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Weird clutch issue by 94blackbird
Started on: 02-16-2015 06:24 PM
Replies: 12 (161 views)
Last post by: 94blackbird on 02-22-2015 09:48 PM
94blackbird
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Report this Post02-16-2015 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 94blackbirdClick Here to Email 94blackbirdSend a Private Message to 94blackbirdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, so I drove my fiero (85 4spd) home last night and parked it. This morning I went to leave for work and the car would not go into gear at all. It went from perfect operation to nothing with nothing inbetween. I have bled the system and watched the slave actuate when my helper pressed the clutch pedal. There was no perceptible slack in the actuation, as soon as the pedal started moving so did the slave, and it looked like it was moving the correct amount. There are no discernable leaks in the system either.

I have a spare slave and master to try, but I don't feel that this is ultimately the issue. The pedal has no feel, it just goes straight to the floor even with the slave cylinder actuating.

My question is, is there anything else I could be over looking before I have to look in the bellhousing? To recap, system has been bled, slave moves with master with no perceptible delay or slack, no pedal feel and straight to the floor but pedal returns easily and with no perceptible issue. No perceptible leaks in the system.
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Neils88
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Report this Post02-16-2015 06:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The slave rod should move about 1 1/8" - 1 1/4". If it's moving that far then it's not a hydraulic problem. It could be a failure of the clutch fork, or the pressure plate. Can you move the clutch lever by hand? Make sure the lever itself didn't become loose.
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94blackbird
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Report this Post02-16-2015 06:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 94blackbirdClick Here to Email 94blackbirdSend a Private Message to 94blackbirdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Neils88:

The slave rod should move about 1 1/8" - 1 1/4". If it's moving that far then it's not a hydraulic problem. It could be a failure of the clutch fork, or the pressure plate. Can you move the clutch lever by hand? Make sure the lever itself didn't become loose.


Ok, that is one thing I hadn't thought of to check while i had the slave detached. I will check it tomorrow.
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fierofool
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Report this Post02-16-2015 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't press the clutch pedal while the slave is detached. The 1 1/8" movement should be with it installed. You can possibly damage your hydraulic components or clutch pedal if you do it while it's detached since the piston will probably be bottomed out in the slave bore.
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94blackbird
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Report this Post02-17-2015 10:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 94blackbirdClick Here to Email 94blackbirdSend a Private Message to 94blackbirdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

Don't press the clutch pedal while the slave is detached. The 1 1/8" movement should be with it installed. You can possibly damage your hydraulic components or clutch pedal if you do it while it's detached since the piston will probably be bottomed out in the slave bore.


I know not to do that, not my first rodeo with a clutch. Basically just asking if there were any other idiosyncratic things with fieros other than the standard stuff before I cracked the bellhousing open.

Looks like I will be splitting the engine and trans. Cannot find anything in the hydraulics that would indicate an issue. Thanks for the replies!
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tebailey
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Report this Post02-18-2015 09:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does sound like a broken clutch fork.
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fierofool
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Report this Post02-18-2015 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Reading your problem a little differently, the clutch pedal and slave move properly? But the transmission won't go into gear. Will it go into gear if the engine isn't running? If you can do this, will the car roll with engine off and trans in gear? Have you tried disconnecting the cables and placing the trans into gear manually. I*'m thinking there's a possibility that the cables may have a problem, especially in the Ohio climate. Just exploring all avenues before you have to drop everything out.
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Report this Post02-18-2015 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tebaileyClick Here to Email tebaileySend a Private Message to tebaileyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The "no pedal feel" is why I think clutch fork. With the slave off see if you can move the clutch lever by hand. If so it's an internal problem.
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94blackbird
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Report this Post02-22-2015 11:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 94blackbirdClick Here to Email 94blackbirdSend a Private Message to 94blackbirdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you all for the replies. I am about 99% sure it's the clutch fork. To answer some of the questions posed, it will go into gear with the engine off, i can start it in gear and the car will move (have had to do this so I could get my truck out). With that being said that pretty much leaves the clutch fork as the problem. In any case I have identified that the problem is in the bellhousing now so I will have to drop the cradle and pull the transmission.

Again thanks for all the responses!

The reason I was asking in the first place is that the night before this happened the car drove home perfectly fine. I had absolutely no issues with the car shifting into or out of gear at all up to the time I parked it for the night. The next morning when I went to leave for work, and POOF! no pedal whatsoever for (at the time) no appearent reason.

[This message has been edited by 94blackbird (edited 02-22-2015).]

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fierofool
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Report this Post02-22-2015 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 94blackbird:

.....snip.....

The next morning when I went to leave for work, and POOF! no pedal whatsoever for (at the time) no appearent reason.



If you pumped up the pedal did it give you any degree of release? Just with that, it sounds like air in the system. Pop the bellows off the slave to see if there's fluid in there. The master cylinder leak can be very difficult to detect because it tends to run down behind the carpet and padding. Just exploring all possibilities, hoping you don't have to drop everything and pull the transmission. Raising the drivers side of the car, even if you park parallel on an incline, and bumping on the slave can help to eliminate more air bubbles than bleeding it while it's sitting on a flat surface. I've done that by pulling up on a steep grade at a 45 degree angle when my slave failed and sucked in a bunch of air. It got me the last 12 miles home. And it's a one person operation. No pumping required. Just fill the reservoir, open the bleeder and bump on the side of the slave a few times to float the bubbles up to the bleeder valve, close the bleeder, top off the MC and open the bleeder and repeat the process.
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94blackbird
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Report this Post02-22-2015 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 94blackbirdClick Here to Email 94blackbirdSend a Private Message to 94blackbirdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:


If you pumped up the pedal did it give you any degree of release? Just with that, it sounds like air in the system. Pop the bellows off the slave to see if there's fluid in there. The master cylinder leak can be very difficult to detect because it tends to run down behind the carpet and padding. Just exploring all possibilities, hoping you don't have to drop everything and pull the transmission. Raising the drivers side of the car, even if you park parallel on an incline, and bumping on the slave can help to eliminate more air bubbles than bleeding it while it's sitting on a flat surface. I've done that by pulling up on a steep grade at a 45 degree angle when my slave failed and sucked in a bunch of air. It got me the last 12 miles home. And it's a one person operation. No pumping required. Just fill the reservoir, open the bleeder and bump on the side of the slave a few times to float the bubbles up to the bleeder valve, close the bleeder, top off the MC and open the bleeder and repeat the process.


There is absolutely no release when the pedal is depressed no matter how many times it is consecutively pumped. The slave push rod is moving the prescribed distance, and I couldn't detect any leaks anywhere in the system. I verified that before I performed the bleed procedure that you just described. No air bubbles though, even after several minujtes.
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fierofool
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Report this Post02-22-2015 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, I was just holding out hope for you that you could find something outside of the bellhousing. It looks like you've eliminated everything else.
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94blackbird
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Report this Post02-22-2015 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 94blackbirdClick Here to Email 94blackbirdSend a Private Message to 94blackbirdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

Well, I was just holding out hope for you that you could find something outside of the bellhousing. It looks like you've eliminated everything else.


Unfortunately. I wish it was a simple fix, but I think it would have presented itself by now. At this point until I crack the engine/trans, the only thing I can think is that the clutch fork was already marginal or had a crack forming, and the super cold temps made it just brittle enough that when I depressed the clutch to start it, it snapped or bent. At least that's the hypothesis I'm going with until I can take everything apart and get eyes on.

[This message has been edited by 94blackbird (edited 02-22-2015).]

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