First of all it's a 1988 2.8 fiero GT, I was taking it for a spin a few days ago. Next thing I know I'm out of gas. It turned it back on for me a few times as I tried to make it home and I made it, barely. Luckily, I only got maybe .4 miles away before I ran out. I let the car sit in front of my house for a couple of days before I walked to get gas and actually tried starting it back up.
In those couple of days I did some manifold work, which may or not be the source of the problem. I'm not entirely sure, but I'll get to that in a bit. I'm thinking it's either the spark or the fuel. or both? I've had the car for a couple of years and I've ran out of gas a couple of times before. It always turns back on though, after I put some more gas in. Until now, I put about 7 gallons in the car today and it still doesn't start, cranks really nicely just as always but no start.
I was thinking that there's no spark because I sprayed some starting fluid on the inner surface of the throttle body but it still wouldn't start. It's been raining alot, I was thinking maybe the rain got on my battery and burned something out and now theres no spark? I wanted to check the spark plugs but I'm not sure how and don't want to break anything. I was tugging on the rubber cover for the spark plug but didn't want to rip it so I left it. I did have the black vent off that goes over the battery, I heard if you leave that off in snow it can cause damage to your electrical system, does the same apply to rain? I was also thinking that maybe the fuel pump sucked up a bunch of garbage from the bottom of the fuel tank and now theres no fuel pressure? Maybe both?
I was also thinking that it might be because I currently have two different exhaust manifolds. I personally don't think this is why but maybe, you never know I guess. I'm trying to get the car to pass the smog check here in California and when the car ran out of gas I was just finishing up changing out the aftermarket parts in the engine bay to stock. The reason I was taking it for a spin was to try out the stock intake I had just installed. A few days ago when the car ran out of gas the car was running with fiero store sprint exhaust manifolds. The one in the rear has a huge crack.
The last couple of days while my car was sitting in front of my house without gas, I swapped the rear manifold, I took out the cracked fiero store sprint exhaust manifold and put in a stock one. I didn't change the front exhaust manifold though, so right now I have a fiero store sprint exhaust manifold in the front and stock in the rear. The reasons I only put a stock exhaust manifold on the rear and left the fiero store sprint exhaust manifold on the front are because I don't think the smog guy is going to notice it, or I'm hoping at least. If he notices it by eye or the machine picks up that something isn't right I can always just change the thing. It's pass or don't pay so I figured it's worth a shot. It's not cracked or anything, and it seems like alot of work to change, I've read a few threads on that dreaded front exhaust manifold.
I was thinking it would run OK with two different exhaust manifolds right? Maybe just sound different? Maybe it'll still pass the smog? I do have the stock one that goes to the front, like I said I can always change it if I don't pass the smog check. Anyway at this point in the story I swapped out the rear exhaust manifold it took me 2 days, I had to wait 1 day for my local auto parts store to get the gaskets. The engine bay is 95 percent stock except for that one fiero store sprint front exhaust manifold but you can't even see that thing so I'm feeling excited. I swapped the rear manifold so in my mind theoretically my car should be ready to pass the smog so I went and got gas, put it in and what a let down, cranks but won't start. Just my luck, it decides it doesn't want to start right when it's ready to get smog checked.
When I bought the car the tags were good until July, so it's been a little over 5 months since I've driven this car around legally, anywhere further than around the block that is. Usually I just search around and read on here but I felt like I might as well post something this time because why not? If I try to fix this myself I'd probably spend way too much time and effort and cash on things that don't even need fixing, so here I am. It's never given me any problems in the 2 years I've had it, I always keep up with changing all the fluids and stuff like that. I'm not trying to spend too much on things that aren't broke, I just want it to turn on so I can smog it and enjoy driving the car again because I love this car, and I wanna take my girl friend to the movies.
It's always turned on and ran like a champ, I feel bad for leaving the vent open and letting the battery get rained on, and letting the car run out of gas too but hey, you live and you learn right? I'm not sure how to diagnose exactly what needs fixing, and I don't have much tools either, prettymuch just basic stuff. Thanks ahead of time. I hope I didn't make this too long, I'm sure there's some stuff I can probably cut out or that I forgot to mention but I'll be here ready to answer any questions. In the two years I've had the car I've never looked at the spark plugs or the fuel filter, don't really know how to get to them, so I'm not sure how those are looking.
[This message has been edited by 2fast288fierogt (edited 01-13-2017).]
When you run out of gas in a Fiero, you run the risk of over-heating the fuel pump. You should listen for it when you turn the key on...it should run for a few seconds and then turn off. It could be a lot of other things...but that is a start.
