thanks for the input. I think I will go this route. Can I order a 3.4 long block set up with emissons fittings, etc? Excuse my ignorance, but I have always just rebuilt what I had, so I don't know. If so, can you recommend a vendor?

Sorry to hear about the problem you experienced, trying to bolt the tranny back into place. I hate aluminum, but when I pulled the tranny and xfer case out of my '62 Willys, I was reminded of how nice it is not to have the extra weight. The tranny and xfer case are all steel and it was HEAVY and awkward to handle, even on a transmission jack.

Have a great day, ok?

The 93-95 Camaro 3.4L pushrod engine will accept all of the bolt on parts of the 88 2.8L engine including the emissions hardware. Its an easy install and you will need to use the 3.4L injectors. A finished install will look identical to the 2.8L engine. There is only one problem. The 3.4L P/R engine is no longer available as a new short block. The option would be to purchase a rebuilt long block but you may first need to find a good used core.
The good news is that they often come up for sale here in the mall.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

IP: Logged
darbysan
Member
Posts: 941
From: Las Vegas
Registered: Oct 2014


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2020 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another option is to contact ARI engines. They do stroker kit for the 2.8, that would give you 3.1 L with good power. The 3.4 would likely give you a little more torque, and might be cheaper in the long run if you can find one. ARI may also have other options- they used to show more.

Edit- just saw that they offer the 3.4 L block as a stroker as well- there's your option to get a fresh block.
https://engine-parts.com/pr...stroker-short-block/

https://engine-parts.com/online-store/

------------------
'87 GT , '00 3800 Series II SC, 4t65e, Vue Power Steering. (SOLD)

[This message has been edited by darbysan (edited 11-11-2020).]

IP: Logged
theogre
Member
Posts: 29485
From: USA
Registered: Mar 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 551
Rate this member

Report this Post11-11-2020 01:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Pulled the Engine, Now What??"
You Don't have to tear apart engine to replace front or back main seals.
Just buy/borrow/etc right tools to remove and install them. Some tools likely can make w/ standard plumbing parts/pipes to drive them.

Front main use balancer to seal... balancer can wear there and need a sleeve "kit" or replacement depending on balancer condition.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave

IP: Logged
eti engineer
Member
Posts: 48
From: Great Central Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-12-2020 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All,

After having torn down the 2.8 liter and realizing the engine itself is in good condition and it's just mainly worn-out gaskets, I am planning to pull it from the cradle and set it aside. I have done some research and based on your comments to my posts, thanks to all, I have decided to go with the 3.4 liter engine. I have located a vendor, (passed along to me by a friend who has used them in the past for some of the many cars he has redone), who will build a long block for me. There are two questions that need to be answered, though, and I am hoping that you all can help me with this.

1 -- I am assuming I will need to get a new ECM for the 3.4. Is this the case or can I use the one I have?

2 -- Since the car will be in CA and will need to be smogged, which year of 3.4 engine should I go with ? 1988 like the original 2.8, or something newer? I am not sure how this all works, so I am hoping that someone can help me along these lines. I was just thinking that maybe a later engine would pass the lighter smog requirements that existed in 1988. Are the smog requirements the same for all cars of a given year and engine size (assuming water-cooled gasoline engines only), or do the requirements vary from car to car?

THanks in advance for your help.

[This message has been edited by eti engineer (edited 11-12-2020).]

IP: Logged
Gall757
Member
Posts: 10713
From: Holland, MI
Registered: Jun 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 89
Rate this member

Report this Post11-12-2020 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In order to pass California smog inspection, the engine will need to look and function exactly like a stock 2.8, and it will be tested as an 88 engine. There is no visible difference on the outside. I believe you can use the ECM you have, but one of our CA smog experts can verify that.
IP: Logged
eti engineer
Member
Posts: 48
From: Great Central Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-13-2020 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gall 575, thanks for the info. I will get my engine ordered today and in the meantime, I will prep the cradle and transmission to accept the new stuff when it arrives. I saw a photo of someone's Fiero who did the same thing I am doing and it looks exactly the same as the engine that came out of it. Should not be an issue. One last thing... I am assuming that that the fuel injectors for the 3.4 are different than those from the 2.8, right? I don't want to use the old ones anyway, but just want to make sure I order the correct items. Thanks to all of you who have answered questions so far. I appreciate being helped through the "unknowns" in this project.

I just noticed that I called you "Gall 575". Sorry. I do have issues with dyslexia and not sure if this is from that. Sixes and Nines and Twos and Fives mess me up. (I know I left myself open for jokes on the "Sixes and Nines" comment. I have heard them all before. Being 'em on!!!!)

[This message has been edited by eti engineer (edited 11-13-2020).]

IP: Logged
eti engineer
Member
Posts: 48
From: Great Central Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-13-2020 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[img]http://images.fieroforum.com/userimages/eti%2520engineer/11-9-20%20FIERO%20IN%20GARAGE%20JUST%20BEFORE%20ENGINE %20TEARDOWN%20.jpg[/img]

------------------
1988 Fiero, 1962 CJ-5 and more to come...

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
eti engineer
Member
Posts: 48
From: Great Central Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-13-2020 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

eti engineer

48 posts
Member since Mar 2017
[im

------------------
1988 Fiero, 1962 CJ-5 and more to come...

IP: Logged
Doug85GT
Member
Posts: 9274
From: Sacramento CA USA
Registered: May 2003


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post11-13-2020 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks good. There are a lot of threads on ways to improve horsepower on the 3.4 pushrod. One relatively easy way is to install 1.6 ratio rockers with roller tips. On the 2.8 it is good for about a 10-15 hp increase. I am not sure if you would see that much on the 3.4 because you still start to run into restrictions from the intake. You can also look into aftermarket cams but you need to be careful there. You don't want to fail smog with an aggressive cam.

If you have a lot of time or money on hand, porting your heads and intake will add a few extra horses. You certainly should go over the exhaust manifolds with a die grinder.
IP: Logged
pmbrunelle
Member
Posts: 3701
From: Grand-Mère, Québec
Registered: Sep 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 55
Rate this member

Report this Post11-13-2020 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

In order to pass California smog inspection, the engine will need to look and function exactly like a stock 2.8, and it will be tested as an 88 engine. There is no visible difference on the outside. I believe you can use the ECM you have, but one of our CA smog experts can verify that.


To be clear, what you're saying is that the 3.4 bottom end is illegal in California, and that we can just try to sneak it past smog, knowing they probably won't strip off the heads to measure bore and stroke. At least, this is my understanding of the sitation.

If some Californian could elaborate on the legality of a 3.4 bottom end in a Fiero (dressed with the red stuff), then please share.

Basically, there are two types of "pass smog":
Meet smog requirements legally
Pass smog test illegally

OP, which kind of pass do you require?
IP: Logged
fierosound
Member
Posts: 14542
From: Calgary, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 280
Rate this member

Report this Post11-13-2020 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Doug85GT:

You certainly should go over the exhaust manifolds with a die grinder.


Exhaust manifold http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-2-116244.html



IP: Logged
Gall757
Member
Posts: 10713
From: Holland, MI
Registered: Jun 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 89
Rate this member

Report this Post11-13-2020 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I suspect that modifying the exhaust manifold is illegal too......
IP: Logged
Notorio
Member
Posts: 2206
From: Temecula, CA
Registered: Oct 2003


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-14-2020 02:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is a thread here that pulls a lot of the info together for victims of California nonsense: Ghost Mods That Are Smog Friendly
IP: Logged
eti engineer
Member
Posts: 48
From: Great Central Valley, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2017


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post11-16-2020 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eti engineerClick Here to Email eti engineerSend a Private Message to eti engineerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK, so the engine I am getting is being built. Since I have never put a new or freshly built long block in anything, what should I be doing while re-assembling the rest of the engine and before start up? You know, things like pre-lubing, how to make sure the oil pump picks up right away on start up, etc.? Any recommendations will be appreciated.

I also understand that I will need to get some different injectors. I was going to replace them anyway, but I now need 17 lb/hr injectors, correct? Where is the best place to get these.

Anything else I need to know, please advise. It's been a while since I did this kind of car work and I don't want to miss anything.

Thanks...
IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock