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What i hate about the 2.8 60degree V6 motor by longjonsilver
Started on: 05-03-2020 12:41 PM
Replies: 24 (532 views)
Last post by: longjonsilver on 05-21-2020 10:24 AM
longjonsilver
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i have a 2.8 V6 in my 1992 S10, and i currently have 8 degrees of advance. The book says 10 degrees and some guys say 11 degrees, but i can't find anywhere that tells me how to adjust the distributor. i can find no hold down bolt, and i can't find anywhere on the internet that will tell me. Its soooo easy on the Duke, but the 60 degree V6 has the distributor just in front of the firewall.

WHERE IS THE HOLD DOWN BOLT?

thanks

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

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NW-Fiero
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Report this Post05-03-2020 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NW-FieroSend a Private Message to NW-FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Best I can find on You Tube...



Begin with the #1 piston at top dead center on the compression stroke. Position your distributor and rotor to match up to the #1 plug wire. If you look under the glove box under the carpet there is a single wire with a disconnect in it; locate the tan wire with black stripe under the dash on the passenger side it should be taped to the harness unplug the inline connector and esc will be disabled for setting the timing. If you do not unplug this wire it will never time correctly. With this wire unplugged time is just like a normal vehicle. Just remember to turn the engine off re-plug the wire and then let it idle for a few minutes. Turn the engine off, restart it and then you should be good to go. Cranking it and letting it idle gives the computer time to reset itself.

.

------------------
Mark
' 85 2m6 3.4PR
In the Great Northwest!

[This message has been edited by NW-Fiero (edited 05-03-2020).]

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Blacktree
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Report this Post05-03-2020 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
At the base of the distributer, there's a V-shaped metal piece (the distributer hold-down). The bolt is in the middle of it.

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cvxjet
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Report this Post05-03-2020 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have never had any problem finding the distributor mounting bolt- It is right at the base of the distributor.....But there are a lot of things in the way.

Here are some pictures to help........



[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 05-03-2020).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-05-2020 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't hate these engines too much. Some of them are still running fine after 32-35 years and 200K miles.
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-05-2020 03:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

I have never had any problem finding the distributor mounting bolt- It is right at the base of the distributor.....But there are a lot of things in the way.




One of the reasons I removed the coolant lines to the TB was to facilitate easier access to the distributor.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post05-05-2020 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The engine does LOOK better also without those lines- but in colder climes they might be necesary......

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css9450
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Report this Post05-05-2020 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by longjonsilver:

i have a 2.8 V6 in my 1992 S10.... the 60 degree V6 has the distributor just in front of the firewall.



Now imagine doing the same job on a full size car with a V8.... You'd probably have to climb up on the engine to reach all the way back there!

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Will
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Report this Post05-06-2020 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Don't hate these engines too much. Some of them are still running fine after 32-35 years and 200K miles.


After replacing rod bearings and a broken timing chain and removing a waterpump seized to the block and replacing the valve cover gaskets 14 times, carrying an extra ignition module and exhaust manifold bolts and gaskets in the car the entire time--and USING them.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-06-2020 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


After replacing rod bearings and a broken timing chain and removing a water pump seized to the block and replacing the valve cover gaskets 14 times, carrying an extra ignition module and exhaust manifold bolts and gaskets in the car the entire time--and USING them.


Sorry to hear that you've had a bad experience. Sounds like you were just unlucky. I've owned many Fieros and while I'm not thrilled with the 2.8L's performance, they all proved reliable. Last I read you are doing a Northstar build. Not to rag on your work, but that engine, pre-2005 has a terrible reputation for head gasket failures and reliability. Apparently the problem was that GM used faulty fine threaded headbolts that pulled out of the aluminum block. That was later remedied using longer course thread head small block bolts and threadserts. While that engine has plenty of power potential I am hesitant to use as the 4T80 is huge, heavy and a very difficult fit

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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Will
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Report this Post05-06-2020 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LOL K.
Nice to see you pay attention.
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Thanks, guys. i managed to get a socket on the bolt - 15mm. Had to use a swivel on an extension, but couldn't put enuf pressure on the bolt to keep the socket from slipping off. i went in thru the right side of the distributor. If only there were some way to get in thru the back. Cvxjet posted a pic of a wrench on the bolt. Where could i buy such a wrench?

jon

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

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Report this Post05-08-2020 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:


Sorry to hear that you've had a bad experience. Sounds like you were just unlucky. I've owned many Fieros and while I'm not thrilled with the 2.8L's performance, they all proved reliable. Last I read you are doing a Northstar build. Not to rag on your work, but that engine, pre-2005 has a terrible reputation for head gasket failures and reliability. Apparently the problem was that GM used faulty fine threaded headbolts that pulled out of the aluminum block. That was later remedied using longer course thread head small block bolts and threadserts. While that engine has plenty of power potential I am hesitant to use as the 4T80 is huge, heavy and a very difficult fit



Having owned a few Northstar cars, I would suggest that the problem has been overhyped, especially for the first gen engines.
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Report this Post05-08-2020 12:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by longjonsilver:

Cvxjet posted a pic of a wrench on the bolt. Where could i buy such a wrench?

jon



https://www.amazon.com/Perf...id=1588956479&sr=8-1

Would be handy if these were sold in stores.... Maybe some stores have them, but I've not seen them.

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Report this Post05-08-2020 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Having owned a few Northstar cars, I would suggest that the problem has been overhyped, especially for the first gen engines.


Just like the 20 minute starter change has been mischaracterized by people who barely know which end of a wrench to use.
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longjonsilver
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quote
Originally posted by css9450:


https://www.amazon.com/Perf...id=1588956479&sr=8-1

Would be handy if these were sold in stores.... Maybe some stores have them, but I've not seen them.


Thanks, that's what i needed.
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Report this Post05-09-2020 07:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:


https://www.amazon.com/Perf...id=1588956479&sr=8-1

Would be handy if these were sold in stores.... Maybe some stores have them, but I've not seen them.


I have a distributor wrench shaped somewhat like a Z. All one piece. I got it at a parts store years ago. Advance still sells them. Pricey.

https://shop.advanceautopar...distributor%20wrench

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Report this Post05-09-2020 09:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DimeMachineSend a Private Message to DimeMachineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is what I hate about teh 2.8 60 degree engine.

Back in the mid 90's I upgraded my car from the 84 base 2.5 to an 86 2.8 V6. Going from 96 to 135 HP was wonderful (cant believe I am saying that in 2020 where even grandmas grocery getter has 230 hp) and it gave owners of the Fiero a taste of performance (finally) and dreams of what might come next. I had several 2.8's in Fieros through the years and I had two of them spin rod bearings and one of them have a pesky intake manifold gasket leak creating a not so lubricating creamy tan oil mix.... I came to know that 2.8's were not the most reliable engine around, but they sure were a lot more fun than the very reliable IRON DUKE 2.5.

Sorry, the title of this thread go me thinking.....

------------------
84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.85 at 114mph

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quote
Originally posted by longjonsilver:


Thanks, that's what i needed.


I think you can cut a wrench and an extension to make one yourself.

I've seen people welding wrenches with success. In this case it should be especially applicable, since you don't have to torque a distributor bolt very hard, the risk of breakage is low.
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Report this Post05-09-2020 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetClick Here to Email cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DimeMachine:

Here is what I hate about teh 2.8 60 degree engine.

Back in the mid 90's I upgraded my car from the 84 base 2.5 to an 86 2.8 V6. Going from 96 to 135 HP was wonderful (cant believe I am saying that in 2020 where even grandmas grocery getter has 230 hp) and it gave owners of the Fiero a taste of performance (finally) and dreams of what might come next. I had several 2.8's in Fieros through the years and I had two of them spin rod bearings and one of them have a pesky intake manifold gasket leak creating a not so lubricating creamy tan oil mix.... I came to know that 2.8's were not the most reliable engine around, but they sure were a lot more fun than the very reliable IRON DUKE 2.5.

Sorry, the title of this thread go me thinking.....


I owned my 1985 SE V6 since new- ordered it from the factory and paid $11, 609 out the door; The V6 ran strong and good, but the 4speed trany lost second gear in 1998, so I swapped in a Getrag 5 speed- and while doing that I installed a 3.4 F-body long block......Always changed the oil, never had any milkshake......

