I have an 86 that had a front sway bar mounted on the rear. A mechanic removed and kept it and all hardware, so I've had to secure new stuff.
I have everything except end links of the correct length. Off the shelf links are too long. I need to know the length bolt and spacer sleeve that's being used that will position the eyelet of the bar as close to parallel to the control arm as possible.
One owner used this list to mount his. In his photos the link, as he made them up, had about 1" of bolt end showing below the bottom bushing. Understandable because of length needed to compress the bushings some. Check the link for photos of his finished setup.
2 - 4.5 inch long 3/8 inch bolts 2 - self locking 3/8 nuts 6 - 3/8 washers 4 - 3/4 inch long 5/16 inch bolts 4 - self locking 5/16 nuts
I have everything except end links of the correct length. Off the shelf links are too long. I need to know the length bolt and spacer sleeve that's being used that will position the eyelet of the bar as close to parallel to the control arm as possible.
Charlie, there are a couple of ways of mounting a front sway bar on the back of an '84-'87. Have a look at the pictures and text on this page Here to see how I mounted the sway bar on my '84. With the way I did it, the end-link sleeves were no more than an inch long (probably closer to 3/4"). Keep in mind my springs were also cut down a couple of coils, so that might've also made a difference in the optimal sleeve length.
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Originally posted by Patrick:
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-03-2016).]
The Link Kevin provided looks like the installer didn't use a sleeved spacer on the bolt. My sway bar was originally mounted at the rear pointing forward. The mount holes are already there, so that's the way I'll likely go back.
I bought an end link kit at Advance, but probably will return it and grab a set of bushings and washers and cut down the sleeves I have on my replacement bar. Thanks for the information on the length of the sleeve. After cutting down the OEM front sleeve, there will be enough left over to cut a longer one, if needed for my rear of the cradle mount.
Much better than drilling more holes in the cradle.
After you get the bar mounted can you post a few pictures and the makeup of the links. Thanks. I have the bar and mounts, just need to decide which way to mount it, then deal with the links. I do like Patrick's setup of the bar being squared up with the links, just not sure you could do that with your rear mounting. Appreciate the help!
Yeah, everything was good when the old sway bar was on there. I havent been under the car in a year or so, but I think Aerodonamic had to drill a hole in each control arm on order to locate the bar underneath the crossmember. I think he also used self-tapping screws to attach the bar supports, too. Depending upon where those mount holes are, I might have to reverse the bar. I'd really like to find some rubber mount bushings but everything seems to be poly. I think new rubber would perform as well without the noise and harshness.
Looking back at Patrick's pictures, it looks like there's access for bolts and washers at the extreme rear of the cradle where I believe the mounts were located.
[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 04-03-2016).]
I havent been under the car in a year or so, but I think Aerodonamic had to drill a hole in each control arm on order to locate the bar underneath the crossmember.
One advantage of mounting the sway bar the way I did is that you are able to make use of an existing hole in each lower control arm for the end-links. The holes are in the perfect location (almost like it was designed that way ). They just needed to be drilled out a tiny bit larger.
If anyone mounts their sway bar the way I did, make sure to have the bar flipped the correct way. I've seen pictures of bars that were mounted the wrong way up and the angle of the "ears" at the end of the sway bar don't match the angle of the lower control arms the way mine do. I was quite pleased with how mine worked out... and it made a heck of a difference with the handling at autocross.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-01-2020).]
When the right knuckle broke with Aerodonamic, the resulting off-road excursion bent the control arm so it was replaced. I just checked both sides and each has 2 holes, 1 being in the center rib and the other forward of that. I did look closely at the orientation of your bar for reference. I've experienced the difference in bar orientation and the effect it has on handling. To the rear was better,but I'm just using an existing setup. The car will never see the kind of driving or the 3800 the other man's 86SE saw.
[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 04-04-2016).]
I've spent 5 or 6 hours today collecting nuts, bolts and washers. That was the easy part at Tractor Supply. Finding sway bar bushings to fit a Fiero is the hard part. I actually went to every auto parts store (6) in the county (small county) and three in a neighboring county. If they had sway bar bushings at all, they were either 1 size too large or one size too small. I'm trying to use the existing holes that are drilled in the frame, but they're spaced wider than stock bushings, thus my search for new bushings. Fiero Store, you've got my order.
