Ok i was contacted back a few day back about doing a engine swap for a person who has a 355 kit car but it has the 2.8 and he wants it to sound more like a 355 Ferrari and felt the 350 chevy or the Ls engine would be nice but not give him exactly the sound he wanted so he had seen my youtube video and liked the sound and asked me if i would do a swap and i suggested the VW passat 4.0L W8 engine as it is only 16 inches long due to the cylinder layout and it sounds great with 270 hp and even though he has not committed with any funds yet i thought i would get started as i already have a running W8 in a passat with a bad transmission and a spare engine cradle so even if he does not come through i can always buy a car and install it .
I want this so badly.... I have always loved the thought of the W8 engine in a Fiero. It's compact, powerful, and relatively reliable.. It would be a great engine in any Fiero, but would be amazing in my GT.
the only problem i see is the wiring because i did the A8 engine and i will use many of the same things i leaned on that install and the W8 engine is 5 inches shorter than the Audi 4.2 engine
no it will be a longitudinal install you end up losing the bottom of the trunk due to the transmission running under it i used 2001 Audi A6 wheel bearings and hubs in my last install with the Audi 4.2 V8 and a 2000 passat transmission with 2000 passat front axles no mods needed to the axles you must have the fiero knuckles machined to take the Audi wheel bearing assembly and the audi wheel hubs need wheel bolt pattern redrilled to 5x100 and the center needs to be turned down for the wheels to fit but then you can buy repair parts right from any auto parts store so no custom axle to wait on if you have a problem i use the 012 transaxle from a 1.8 turbo passat it has a lower final drive but the engine should like that as it is a higher revving engine
Dave McClug did the Volkswagon swap and said that it wasn't easy. His engine did not sound like a Ferrari but it did sound more European. There should be a build thread in the construction zone.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Well i did the Audi V8 in my car and i did not find mounting it really hard but the wiring was a bit harder it did take a lot of thought on how i wanted to do things but i am the type of person that just cuts something out of the way and weld back in what i need to make it work i don't dwell on problems i do research and solve them like using A6 wheel bearings and hubs in fiero knuckles by having the knuckles machined for the A6 bearings and the hubs machined for the 5 X 100 bolt pattern so i suppose it depends on who is doing it as to how hard they find it to do and i don't find it hard but a challenge and that is fun to me
I don't know why i don't feel it is that big of a deal putting the W8 engine in as most of the things i did on the Audi 4.2 v8 will work right on this engine and even work better as the engine is 5 inches shorter i will use the same manual transmission out of a 2000 passat so it will be a longitudinal install i should have about 4 to 5 inches from the firewall to the front of the engine and the axles should line up unlike the audi v8 install so those are all a plus and the W8 had a standard transmission so i can use the stock ecu but getting the wiring right is a bit tougher but not impossible
I don't know why i don't feel it is that big of a deal putting the W8 engine in as most of the things i did on the Audi 4.2 v8 will work right on this engine and even work better as the engine is 5 inches shorter i will use the same manual transmission out of a 2000 passat so it will be a longitudinal install i should have about 4 to 5 inches from the firewall to the front of the engine and the axles should line up unlike the audi v8 install so those are all a plus and the W8 had a standard transmission so i can use the stock ecu but getting the wiring right is a bit tougher but not impossible
Why not go W12 from a Phaeton or A8, then? The A8 ones are even dry sump, as I heard it.
i would love to do the W12 Will i just don't have that much money right now but that is a fueter project and i have a W8 that i know runs i still need to finish my SC 4.2 audi powered fiero i have the engine and drivetrain done but need to finish up on the body because i just had to chop the top like a dummy but it sure looks good
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 07-22-2019).]
no i just have time to work on my house trying o get it ready for sale then i am moving back to FL as i am sick of being cold in the winter but once i get settled in then i will start on some projects again
He bought the car complete with a bad trans. The cars are pretty cheap. They aren't Fiero cheap but they're depreciated used car cheap. BTW, the W12 is barely longer than the W8 and costs around $2500 starting I think. Seriously, it's barely any longer.
He bought the car complete with a bad trans. The cars are pretty cheap. They aren't Fiero cheap but they're depreciated used car cheap. BTW, the W12 is barely longer than the W8 and costs around $2500 starting I think. Seriously, it's barely any longer.
What cars come with a w12 that we could harvest reasonably? I never even considered a w12 Fiero swap because I had assumed the cost would be astounding. Also, what transmission can it be mated to? I am REALLY liking the VW DSG. The new dry clutch version supposedly is rated for 440foot pounds of torque and has 7 speeds with lightning fast shifts.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 11-26-2020).]
The VW Phaeton had the W12. Cool factor is high and probably never been done. 12 cylinders just rev forever. They're also a couple hundred heavier than the LSx I'd say. The Audi used it most likely. Probably in the S8? Not sure what they bolt up to.
Found this:
After 17 years on the market, Audi has sounded the death knell on the A8 W12. Audi R&D honcho Peter Mertens — the same exec who suggested the end of the R8 — told Car and Driver at the Geneva Motor Show that the new 2019 A8 "is going to be the last installation" of the 6.0-liter 12-cylinder. That won't affect our market since the Audi retired the W12 here in 2017, and the engine won't reappear in the 2019 model. Our top end will be the A8 60 with a 4.0-liter, twin-turbo V8 making 460 horsepower and 486 pound-feet of torque. The W12 isn't dead yet — Audi gets the engine from Bentley, and Bentley has no plans to quit it.
Introduced to the market in 2001 for Europe and Asia in the first-generation A8, we didn't get the W12 until 2005, in the second-gen luxo-sedan. Back then, the oddball motor built up from the the VR6 in the Volkswagen Corrado made 444 horsepower and 430 pound-feet of torque. Today's Audi W12 stands at 585 hp and 627 lb-ft, detuned from the 633 hp and 620 lb-ft it makes in the Bentley Continental GT.
[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 11-26-2020).]
The VW Phaeton had the W12. Cool factor is high and probably never been done. 12 cylinders just rev forever. They're also a couple hundred heavier than the LSx I'd say. The Audi used it most likely. Probably in the S8? Not sure what they bolt up to.
Found this:
After 17 years on the market, Audi has sounded the death knell on the A8 W12. Audi R&D honcho Peter Mertens — the same exec who suggested the end of the R8 — told Car and Driver at the Geneva Motor Show that the new 2019 A8 "is going to be the last installation" of the 6.0-liter 12-cylinder. That won't affect our market since the Audi retired the W12 here in 2017, and the engine won't reappear in the 2019 model. Our top end will be the A8 60 with a 4.0-liter, twin-turbo V8 making 460 horsepower and 486 pound-feet of torque. The W12 isn't dead yet — Audi gets the engine from Bentley, and Bentley has no plans to quit it.
Introduced to the market in 2001 for Europe and Asia in the first-generation A8, we didn't get the W12 until 2005, in the second-gen luxo-sedan. Back then, the oddball motor built up from the the VR6 in the Volkswagen Corrado made 444 horsepower and 430 pound-feet of torque. Today's Audi W12 stands at 585 hp and 627 lb-ft, detuned from the 633 hp and 620 lb-ft it makes in the Bentley Continental GT.
As much as I would LOVE to participate in a project like a W12, I still think it would be very difficult to get my hands on? Also all of the unknowns like required electronics and emissions equipment? (Out here in the California I would want to be able to drive it legally) Believe me, if a person asked me to help with a project like this and came up with a donor car for the swap,.....I would help BUT I doubt that the expense is something that can be overlooked. If a donor can be acquired at a reasonable price, it would be an AMAZING swap. Until then a w8 would be super cool but the LS is without a doubt the gold standard,....for me. The sound of a vr6 and w8 is OUTSTANDING, but a Nissan 370Z sounds just as great if not better and the parts are MUCH easier to get and modify.
btw, your car and swap is what drew me into Fieros. Yours is the one on Youtube with the adjustable pedals and such? That's what started it for me. He did what with an LS?