That was dizzying to read. Too much info. First start with simple tests. Can you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the ignition to "on" prior to cranking? Don't crank just yet. Is the check engine light turning on with the key in the "on" position?
No check engine light will reveal a failure to communicate with the computer. I recently had this issue and it was related to the fuse box, which took a thorough going-through to correct.
Have you checked the fuses? There are a few that will kill the car if blown, notably the injector fuses. Break out a test light and verify all fuses are good in their corresponding ignition positions.
As for starting fluid, pull the vacuum line off of the intake manifold near the distributor/EGR valve tube area. Use a spray can straw and spray starting fluid into this port for an attempt to start.
Let us know how these simple tests go before we jump to any conclusions.
When the car does not run, crank the starter and watch the tach. If it does not move, there is no primary ignition, which would be either a bad ICM, pickup coil, or ignition coil, or wires and connectors for those items. If the tach does move up a little, say 300 rpm, shoot some starter fluid in the throttle body to see if it fires up. If that happens, you have a fuel delivery problem.
It's a city called ontario, in southern California. I just got in it and checked for fuel pump sounds. I turned the key to accessory mode and I can hear what I'm assuming is the fuel pump for a few seconds and then I hear my fan up front start spinning up. I checked the fuel pump fuse and it looks good. I'm gonna keep checking all the other things you guys are telling me about, thanks again I really appreciate all of the feedback. It is confirmed that yeah I'm pretty sure I'm hearing the fuel pump.
Sorry about that, I'll try to summarize it a little next time. Yes I hear the fuel pump, pretty sure. Yes the check engine light is coming on when I put it in "on mode" I didn't notice it before because my gauge cluster cover doesn't let me see it straight on. Service eng. Soon it sais. I just checked the fuel injector fuses under the driver side dash TBI inj 1 and TBI inj 2 look good. I started checking all of them and bat wdo was no good so I changed it, the rest looked perfect. I can't find one of those little straws but I'm trying it without it. Hold on, when I pull the vacuum line, after I spray do I put it back on to try to start it or leave it off? I tried leaving it off and putting it on it won't start either way. Cranks perfectly though like I said.
quote
Originally posted by viperine:
That was dizzying to read. Too much info. First start with simple tests. Can you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the ignition to "on" prior to cranking? Don't crank just yet. Is the check engine light turning on with the key in the "on" position?
No check engine light will reveal a failure to communicate with the computer. I recently had this issue and it was related to the fuse box, which took a thorough going-through to correct.
Have you checked the fuses? There are a few that will kill the car if blown, notably the injector fuses. Break out a test light and verify all fuses are good in their corresponding ignition positions.
As for starting fluid, pull the vacuum line off of the intake manifold near the distributor/EGR valve tube area. Use a spray can straw and spray starting fluid into this port for an attempt to start.
Let us know how these simple tests go before we jump to any conclusions.
Interesting. I think I know why he did it. When I bought the car the water temp. was getting pretty hot on the 30 minute drive home, then again it was a pretty hot day. The front bumper air vent was covered with all these fog lights. Oval shaped and circle shaped, it was barely getting any air. I took them out and that seemed to fix it. On a side note, That fuse I just replaced did fix my floor lights not sure if it did anything else. . Summer maybe 100 - 110F, At the most.
[This message has been edited by 2fast288fierogt (edited 01-13-2017).]
The front bumper air vent was covered with all these fog lights. Oval shaped and circle shaped, it was barely getting any air. I took them out and that seemed to fix it.
Most of the air for cooling the radiator gets directed up from below the car. That's what the foil under the nose is for. It's still on your car, isn't it?
The fan being wired to come on all the time is a poor band-aid "solution" (except it isn't) for some other issue. We can sort that out after you get your car running.
Hold on, when I pull the vacuum line, after I spray do I put it back on to try to start it or leave it off? I tried leaving it off and putting it on it won't start either way.
So now we're onto no spark. The vacuum fitting won't make a difference on or off, it should fire either way to verify fuel delivery. But not without spark. At this point, Patrick's ICM test would be a good check. You may not have run out of fuel anyway, but had an ignition component failure from the start. You can also double check fuel delivery by looking for a squirt of fuel from the Schrader valve.
Hmmm. I just looked under the nose and I don't think I'm seeing the nose foil. He did have this flat, black, plastic thing covering the whole bottom of the front bumper. I've seen them before but I forgot what they're called. They lay horrizontally under the front bumper and stick out the bottom, front of the bumper about 4 inches or so and there's two rods connected to it and connected to the front of the bumper. Anyway I took that off too. I would like to stop the fan from coming on if the car doesn't need it, but once it's running like you said.
OK I'll squirt the Schrader valve in the morning, I'm goiong to try Patrick's test and I'll get back to you guys ASAP. Thanks, again
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Most of the air for cooling the radiator gets directed up from below the car. That's what the foil under the nose is for. It's still on your car, isn't it?
The fan being wired to come on all the time is a poor band-aid "solution" (except it isn't) for some other issue. We can sort that out after you get your car running.
[This message has been edited by 2fast288fierogt (edited 01-13-2017).]
I see. I just checked and it's missing, you're right. I bet he took it out because it was in the way of that black, plastic, flat piece I was telling you about, with the 2 connecting rods on the front.
[This message has been edited by 2fast288fierogt (edited 01-13-2017).]
My tach bounces off of three and touches four hundred rpms when I crank it. I forgot to mention that.
Ok... shoot some starting fluid into the throttle body while cranking the starter. If it does not respond, you need to work on the secondary ignition...(high voltage), which is plugs and wires, distributor rotor and cap, and another part of the ignition coil. If the engine does run a little, then it's time to work on the fuel delivery.
Ok... shoot some starting fluid into the throttle body while cranking the starter. If it does not respond, you need to work on the secondary ignition...(high voltage), which is plugs and wires, distributor rotor and cap, and another part of the ignition coil. If the engine does run a little, then it's time to work on the fuel delivery.
I tried telling my brother to spray while I cranked, he read the can and said that he'll blow up, so he won't do it. I offered switching places but he refused to turn the key that'll "blow me up". Anyway we did it just sprayed some a split second before cranking. Thanks I'll check all of those things. still not starting.
[This message has been edited by 2fast288fierogt (edited 01-14-2017).]
I tried telling my brother to spray while I cranked, he read the can and said that he'll blow up, so he won't do it. I offered switching places but he refused to turn the key that'll "blow me up". Anyway we did it just sprayed some a split second before cranking. Thanks I'll check all of those things. still not starting.
You should be able to spray a shot into the throttle body, run around an start the car.....and not blow up. If the car does not fire for a second or two, the ignition coil is the next thing.
Up here in the north country we spray that stuff all over the place in the winter time, and I have not seen anybody blow up yet....
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 01-14-2017).]
You should be able to spray a shot into the throttle body, run around an start the car.....and not blow up. If the car does not fire for a second or two, the ignition coil is the next thing.
Up here in the north country we spray that stuff all over the place in the winter time, and I have not seen anybody blow up yet....
Well then thank you phonedawgz I guess haha. I just convinced my brother to crank the engine while I sprayed into tho throttle body. He was hesitant at first and told me to cover my face with something, then I told him about you boys up in the north country and he agreed.
we did it, it sounded like it wanted to turn on. I think it made it crank faster, we may be on the cusp of something here.
[This message has been edited by 2fast288fierogt (edited 01-14-2017).]
IMHO if you had any kind of spark it would have started. I vote for coil.
I bought a duralast gold distributer cap and rotor, installed them, it didn't start. I tried the starting fluid in the manifold and it still didn't start. I also bought six Autolite spark plugs but the old ones are a little rusty so I'm letting the rust buster sit and hopefully it'll help me get them out, maybe tomorrow. Tomorrow I'm going to go pick up a duralast ignition coil and a duralast gold ignition wire set. Hopefully after all that it will start. When I was trying to start it today I think I smelled gas maybe? Not sure. I was pressing the gas to try to get it to start.
[This message has been edited by 2fast288fierogt (edited 01-15-2017).]
You were "pressing the gas"? You mean the gas pedal? What do you think that will actually do? The throttle-body on your engine does not have an accelerator pump. Leave the gas pedal alone when you're starting the car.
You were "pressing the gas"? You mean the gas pedal? What do you think that will actually do? The throttle-body on your engine does not have an accelerator pump. Leave the gas pedal alone when you're starting the car.
I bought a duralast gold distributer cap and rotor, installed them, it didn't start. I tried the starting fluid in the manifold and it still didn't start. I also bought six Autolite spark plugs but the old ones are a little rusty so I'm letting the rust buster sit and hopefully it'll help me get them out, maybe tomorrow. Tomorrow I'm going to go pick up a duralast ignition coil and a duralast gold ignition wire set. Hopefully after all that it will start. When I was trying to start it today I think I smelled gas maybe? Not sure. I was pressing the gas to try to get it to start.
