Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  84 with 5 speed trans!? trying to swap s10 2.8 into 84 2.5 5 speed need help!

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
84 with 5 speed trans!? trying to swap s10 2.8 into 84 2.5 5 speed need help! by Stickshift17
Started on: 05-07-2015 08:17 AM
Replies: 11 (484 views)
Last post by: Mike Gonzalez on 05-08-2015 12:05 PM
Stickshift17
Member
Posts: 25
From: Illinois
Registered: May 2015


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-07-2015 08:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stickshift17Send a Private Message to Stickshift17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey guys this is my first time posting here, I love the support and knowledge shared on here so hopefully Ya'll can help me out with some stuff! I have a few questions I need to get out a the way first.

What the heck kind of fiero do I have!? Lol, by VIN it's an 84 SE with the 2.5 but it's got a friggn 5 speed that looks like it was factory not swapped, now if unless I'm mistaken I though they only had 4 speeds in 84.. so also how do identify if it's the MT2 Isuzu or the MG2 Getrag. Sure I would love to look at the RPO codes but they are the exact oposite codes, matching absolutely nothing that the car has in it, saying it's the power windows locks and electric hatch pop when it's all manual. Saying it's a 3 speed auto when the beat up interior pieces have the 5 speed H pattern on them and countless other things...

I've been doing endless research like every night on engine swaps which leads me to my next question..

I have a 93 S10 5 speed with the 2.8 motor that I love to death, I just so happen to be getting ready to swap a 350 chevy into it tho, which leaves my beloved and strong running 2.8 in the corner getting dusty.. so IF I HAVE THE ISUZU MT2 5-SPEED Can i just plop the 2.8 in from the S10 since I have the ECU, harness, etc or does it *have to be the Getrag MG2?* and or *are the mounts and starter placement any diff from a fiero 2.8 and aN S10 2.8?*

If the 2.8 is a no go what is the best option for engine swap that will be not only easy but not too much for my existing trans.

Thanks so much hope to get some help before I pull all my hair out lol
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
fierofool
Member
Posts: 11907
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 151
Rate this member

Report this Post05-07-2015 09:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you have an Isuzu transmission, your cables will run parallel to one another and look like this at the transmission. The 4-speed cables also run parallel, but come in at a little different angle and the ends look different.


The Getrag 5-speed will have one of it's cables coming up from the bottom.

Installing a V6 in an 84 requires a good bit of work, according to a few people here on this forum. I don't know if your S10 engine will swap easily, but this article may be helpful in regards to the V6 install. http://gafiero.akroncdnr.com/docs/84v6.pdf

Welcome to the world of Fieros.

So that you don't get information posted to both your posts, I'd suggest that you edit your double post and delete the text. Just put something like "Sorry---Double Post" in the text box.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 05-07-2015).]

IP: Logged
Stickshift17
Member
Posts: 25
From: Illinois
Registered: May 2015


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-07-2015 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stickshift17Send a Private Message to Stickshift17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks man, looks like I have the Isuzu 5-Speed according to the cables. So i'm guessing by that the 2.8 will bolt to the Isuzu as well and not just the Getrag?

Other questions regarding the 2.8 being out of an S10:

Are the motor mount castings on the s10 2.8 block in the same Place or different from a fiero block because of the transverse mounting?

And what side is the starter on, on the fiero 2.8 block?
(Looking at the front of the block my starter is on the left if I remember right)

Also since I will have the original harness and ECU from the S10, what exactly needs to be rewired, and wirred too what??

PS: Fierofool, I am brand new to the forum and I can't exactly figure out how to get to my other post lol can you shed some light o that lol, I was un aware I posted it twice in the first place haha. Also it won't let me open your link on my phone so I may log in on the actual comp and try to look at it, thanks for the help
IP: Logged
fierofool
Member
Posts: 11907
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 151
Rate this member

Report this Post05-07-2015 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can't answer your questions about the S10 engine, but I would speculate that it has a different transmission bolt pattern than the Fiero. Many of the S10's also had heads with smaller valves even though they appeared identical, otherwise. I don't know if this applies to your motor, though. All Fiero transmissions are interchangeable between all Fiero engines.

In the absence of an existing Fiero motor to swap parts from, you are going to have to use the complete S10 engine. I would bet that you'll have problems closing the deck lid. The Fiero intake is very flat. The 85 and up Fiero deck lid received a hump for clearance with the introduction of the V6 in 85.
IP: Logged
Stickshift17
Member
Posts: 25
From: Illinois
Registered: May 2015


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-07-2015 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Stickshift17Send a Private Message to Stickshift17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's kinda funny cause mine has a hump I beleive lol, this fiero has got to be either a later model 84 or just a pieced together son of a fire chicken XD
IP: Logged
Stickshift17
Member
Posts: 25
From: Illinois
Registered: May 2015


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-07-2015 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Stickshift17Send a Private Message to Stickshift17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Stickshift17

25 posts
Member since May 2015
I'm really not going for perfection, i've just got a $300 Fiero I drive daily with only 90,000 miles but looks absolutely horrible lol, but I also have the potential to have a cheep fun build for DD and autocross, and my 2.8 is strong running and free, so if I can make it work I will, if it worn't work, I won't be totally heart broken, I may just keep it in the truck and go to a turbo setup for originality and find something else to swap in. until I find a good reason as to why not to 2.8 it i'm gonna stick with it.
IP: Logged
Raydar
Member
Posts: 38692
From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country.
Registered: Oct 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 452
Rate this member

Report this Post05-07-2015 05:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The S10 2.8 will have the same tranny bolt pattern.
You will need a FWD flywheel, and will need a different starter. (The RWD starter is on the opposite side of the block from the Fiero starter.)
The good news is that once the holes are drilled in the block (Rodney Dickman sells a kit to accomplish this) your 4 cylinder starter will work on the 2.8.
(Since your S10 is a 93, you will likely need an 88 or later 2.8 or 3.1 "zero balance" flywheel. It MUST be from a FWD car. Cavalier, Beretta, or similar.)

Wiring? Good luck. The 84 was never designed to accommodate a V6. The electricals are completely different.

BTW... Your S10 should have the good (big valve) heads. All EFI S10s came with the "good" heads.
It will work fine with the Isuzu. I would get the (larger) V6 clutch and pressure plate, but you will need to use the Isuzu release bearing.

Edit - The Fiero V6 uses an L shaped bracket that bolts to the front (accessory end) of the block. The bottom of the "L" is bolted to a rubber mount, similar to the one used by your 4 cylinder.
I have to believe that the S10 block has the same holes.
The mounting locations on the side of the block are not used and are not necessary, for installation in a Fiero. Other than that L shaped bracket, the only other mounts are on the sides of the transaxle.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-07-2015).]

IP: Logged
Stickshift17
Member
Posts: 25
From: Illinois
Registered: May 2015


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-08-2015 08:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stickshift17Send a Private Message to Stickshift17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://rodneydickman.com/ca...g/index.php?cPath=49

I'm assuming this is what you mentioned? Just wanna double check. I've never heard of this site, kinda neat!

Also thanks you so much, those are the answers I was wanting to here haha, I figure out bracketry, other fabrications, and mechanical to an extent on my own, however it's easier to ask the main concerns before being knee deep in a swap finding out a simple question would have stopped me from doing a nearly impossible swap lol. So thanks everyone, i'I'm sure i'I'll have other questions to come soon!

One more thing no one has seemed to make clearer for me, is the electrical, i'I'm not asking for a diagram however if someone knows where both my 93 s10 2.8 5 speed harness diagram is and the 84 2.5 5 speed diagram is that would be great lol, but *I just need to know, what kind of things will you be wiring I'm from harness to harness, for instance - fuel pump-check engine lights- guages- charging system-Ignition system- and stuff to make it as if the car was saposed to have all the bells and whistles work with a 2.8? Or doesn't the ECU just control the motor?? Or am I totally wrong, where the ECU and harness are meant for like everything in the car practicly? that's the only thing i'm un aware of Is basically what you're trying to wore together, I thought the ECM and engine harness could precticly run the car on a stand o guess, which I'm looking to do all my own mechanical guages and stuff if all else fails.. help? Lol

[This message has been edited by Stickshift17 (edited 05-08-2015).]

IP: Logged
fierofool
Member
Posts: 11907
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 151
Rate this member

Report this Post05-08-2015 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is the correct starter relocation tool. I didn't know it would also work for the Isuzu Trooper conversion, too.

I would suggest that you thoroughly read and then re-read the link in my first post. Changing an 84 over requires a lot of work and isn't for the faint of heart. Like Raydar said, it was never intended to have a V6. It's a whole 'nother animal than the rest of the Fieros.
IP: Logged
Stickshift17
Member
Posts: 25
From: Illinois
Registered: May 2015


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-08-2015 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stickshift17Send a Private Message to Stickshift17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm taking to heart what you're saying beleive me, but can someone define what areas of the swap in the 84 that make it such a pain? Everyone is saying it's hard, but is it the cradle design, the suspention not being built for the power, is it just the wiring or what? If I can get a little more guidance on what to lookout for than that enables me to look at what others have done to avoid the same problems, and also just gives me a good heads up for what specific areas i'm going to fight, and prepare for it BEFORE I continue. Also, I believe any engine swap should at leas lt be earned to an extent, needs will power skills and drive, all of which I hope to gain from both of my swaps, so I understand it's not a bolt together kit kinda deal, and that's exactly why I want to do it lol
IP: Logged
fierofool
Member
Posts: 11907
From: Auburn, Georgia USA
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 151
Rate this member

Report this Post05-08-2015 11:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Raydar, myself, other members of the Georgia Fiero Club and folks from all across the east coast were involved in a charity restoration and conversion of an 84. It got a V6 transplant. From what I've read on this forum and from hearing discussions about that conversion project, the electrical is the big problem. I heard someone say that there were over 130 modifications needed to make the 84 electrical system compatible with the V6 setup. Mechanically and physically, everything's a drop-in.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Mike Gonzalez
Member
Posts: 5093
From: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
Registered: Jul 2001


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 130
Rate this member

Report this Post05-08-2015 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ive done 3800 swaps in 84's, The wiring is the biggest issue, and most the issue is just figuring out what wwire goes where. Most the infor on wiring you will find is for 85+. The C500 connector in the 84 needs relocated as its in the way for a V6 swap. Its not really that bad if you take your time and take notes.

84 C500


84 C203
A...................Upshift light
B...Orange...........Fuel pump/power to relay
C...Brown/Wht......Check Engine Light
D...Lt Blue...........AC Compressor relay control/AC "ON' input for ECM
E...Tan................Oil pressure switch open above 4psi.
F...Pink/Black......Power input to ECM/Fuel injector
H...Dk Brown........VSS input to ECM?
K...Dark Green......AC Compressor Clutch
M...Black/White....Ground for Cruise Control Module
N...Brown.............AC Compressor control relay
P...Pink...............Torque converter Clutch Solenoid?
R...Purple/White...Crank input to ECM

[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 05-08-2015).]

IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock