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88GT Road Race car build with a 3.4TDC by darkhorizon
Started on: 06-09-2020 02:02 PM
Replies: 131 (3445 views)
Last post by: Blacktree on 12-09-2020 02:12 PM
Raydar
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Report this Post06-20-2020 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
...
Fuel problem was found last night, likely the source of all my engine related problems...
100% of the 3800 stuff I've done with fieros would shown absolutely no chance of even running at all if I found this in the tank. Pretty amazed to be honest.



Dude...
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Will
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Report this Post06-20-2020 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Were they running it on acetone?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-20-2020).]

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post06-20-2020 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Must have been ran on some acid octane booster.
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Report this Post06-20-2020 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome find on the fuel system... Let us know how it runs when you get it back up and running....

Do you have any information on the type of front and rear shocks you're running as well as the maxima conversion details?
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post06-21-2020 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by msweldon:

Awesome find on the fuel system... Let us know how it runs when you get it back up and running....

Do you have any information on the type of front and rear shocks you're running as well as the maxima conversion details?


Very little. the rear has welded in "camber plates" that mount the top of the shock, and are slotted for alignment adjustment. Beyond that it seems to be a maxima koni bolted in with a generic coil over kit installed on it.

Front is pretty standard Held/whatever motorsports control arms, 88 drop knuckles, and a koni coilover that you would probably find on a mustang rear end. I am pretty sure the alignment settings are built into the factory butterfly nut on the top control arm.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post06-22-2020 11:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First drive with no issues, runs perfectly stock.

However now that I have a car that drives like normal, I notice that the gear whine is pretty loud at very light throttle, and goes away completely off the throttle... It gets quieter if i put some more power to it.
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Report this Post06-23-2020 08:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You checked transmission oil, right?
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post06-23-2020 08:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

You checked transmission oil, right?


No, I like the gas tank I thought it was a waste of time to check trans fluid.

kidding, yes I checked it and it looked good, changed it with syncromesh anyway, overfilled it a bit, noise is the same. I also unhooked the somewhat solid upper motor mount and the volume was the same. Its been rebuilt and fiddled with so I really just want to ignore it for now but it is really quite loud. I will try to keep an eye on it as it might quiet down when it gets warm?
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Report this Post06-24-2020 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The gear whine... I installed a zero mile (after rebuild) NVG T550 in my car, instead of the 4T60E.
A few days/weeks into the "honeymoon period", the drain plug came out of the trans.
I was on the interstate, in 5th gear, when I noticed a bit of gear whine. Since I was only a few miles from home, and figured there was nothing I could really do about it anyway, I just slowed way down, and drove as easy as I could. (At that point, I didn't know that the plug had come out. Just that it had suddenly gotten louder.)
Going forward, I purchased another plug, and filled it back up with synchromesh. I changed it at after a short drive, before calling it good. No metal "hairs", dust, or shrapnel when I drained it.
The upshot is that it still has a bit of gear whine in 5th. Never a problem, and it certainly isn't getting any worse.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-24-2020).]

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Will
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Report this Post06-24-2020 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wrung the splines off an inner CV joint at an 1/8 mile strip.
Ever since then the transmission has had whined on coast-down ~45 mph in any gear.
A friend's stock DSM transmission started to whine in first gear after piling on hard launches for a while.
They can be hurt without being broken.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-24-2020).]

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Report this Post06-25-2020 02:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FrenchrafeClick Here to Email FrenchrafeSend a Private Message to FrenchrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know if this type of gear oil is available in the USA, but it's what we use in competition here in France:


The stuff is really good at keeping a stock gearbox alive when driving trackdays etc...
Also cuts down whine.
Only difficult thing is the gear changes when cold, but it soon heats up on the track!

Regards,
Rafe

PS I overfill my gearbox by about 500ml - just for insurance.

PPS The gear oil costs like 3 times the price of the normal stuff, but I think it's worth it. Loads of other racers seem to think the same thing as well!


------------------
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https://www.youtube.com/cha...1wZvWQlkYxTjivW_0XNg

[This message has been edited by Frenchrafe (edited 06-25-2020).]

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Report this Post06-25-2020 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

First drive with no issues, runs perfectly stock.

However now that I have a car that drives like normal, I notice that the gear whine is pretty loud at very light throttle, and goes away completely off the throttle... It gets quieter if i put some more power to it.


Doesn't that sound like an indication of misaligned gears? Perhaps one or both mating surfaces of a pair have a wear pattern not meshing perfectly with one another? I rebuilt a rear diff and got the pinion spacing off so it does this.
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Report this Post06-29-2020 12:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Been quiet for a few days, really putting in some work on this car last week.

First off... Track day this last weekend. Fuel pump fix has it running ok, but still dealing with some low throttle misfires, and it seems like its a little down on power, but not much, feels a bit rich is all.



Managed to get the brakes COMPLETELY figured out. The willwood sized DTC70/60 pads are great, and needed minor grinding on the knuckles and pads to fit, as seen here. Also the pin slider holes were drilled out. These brakes combined with stock rotors and calipers are absolutely flawless, perfectly consistent, great bias with the 70/60 front/rear combined with the OEM bias valve. Extremely happy here, and I doubt I will be changing these any time soon. The only thing I may do is go for a 13inch viper rotor but only after I add a bunch more power than I have now.





Steering has been holding back some speed from me. There is a combination of worn out tie rod ends and a crunchy weird feeling rack that causes me to be very out of control when im turning in, which causes me to overbrake most corners so I can get turned in comfortably. Its a few seconds off pace of my s2000 still, so further development is needed here in steering to contribute to my goal of beating my s2000 times at my favorite tracks.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 07-01-2020).]

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Report this Post07-01-2020 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Craig71188Send a Private Message to Craig71188Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you for the update on the pads - that will help the budget!!! Also, regarding the gearbox, I have used (and intend to use) RedLine HD Shockproof Gear Lube. We have used it extensively in Hewland gearboxes for formula cars and sports ravers where we regularly exceed the rated torque capacity of the gearbox and it works very well. We have even used their light duty shockproof on shifter karts for autocross due to the repeated standing start shocks to the gearbox and again, no failures (other than a couple of chains!).

Sure glad you bought this before I have to explain another Fiero race car to the wife....
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Will
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Report this Post07-02-2020 09:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great to hear you found something that works to your satisfaction on the brakes!
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post07-02-2020 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Great to hear you found something that works to your satisfaction on the brakes!


Yeah, This needs to be some sort of public information for anyone that wants good braking performance.
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Report this Post07-03-2020 07:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Craig71188Send a Private Message to Craig71188Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


Yeah, This needs to be some sort of public information for anyone that wants good braking performance.


I am thinking that getting together (Forum/FB Group) folks actually road racing (endurance racing) Fiero's is needed to help weed out a lot of the "clutter". It's a small band and I have "corresponded" online with several. Seems a place to share data/parts/tech SPECIFICALLY related to road racing would help all of us faster.
BabyShark
Fieroline (and a sister team in the NW)
"Mender" - Canadien team on Champcar forum
Me (in Ohio - still building)
Yourself
And I know I am forgetting someone - and there are more out there.
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Will
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Report this Post07-05-2020 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Yeah, This needs to be some sort of public information for anyone that wants good braking performance.


Would the pads fit unmodified with a little more grinding on the knuckles?

Have you used Porterfields on track?
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post07-06-2020 12:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Would the pads fit unmodified with a little more grinding on the knuckles?

Have you used Porterfields on track?


Probably would NOT fit unless you modified both ends, you are already starting to get into the bolt holes and the pads are easier to grind so it only makes sense.

The porterfields are something I have never ran myself, and i've heard of MAYBE one of my fellow track people ever use them before, and had an average review of them. They might work fine but its not something I would be interested in testing.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post07-08-2020 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post07-12-2020 03:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good to see you back! I'm surprised to see it doesn't have an L67!

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Report this Post07-14-2020 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sspeedstreetClick Here to Email sspeedstreetSend a Private Message to sspeedstreetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
PM'd you about the '88 steering rack.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post08-03-2020 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Been to the track twice with it since last update, so I am going to recap some stuff.

Trans is still running like a top. The fluid is a little murky so I'm beginning to think that the PhantomSlip diff is still in there grinding away... It also leaks out an axle seal so I am just being lazy and filling it every few times I drive it.

Motor still runs like crap when it gets warm. Tip in throttle is super bad under 4000rpms. My alternator died halfway through my last race weekend, and while it died it produced the same symptoms that it has had every time I've driven it, so I am thinking that the alternator has been bad the entire time I've had it.

Front steering issues turned out to be loose upper control arm butterfly bolts. Fixed that and put it on an alignment rack last thursday where i noticed I can only get 3 degrees of caster in the front right and 6 degrees of caster is the least I can get in the front left? Strange but it doesnt bother me that much. Making sure those top bolts are TIGHT is a big deal, I might need to put some grippy washers in there if it ever slips again.

Rear sway bar was causing me to be a little tail happy. Removing it resulted in much much better handling overall. It also allowed me to run more camber in the rear as the sway bar mount brackets were hitting the car causing my alignment to change on me randomly in the rear as well.

Fiddling around with the idea of retarding the exhaust cams as soon as I get the motor running better as a little extra power would be really nice... but I am picking up the F23 trans for the upcomming LS swap onto my spare cradle tomorrow so I'm not sure I'll ever devote the time required to the cam fiddling. I'm also fairly intimidated to do the cam timing, but I still have my old cracked block motor to practice on before I do so.

Brakes are still incredible. Had the car at Mid Ohio this last weekend and at Gingerman raceway in michigan a month ago. Mid ohio gave me a chance to push over 130mph in 5th gear, and I still had no issues pushing the brake zone as deep as I would in any car.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 08-03-2020).]

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Will
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Report this Post08-04-2020 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Front steering issues turned out to be loose upper control arm butterfly bolts. Fixed that and put it on an alignment rack last thursday where i noticed I can only get 3 degrees of caster in the front right and 6 degrees of caster is the least I can get in the front left? Strange but it doesnt bother me that much. Making sure those top bolts are TIGHT is a big deal, I might need to put some grippy washers in there if it ever slips again.

Rear sway bar was causing me to be a little tail happy. Removing it resulted in much much better handling overall. It also allowed me to run more camber in the rear as the sway bar mount brackets were hitting the car causing my alignment to change on me randomly in the rear as well.



It may have gone for a front shunt. Inspect your front suspension & crossmember for this: http://realfierotech.com/vi...php?p=158366#p158366

Also, fully adjustable upper control arms aren't too hard to build.

Are you interested in spherical bearings for your front lower control arm pivots?

Did the car have the factory '88 sway bar end link brackets?
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post08-04-2020 03:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


It may have gone for a front shunt. Inspect your front suspension & crossmember for this: http://realfierotech.com/vi...php?p=158366#p158366

Also, fully adjustable upper control arms aren't too hard to build.

Are you interested in spherical bearings for your front lower control arm pivots?

Did the car have the factory '88 sway bar end link brackets?


I am always interested spherical bushings. They are better for racing in every situation. There is a bunch of front right damage, so i'll bend on it to straighten things out a bit.

It used to have a factory 88 sway bar in the rear, all factory stuff, hurt my ability to push the struts in for camber too so removing it is great.

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Report this Post08-05-2020 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since you're interested in spherical bearings, check this out: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/099464.html
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post08-13-2020 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Under the honda bridge at Mid Ohio
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Report this Post08-13-2020 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cool
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post08-17-2020 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Had the local alternator shop rebuild my dead alternator last week with a 1 wire alternator. He said that I was running the regulator at 12v but I should have been running it at 4v? I was pretty confused but he was really sure the 1 wire regulator was what I needed so $100+ later I am good to go. He did say that the leaking valve cover breather I had was the primary cause of killing it....

Sold the 9 second car this weekend with most of the go fast bits on it... so thats a thing that happened. I also had to put the old "regular tie rod end" rack from the road race car back into the drag car before I sold it. The Baer bump steer tie rods are pretty cool, and cost a staggering $250 so I should be using them. I still have some high speed stability issues to find too, but honestly I'm starting to blame the wheel bearings, so a email is being sent to Rodney today to see if he will sell me some bearings for the front that will hold up for the 88.
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Report this Post08-17-2020 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm working on '88 front knuckles that accept Corvette wheel bearings.

Also, what Baer tie rod ends are you referring to?

Where do we look for 9 sec Fiero action now?
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Report this Post08-19-2020 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is the Baer tie rod setup I ordered. Its basically just a custom kit. price is per end (ouch).


6250030 2.600" x M14-1.5RH x 5/8-18RH $42.95
6840009 Tracker Tie-Rod Heim Joint $23.90
6190010 General Motors Tracker Tie-Rod Pin $39.90
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Report this Post08-19-2020 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

This is the Baer tie rod setup I ordered. Its basically just a custom kit. price is per end (ouch).

6250030 2.600" x M14-1.5RH x 5/8-18RH $42.95
6840009 Tracker Tie-Rod Heim Joint $23.90
6190010 General Motors Tracker Tie-Rod Pin $39.90


Cool, thanks!

So I guess the 6190010 has the right taper for the tie rod end boss on the Fiero knuckle? You checked that carefully when you put it together, right?
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Report this Post08-19-2020 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

I'm working on '88 front knuckles that accept Corvette wheel bearings.

Also, what Baer tie rod ends are you referring to?