Be suspicious of the 'duralast' brand. It's not high quality stuff and sometimes it's bad when new.
Do you have a multi-meter? The next thing you should check is the ignition coil.... here is a simple test.
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 01-15-2017).]
Be suspicious of the 'duralast' brand. It's not high quality stuff and sometimes it's bad when new.
Do you have a multi-meter? The next thing you should check is the ignition coil.... here is a simple test.
Thanks for the tip. I went ahead and bought a duralast ignition coil put it in. Now the car doesn't even crank right, it just goes RERRR RERR and then turns off. I still haven't put in the new spark plugs or the duralast gold wires. I'll work on changing those out and let you guys know if anything changes. I don't have a multi meter. Thanks again. Should I gap the spark plugs?
[This message has been edited by 2fast288fierogt (edited 01-16-2017).]
I put in the duralast wires, and I hooked up a little power pack to the battery, it usually starts my car right up. It just goes kind of like RERR REAR KSH. The KSH as it turns off. It won't let you crank it anymore than that, it turns itself off. The battery pack usually cranks the car like a champ. Maybe the next thing to buy is just a whole new battery? I'd put the spark plugs in but in not sure about the gappage, and I'd squirt the Schrader but Im not entirely sure if the Schrader is what I think the Schrader is. Is the Schrader under the passenger side of the intake manifold?
Stick with us! We'll get you through! Now it won't even crank? Sorry about that!
In my defense, I don't see how changing the coil could affect cranking. It's conceivable that changing the wires might. Is it possible that at some point you've gotten them hooked up out of order? That could explain a lot. The firing order and plug locations are easy on the Fiero, but it's still possible to get it wrong. That could cause it to crank but not start and also to not crank. The order is 1-2-3-4-5-6, starting from about four o'clock on your distributor and going clockwise. Number one cylinder is the right side of the engine facing the trunk, two is opposite on the bulkhead side of the engine, three is the middle plug facing the trunk, and so on.
Yes, the Shraeder valve it on the top right under the manifold. It looks just like a tire valve.
And what exactly is your connection to Duralast?
Could you post a picture of your distributor with and without the cap? To post pictures on the forum you download PIP, found at the bottom of this page. You may need to resize your images before posting. This can be done through your camera software, an image editor, or a downloaded image resizer.
Sometimes people, or their previous owners, have the distributor in an unusual position.
Stick with us! We'll get you through! Now it won't even crank? Sorry about that!
In my defense, I don't see how changing the coil could affect cranking. It's conceivable that changing the wires might. Is it possible that at some point you've gotten them hooked up out of order? That could explain a lot. The firing order and plug locations are easy on the Fiero, but it's still possible to get it wrong. That could cause it to crank but not start and also to not crank. The order is 1-2-3-4-5-6, starting from about four o'clock on your distributor and going clockwise. Number one cylinder is the right side of the engine facing the trunk, two is opposite on the bulkhead side of the engine, three is the middle plug facing the trunk, and so on.
Yes, the Shraeder valve it on the top right under the manifold. It looks just like a tire valve.
And what exactly is your connection to Duralast?
Could you post a picture of your distributor with and without the cap? To post pictures on the forum you download PIP, found at the bottom of this page. You may need to resize your images before posting. This can be done through your camera software, an image editor, or a downloaded image resizer.
Sometimes people, or their previous owners, have the distributor in an unusual position.
thanks for the words of optimism and don't be sorry, its my fault. I should of took better care of the car. I checked the firing order just like you said, it is easy. Firing order's correct, I tried twisting off the Schrader but I couldn't twist it off with my fingers. I put the car in "on mode" and waited a few seconds then turned it back off, I did that three times. Then I put the car in "on mode" for about 10 seconds and turned it back off. After that I was trying to twist it off but I guess my fingers aren't strong enough.
no connection to duralast haha, I'm just going with the cheapest options.
thanks for showing me how to upload photos, The two photos you requested should be above.
I'd squirt the Schrader but Im not entirely sure if the Schrader is what I think the Schrader is. Is the Schrader under the passenger side of the intake manifold?
I tried twisting off the Schrader but I couldn't twist it off with my fingers.
Yes, it looks like a tire air valve with a cap on it. If you've got weak digits, use a set of small pliers.
That's a quick video of me trying to start the car. In the morning I'll squirt the Schrader valve and let you guys know if I have any fuel pressure or not.
I can go to the auto parts store and buy a part tomorrow, just let me know what might help.
The red cables are a grounding system that came with the car when I purchased it.
[This message has been edited by 2fast288fierogt (edited 01-18-2017).]