The W12 is an extreme sort of project, and only makes sense as one of those. It's not a money sense thing. It's a heavier engine and probably with it's unique troubles. The LNF is an attractive sensible swap, but next to a complete big engine is the cool factor close? Like I say, the donor Fiero is negligible to the cost of a swap project (or can be). It's a throw away price.
CA is effed on car legislation. Much of the nation doesn't even have inspections. It's not like we all have junkers here running around with parts falling off. You see that in the poor part of towns obviously, but check engine lights are commonly lit with a car of any age. Mine is lit due to an air bag ground on one of the many air bags.
Originally posted by sourmash:Like I say, the donor Fiero is negligible to the cost of a swap project (or can be). It's a throw away price.
On that note, my powertrain cost me about 13x the purchase price of my Fiero, so your statement is true... at least this time. And I had a free longblock to start from.
Nice 88 GT Fieros will run for 10k-15k, so hopefully you don't have to spend 13x on its powertrain to get it up to your tastes. Though if you have the wallet for it, that's OK.
[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 11-26-2020).]
I don't have a really nice 88 that's done, but I bought a couple of project ones. They were really cheap to acquire and were purchased here from people who were moving out of the hobby. Both are projects. The expensive one (a GT 5 speed) was advertised for $3000 with zero mile Mr Mikes seats, a newly assembled 3800sc short block with newly machined or newly purchased hipo parts, ported heads, fieroguru big brake swaps, zero mile tires and rims, Beretta 5 spd, Fiero Fglass scoops, gen V charger, small pulley setup, etc.. Oh, he said I was the only one to get as far as making an offer when I finally decided to contact him. I bought an 88 chop project too. Wish I had bought the vacant project house across the street also, but it was beyond reach. It wouldn't have vinyl siding on it.
[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 11-26-2020).]
btw, your car and swap is what drew me into Fieros. Yours is the one on Youtube with the adjustable pedals and such? That's what started it for me. He did what with an LS?
The W12 is an extreme sort of project, and only makes sense as one of those. It's not a money sense thing. It's a heavier engine and probably with it's unique troubles. The LNF is an attractive sensible swap, but next to a complete big engine is the cool factor close? Like I say, the donor Fiero is negligible to the cost of a swap project (or can be). It's a throw away price.
CA is effed on car legislation. Much of the nation doesn't even have inspections. It's not like we all have junkers here running around with parts falling off. You see that in the poor part of towns obviously, but check engine lights are commonly lit with a car of any age. Mine is lit due to an air bag ground on one of the many air bags.
Yes my 88GT has electronically adjustable pedals. They came out of the Malibu with it's dash and steering wheel. The electronics that I put into the dash are from the Monte Carlo and its LS4. This is how I do my engine swaps. I do not attempt to fool the engine controls, I just roll with it. The Smog Ref seems to like it that way. The adjustable pedals are amazing on long drives. I can only move around so much in such a small space, like a Fiero. But to be able to move the pedals back out of the way for more leg room REALLY helps. I would do the very same type of thing for any engine swap I do. If the donor car has some cool features, I just put them into the Fiero along with the engine swap. I can imagine the w12 or w8 having some cool features too.
this is some of the projects I want to do are the W8 and W12 engines and this Manta Mirage Kit Car but they are hard to find as they are no longer made but i have wanted one since 1979 when I was 17 and saw this in Kit Car Magazine
Although this is an interesting engine, what is the benefit of the W8 over an LFX ? The LFX puts out similar torque and 50 more hp and is 110 pounds lighter.
this is some of the projects I want to do are the W8 and W12 engines and this Manta Mirage Kit Car but they are hard to find as they are no longer made but i have wanted one since 1979 when I was 17 and saw this in Kit Car Magazine
Love this car and always wanted to buy / build one. There is an active Facebook page for the Manta group and on occasion one pops up for sale.
Ah yes the Hardcastle and Mccormick car was a Montage I would take ether I see one is for sale on a forum for $9500 it needs to be put together but right now I have zero funds to spend on it but as soon as my house sells and if it has not sold I will buy it