Where do we look for 9 sec Fiero action now?


If its a drop knuckle and supports common rotor upgrades it would be something I am interested in for sure. I'm curious with how much meat is in my current knuckles.
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Report this Post08-19-2020 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Cool, thanks!

So I guess the 6190010 has the right taper for the tie rod end boss on the Fiero knuckle? You checked that carefully when you put it together, right?


Its right enough that it goes in very snugly, yet still comes out without much of a fuss. i did not bust out the trig and dial calipers.
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Report this Post08-20-2020 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

If its a drop knuckle and supports common rotor upgrades it would be something I am interested in for sure. I'm curious with how much meat is in my current knuckles.


I'm developing the design with an eye toward throwing it over the fence to Coleman to make.
They have a "custom spindle" program. I've already had them make my custom drum-in-hat parking brake rear rotor hats.
http://www.colemanracing.co...-We-Build-It-W9.aspx

Coleman's assembly methods typically use a bolt on upper ball joint boss. Since all years of Fiero knuckles/spindles are quite short from lower ball joint to upper ball joint, there isn't much room to move the stock bearing up to make it a lowering knuckle, and there's even less room to move a larger cartridge like the C5/6/7 Corvette units up. It can be done, but the upper ball joint boss starts getting... more elaborate.

I'm looking at 12 3/16 racing rotors like Wilwood 160-2900 & 160-2901, but the caliper mounts will also accept stock C5 Corvette fronts, although there may need to be a simple intermediate bracket... I haven't finished the design yet.

There's very little meat for an overbore in the stock '88 Fiero knuckle.
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Report this Post08-20-2020 09:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Its right enough that it goes in very snugly, yet still comes out without much of a fuss. i did not bust out the trig and dial calipers.


Measuring a taper with calipers basically doesn't work anyway.

I was actually asking if you inspected it carefully to make sure there wasn't a gap around the small end when the big end was seated or vice versa.
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post08-20-2020 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Will:


I'm developing the design with an eye toward throwing it over the fence to Coleman to make.
They have a "custom spindle" program. I've already had them make my custom drum-in-hat parking brake rear rotor hats.
http://www.colemanracing.co...-We-Build-It-W9.aspx

Coleman's assembly methods typically use a bolt on upper ball joint boss. Since all years of Fiero knuckles/spindles are quite short from lower ball joint to upper ball joint, there isn't much room to move the stock bearing up to make it a lowering knuckle, and there's even less room to move a larger cartridge like the C5/6/7 Corvette units up. It can be done, but the upper ball joint boss starts getting... more elaborate.

I'm looking at 12 3/16 racing rotors like Wilwood 160-2900 & 160-2901, but the caliper mounts will also accept stock C5 Corvette fronts, although there may need to be a simple intermediate bracket... I haven't finished the design yet.

There's very little meat for an overbore in the stock '88 Fiero knuckle.


I am running the old helm knuckles so we will see. The bolt pattern is likely the scariest part.
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post08-23-2020 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've been running Porterfield R4 pads on my 3.4 TDC 88 Fiero track car for years in stock calipers on 12" C4 rotors. The R4 pads are great. Skip the R4-S, they can't handle the heat. The calipers still suck of course.

Porterfield will also make pads for you with any of their compounds on any backing plate. Just call them.

I discovered the Willwood pad interchange a while back and keep a set around pre-modified as spares but haven't had a chance to try them on track yet.

What tire sizes and compounds are you running? What are your spring rates?
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darkhorizon
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Report this Post08-24-2020 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Steven Snyder:

I've been running Porterfield R4 pads on my 3.4 TDC 88 Fiero track car for years in stock calipers on 12" C4 rotors. The R4 pads are great. Skip the R4-S, they can't handle the heat. The calipers still suck of course.

Porterfield will also make pads for you with any of their compounds on any backing plate. Just call them.

I discovered the Willwood pad interchange a while back and keep a set around pre-modified as spares but haven't had a chance to try them on track yet.

What tire sizes and compounds are you running? What are your spring rates?


255 RE71re square. The front is really stiff, probably 10k, and the rears are probably a 6-8k, but I am not sure, I cant get the spring rates off them.... maybe I'll ask the previous owner.
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KurtAKX
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Report this Post08-27-2020 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


I'm developing the design with an eye toward throwing it over the fence to Coleman to make.
They have a "custom spindle" program. I've already had them make my custom drum-in-hat parking brake rear rotor hats.
http://www.colemanracing.co...-We-Build-It-W9.aspx



What's the ballpark $$ for a set of to-spec spindles?
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