The original 2.8 V6 had 130,000 on it when I pulled it....The 3.4 now has 65,000 on it since the swap- and had 30,000 on the long block originally......Only problems I have are a bit of oil leaking from the edge of the oil pan and a slight coolant leak up around the Thermo housing.

What I am saying is I never really had any problems at all- but if I had to deal with a used Fiero with a PO who did not take care of it, I could see problems happening- that is with any car/Engine......I think the GM 60 V6 is a good and reliable engine. I also have a 3900 in my 2008 Van- with 70,000 on it- only problem was a MAF that was causing problems so I swapped in a new one at 60,000.

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claude dalpe
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Report this Post05-09-2020 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for claude dalpeClick Here to Email claude dalpeSend a Private Message to claude dalpeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What I am saying is I never really had any problems at all- but if I had to deal with a used Fiero with a PO who did not take care of it, I could see problems happening- that is with any car/Engine.

Completely agree with you cvxjet

[This message has been edited by claude dalpe (edited 05-09-2020).]

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Here is Charlie, my 92 S10:



Rusty, but i managed to replace a cab mount, and the rocker panel on the drivers side, and "fix" the rust holes to pass safety here in Nova Scotia. Gonna do some more this summer or next before next safety. Anyway, people say that he is too rusty to work on and just get another truck, but Charlie has been too reliable to just throw him away. So i put some $1300 in PARTS into Charlie and he is still on the road, with 182,000 MILES on him. One alternator, one water pump, three radiators, tensioner. Why throw away a truck that runs great? but mileage is poor - 14 mpg. Thats why i want to set the timing where it should be. Yes, i know how to disable the computer by disconnecting the wire..... so that i can set initial advance. i plan on getting good fenders where most of the rust is, and repairing the cab mounts and then spraying the whole truck with grease undercoating. Gotta get a y pipe when i'm down in N Carolina this summer, cuz he doesn't run as well with exhaust leaks, i guess exhaust scavenging is big with this design.

Thanks for the heads up on making my own wrench by welding. i can weld, even if sometimes it isn't pretty, and i have some old wrenches that i can use for the purpose. Save some money. Thanks again.

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

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css9450
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Report this Post05-10-2020 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice truck; I had a '91 for several years. 2.8 with 5-speed and TBI injection.

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longjonsilver
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Yeah, Charlie has the 5 speed. i changed the fluid in the tranny this last fall. Old fluid was brownish, new fluid is red.

jon

------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

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longjonsilver
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Report this Post05-21-2020 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for longjonsilverClick Here to visit longjonsilver's HomePageClick Here to Email longjonsilverSend a Private Message to longjonsilverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, i figured out the timing. A friend loaned me his timing wrench but it was 9/16 and that is too small to fit on the 15mm bolt. SOOOOOOOO

i figured that Chevy didn't care about mechanics, but profitability, and if ya gotta pay at the dealer well, thats just more profit for chevy. So they put the distributor in the hardest spot to get to and in addition they put a bunch of crap around it (red circle) to make it impossible without removing the aforementioned crap. Well i decided to remove it once and for all and relocate the coil and some vacuum thingy. But first i had to get the bracket thingy out of the way.



A sawzall and a grinder made short work of that bugger. Gone and good riddance!

A shorty 15mm 12point box wrench did the trick on the bolt. The trick was to put the wrench UNDER the wire loom and use the loom to hold down the wrench so it wouldn't slip. About 12 turns of the wrench allowed the distributor to be moved COUNTERCLOCKWISE to advance the ignition. Still have to check with the light.

What to do about the all crap in the way? Well the coil, i turned around and bolted it to the unused cruise control hole on another bracket, (green circle) and the vacuum thingy i zip tied it to another thingy on the firewall (fuchia circle). Easy Peasy.



We move stuff around all the time on our Fiero swaps so why not on Charlie, my work truck? Hez gonna need a new distributor at some point if the good running 2.8 keeps going, so why not make it easy next time?

jon

Edit: all part of the front end job - i put on good fenders and a radiator support from the junkyard, and why not throw in some good headlight buckets? All that stuff got painted with used motor oil, and then the critical parts got painted with wheel bearing grease - rubbed in to mix it with the oil and make a paste. Stays put.
------------------
Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.

Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.

I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!

[This message has been edited by longjonsilver (edited 05-21-2020).]

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