While under the car this afternoon, I found that I had made an error in where holes were in the control arms. Both have the 2 stock hole but the drivers side had an extra one in the very end of the center rib. Nothing in the right one that was replaced. There's no way to get a bolt in the center without disconnecting the axle and I'm not willing to do that. Actually, that's beyond what my doctors would allow. I may end up using one of the stock holes and moving it slightly from where it bolts to the cradle, or mounting it at the front, or just forgetting about it.
Wow. Sorry to hear that. How about taking the easy way and mounting to the front of the cradle, but try something different. Because the sway bar link-holes/attachments don't accept the links other than on a angle, can the sway bar ends be heated, by mapp gas or cutting torch allowing you to bend the bar ends so when you add the links and connect to the control arm the links look squared up like they should be? Not being a metallurgist I have no clue how, or if, this would weaken the bar much, or even be successful. Just a thought to help with the front cradle mounting of the bar if you go that way.
My '87 SE used to have the Addco rear sway bar. The Addco bar mounts to the bottom of the cradle, ahead of the wheels. It reduced ground clearance by about 1.5". My Fiero is lowered about 1" or so. As a result, ground clearance for the rear sway bar was less than 3". The center brackets (and sometimes the bar itself), would occasionally scrape the pavement, especially on an uneven surface.
If I could do it all over again, I would have used a sway bar that wraps around the back of the cradle, to save ground clearance. But I eventually swapped in an '88 cradle, so that problem solved itself.
I'm trying to use the existing holes that are drilled in the frame, but they're spaced wider than stock bushings
Charlie, I'm not sure what had been done to your car previously, but is it possible some sort of spacer was used like I had to make for my '84 application? In this image you'll see there's a bolt and a stud (on each side of the spacer). The bushing bracket is held in place by a nut on each stud (which are threaded into and welded to the plate/spacer), and the spacer itself is attached to the cradle by bolts that go into the cradle (with a nut on the end of each bolt).
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Originally posted by Kevin87FieroGT:
...can the sway bar ends be heated, by mapp gas or cutting torch allowing you to bend the bar ends so when you add the links and connect to the control arm the links look squared up like they should be?
...
Kevin, why do you want to make this more complicated than it needs to be? If you look at both images I've posted in this thread, the bar ends (or "ears" as I've called them) are already the perfect angle.
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Originally posted by Patrick:
If anyone mounts their sway bar the way I did, make sure to have the bar flipped the correct way. I've seen pictures of bars that were mounted the wrong way up and the angle of the "ears" at the end of the sway bar don't match the angle of the lower control arms the way mine do. I was quite pleased with how mine worked out.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-04-2016).]
I wouldn't take a chance on killing the temper of the steel. I'd be afraid it might break at a critical moment.
Using the two factory holes in the control arm will allow me to move the bar forward or rearward to possibly find a suitable location for the bushing mounts. This will effectively give me 4 choices. Two each with the bar pointed forward or backward. I'm looking closely at Patrick's setup. It appears he used the two rearward holes.
The bar can be rolled over to change the approach to the end links, unless that affects the function. At least one person has told me that it needs to be mounted with the curve the same direction as on the front. Patrick's bar seems to turn upward between the bushing and end link so depending upon how I mount it, it might need to be turned over so it curves downward.
Not trying to make it difficult at all. One thing I have noticed is with the bar mounted to the front of the cradle, as in the most simple setup, the links when attached are not verticle. That being said, would it be just as easy bending the bar ends rather than using spacers and welded studs on the sway bar mounts to achieve the same verticle end link install. Heat bend and done. I don't know, seems quick to me. For the mounts then all you do is drill the cradle and bolt the mounts on.
Have never heated and bent steel rod so really have no idea how much strength the bar woul lose. It shouldn't need much bending at all, my guess probably only 10* or so at the link attachment hole.
[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 04-04-2016).]
That being said, would it be just as easy bending the bar ends rather than using spacers and welded studs on the sway bar mounts to achieve the same verticle end link install.
In case there's some confusion, I want to make it absolutely clear that the spacers had nothing to do with the end-links.
From my link posted above...
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The only thing that would've made the job easier would've been if the spacers weren't required for the sway bar mounting brackets, but the holes for them would've required drilling up through the cradle into the control arm bushings. That obviously wouldn't have worked, so using the spacers allowed us to spread the bracket mounting holes further apart, thus avoiding the control arm bushings. (The spacers also allow for more clearance between the sway bar and the exhaust pipe on systems that may require it.)
Don't most guys just attach the mounts well inboard from the control arm bushings along the front of the cradle? Maybe the bar ends won't reach that far? I haven't been under there with the bar yet to take a look. For sure you wanted to avoid the control arm bushing area. Thanks!
[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 04-04-2016).]
There's no side to side allowance to avoid the bushings. Only front to rear. That would be why I think Patrick spread the mounting points to allow the bolts passing into the cradle to be on either side of the bushing. When the bar is mounted at the rear, the bushings must be mounted at the extreme rear of the flat part of the cradle. That allows access inside the cradle to replace bushings. I assume there's also a limited flat place at the front of the cradle.
In Martin White's illustration, you can see that flat area near the right jack stand. I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow.
[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 04-04-2016).]
I saw that in the post as I was writing the last. With the bar forward there is limited mounting area. With the bar to the rear do you see any problems around the cradle mounts, or cables? Thanks. If you can get some pictures of the rear setup up that would help for sure, appreciate your time.
There were no problems with the brake cables. When the bar was mounted, my emergency brakes worked just fine. The very back end of the cradle has an opening in the side. Patrick's plate adapter would be a very good method of mounting in that area. As it is, my bolt holes pass close enough to the inner wall that a nut cannot be installed. I assume that is because the bar doesn't have a long enough straight portion to allow a wider mounting point. BUT, mounting it at the rear also requires drilling a hole in the end of the reinforcement rib of the control arm. This puts the end link directly underneath the axle boot.
Don't most guys just attach the mounts well inboard from the control arm bushings along the front of the cradle?
This will become more obvious when you're under the car ... but I wanted to make use of the holes already in the LCA for the end-links. They're in a very good spot... the perfect width for the "ears" on the sway bar, and there's no issue of lack of clearance between the head of the end-link bolts and the rubber boot of the CV joint. The only problem was that this located the body of the sway bar on the cradle directly below the LCA bushings. Although it was a nuisance, making the spacers completely alleviated the problem by allowing the mounting bolts to enter the cradle on either side of the LCA bushings.
The spacers also gave enough clearance between the sway bar and the exhaust pipe which on some cars can be an issue which needs to be addressed.
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Originally posted by Patrick:
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-05-2016).]
I checked out the exhaust clearance while underneath the car this afternoon and my exhaust is well above the lower plane of the cradle, both front and rear. Lucky in that respect.
I checked out the exhaust clearance while underneath the car this afternoon and my exhaust is well above the lower plane of the cradle, both front and rear. Lucky in that respect.
Yeah, my '84 would've been fine as well. However, on some Fieros it's a problem... which is why the aftermarket rear sway bars (some of them at least) actually have a little "blip" in the bar in that one spot to give a bit more clearance for the exhaust pipe.
An image from the 'net which shows the "blip".
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-05-2016).]
I found the thread HERE that years ago had initially given me the idea to mount the sway bar towards the front of the cradle and to use spacers. However, in the images from that thread, I believe it's also an example of the sway bar not being flipped over the right way. Notice how the "ears" are angled incorrectly.
And this last image is definitely NOT the way you want your end-links to look!
Those pictures explained allot. As I have been traveling some, till last night, I have not had the opportunity to get in the garage a put a good look on things. Easy to see now there's not much choice in most cases to mount the bar to the front of the cradle other than in the area of the control arm bushings. So much for all that. It also appears the sway bar link holes already have enough angle to them, when the bar is mounted correctly, so no need to " heat and bend". As it has been said before " one look is worth a thousand peeks", so much for using the phone, mine anyway, for analyzing photos.
Sort of sounds like the rear bar mounting has its problems too. Looking forward to see if Fierofool does something other than the self tapping screws for the mounts. They probably worked ok but I would rather have bolts and nuts, if they fit, or self tapping screws into something more than just the cradle, nut plates or something. Kinda think Fierofool is heading this direction if he can.
In that last photo it appears there must have been a sale on 9" end links that day. Yikes!
Originally posted by Patrick: Yeah, my '84 would've been fine as well. However, on some Fieros it's a problem... which is why the aftermarket rear sway bars (some of them at least) actually have a little "blip" in the bar in that one spot to give a bit more clearance for the exhaust pipe.
The Addco bar had that little dip for exhaust clearance, too. It was still pretty tough getting a 2.5" exhaust pipe through there, without it rattling against something. That was one of the many reasons for swapping in the '88 cradle.
The only pictures I can see are Patrick's first post and in his link. W10 is blocking so much on my PC, including my Webroot antivirus. If I go to a private browsing tab where only my IP provider and an employer can see where I've been, I can't see any of the pictures.
[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 04-05-2016).]
One advantage of mounting the sway bar the way I did is that you are able to make use of an existing hole in each lower control arm for the end-links. The holes are in the perfect location (almost like it was designed that way ). They just needed to be drilled out a tiny bit larger.
This is how the Addco rear bar is mounted as well.
Strange! Now I can see all the pictures. I had the opportunity to take a few of my own.
The first two pictures are of the passenger side. I inserted a bolt into each of the mounting holes to show where the old bushing was located. They're too far apart for a stock bushing mount so I'm sure he used TFS mounts. They have a slotted mount so they allow a wider mounting point.
This is the drivers side. Even though the forward bolt goes in underneath the control arm bushing, there's no problem. A nylok nut could be installed.
This is the drivers side control arm. Notice the additional hole in the center rib. This is where the end link attached.
I've inserted a bolt into each of the original factory holes in the control arm. With the factory bushings on the sway bar, mounted all the way to the rear hole pictured in the first picture, this is where the end link is located. Roughly on the very end of the center rib where the extra hole was drilled. You an see how the sway bar relates to the existing holes. Relocating the mounts to utilize either of the existing holes would be near impossible due to the control arm bushings and the boxed cradle. I think I have a solution for that. Later.
I used the bolts to suspend the swaybar from each of the factory holes, in both the forward mount and the rear mount orientation, and in the center mount location, both forward and rearward. In the front mount, I found that the bar doesn't have enough length in it's cross bar to allow mounting direct to the cradle. Additionally, all the front mounting positions encounter interference of some kind. Interference that Patrick resolved with his adapter plate.
I actually like the center mount position that Aerodonamic used and it can be used for both forward and rearward mount. I've given some though to the interference problem and the width problem. By using the center rib and drilling a matching hole in the passenger control arm, I can move the bar back enough to get the mounts fully over the cradle. The same holds true if a rear mount is utilized, though very little forward relocation would be needed.
Now, here's the solution I think will work. Using Patrick's mounting plate design with mounting studs welded in, instead of drilling through the cradle and bolting the plate to the cradle, weld it to the cradle. I actually like the center position because I think it will give even resistance against both front and rear control arm bushings without putting a twist on the control arm, however minor it might be. Stock swaybar mounts are still available from parts stores, or aftermarket urethane could be used if the studs were located to accept the stock swaybar bushing.
Couple questions. So the way you have the bar rear cradle mounted, it clears every thing and you use the drilled center hole in the control arm? Are the mount bushings your using in the photos the FS ones for the 84-87 stock front bar? I noticed they have the rib.
I sure like your ideas on the center hole in the control arm. Why add any twist to it. Any trouble getting the bolt, washer and bushing through it? I think some have had to shave the bushing on top of the control down a bit to clear the cv boot?
Wish I had a welder. I would do like you guys and front mount the bar. Much better than having to work around the bar when jacking from the rear of the car, which is convenient. Time to get under there!
[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 04-06-2016).]
The bar isn't actually installed. It's being held up by the floor jack. You can see it at the bottom left of my last picture. I was doing trial positioning. The bushings I was using are the stock front bushings and they were only hung by one bolt on each side. The holes in the frame were too far apart to use both bushing holes. I've ordered TFS bushings on the assumption that was what was originally used, and because the mounting holes are slotted to allow a wider bolt spacing.
There is a little problem with the positioning. On the drivers side, the rear bolt goes into the frame too close to the side wall to accept a nut, so it would need to be a self-tapper. That's why I like Patrick's method, but by welding the plate to the frame, interference is taken out of the picture. I don't have a welder, but several of our club members do. The machine shop that makes our club's Digital EGR Adapter Plates can easily fabricate the plates for me. I think they can be made universal to accept either stock or aftermarket bushings. Actually, the aftermarket urethane bushings are cheaper. Just the stock rubber inserts without brackets are $22 a pair at NAPA.
The original sway bar end links had no problem clearing the axle boot. Getting the bolt with bushing on it into that hole is a little difficult. The shorter the bolt used, the easier it is. The bushing sits down inside that rib so it gives a little extra clearance. You could always insert your bolt from the bottom, but you might need to do a trial fit and grind the end of the bolt down to be sure it doesn't push into the boot. If you use the holes that are already in the control arm, there's no need to make any mods to bushings or bolt because it's either forward or rearward of the boot and the bolt simply drops in. Something Don told me about drilling the hole in the end of the center rib---"Put a piece of wood between the control arm and axle boot".
When I got the car and it had the sway bar mounted, if I wanted to jack up the car, I simply placed the floor jack up against the center of the sway bar. When lift was exerted, it pushed the bar up about a half inch, coming in contact with the cross member. The cross member took all the force, and no harm was done to the bar. Again, using the bottom photo, you can see how close the bar sits to the rear cross member.
I have the car supported on jack stands and am trying to work it out to use the existing holes in the frame. When doing a fresh install, it's important to have the car sitting on it's wheels while you do the fitting. Setting the rear wheels up on concrete blocks or ramps is a good method. When using concrete blocks, it's always a good idea to place a 2 x 6 or a cap block on top of the concrete block. Concrete blocks are known to shatter if the wheel is placed incorrectly. And chock front and rear of the front wheels. Depending on your wheels, you may have to remove them to drill holes after determining your position for the end links. End link sleeves may have to be cut down, also.
I just noticed in Patrick's example of the sway bar being flipped over the wrong way, that the end links are installed in the center rib, too.
The plates could actually be used for a front or rear mount if welded to the frame and maybe even stock and aftermarket bushing kits. May also be compatible with Addco bars, too. I think any kit shouldn't include end links because of the custom sleeve. The installer has 3 options which will likely require a different end link setup, then add to that the option of an aftermarket or stock sway bar. Too many variables. Plates and bushings as a kit, maybe. It would have to be run through the Board of Directors for approval.
I actually like the center position because I think it will give even resistance against both front and rear control arm bushings without putting a twist on the control arm, however minor it might be.
When I first read this, I didn't really understand what you were getting at. If I'm now correctly following what you're saying, you want the end links to mount in the center (front to back) of the lower control arms to put equal pressure on the fore and aft bushings of each rear LCA. Is that right?
I had never given this a moment's thought previously. Without looking, I have no idea now years later of how centered the end-link mounting holes might be on my 84's LCA. Not being a mechanical engineer, I don't know if the added load from the sway bar would have any appreciable effect on the LCA bushings if this pressure was not centered on the LCA. Would it actually cause a "twist"... I don't know. It is interesting to note though that on the 88's, the rear sway bar avoids that issue completely by having the end-links attach directly to the rear struts.
[EDIT] Just out of curiosity, how "centered" are the end-link mounting holes on the front lower control arms on '84-'87 and '88 Fieros? If they're not centered, then there's no reason to suspect it would be an issue in the back.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-06-2016).]
That was my thoughts about it. It would be directly in line with the ball joint. Attaching in the stock holes might put only a minimal amount of twist, but who knows. On the front, the end link is attached to the bottom spring perch and is mounted forward of the actual control arm. The spring perch is a very heavy piece of metal and adds strength to just a bare control arm.
When using the stock front sway bar mounted at the rear of the frame, the only possible location is to drill and attach it to the center rib of the control arm. There isn't enough length to the cradle to move it back and use the rear hole in the control arm. If mounted to the front of the cradle, you would have a choice of using one of the stock holes, or drilling in the center rib. Of course, the center rib would probably cause similar problems with available mounting points on the cradle. The Addco bar paddles aren't as widely spaced as the stock bar and is designed for front mount only, with end links in the front control arm hole.
Your mounting plate would allow some variance in mounting positions when using he stock bar.
Reference the front sway bar, at the front of the car. One thing I noticed with the control arms was that the sway bar links attach to control arm very close to being inline with the forward control arm bushing. So even though the control arm itself is beefed up by the spring perch, I would think there would be some additional loading on the control arm front bushing, but no twist in the arm itself.
[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 04-06-2016).]
I received TFS bushings today and checked them against the mounting points on the frame. The bolts will fit through the slots and into the frame, so these are probbly what Don used. I'll still be planning to do the mounting plates and drilling the extra hole in the right control arm.
). They just needed to be drilled out a tiny bit larger. 
... but I wanted to make use of the holes already in the LCA for the end-links. They're in a very good spot... the perfect width for the "ears" on the sway bar, and there's no issue of lack of clearance between the head of the end-link bolts and the rubber boot of the CV joint. The only problem was that this located the body of the sway bar on the cradle directly below the LCA bushings. Although it was a nuisance, making the spacers completely alleviated the problem by allowing the mounting bolts to enter the cradle on either side of the LCA bushings. 
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