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I broke my Getrag 282, what should I do now? by mitchjl22
Started on: 02-15-2014 06:06 PM
Replies: 36 (1500 views)
Last post by: Blacktree on 02-19-2014 12:56 PM
mitchjl22
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Report this Post02-15-2014 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was trying to capture a video of some low >2° KR I was experiencing at 4K rpm in second gear. At 30 sec into the video, you can see me stop pulling and look behind me. I saw what looked like a rock flip up into the air, now I know it was part of my 282 case. Here's my problem.




What are my options now? I found a Beretta locally with a FWD Getrag that Rodney sells an adapter kit for. Its a fairly low price of $275 no core with 60 day warranty.

I've seen, but not researched the F23, would it be better to go this route just because its an upgrade? How expensive is the swap?

F-40. I've sourced 2 of these fairly close to me. (We committed to but them) They are brand new transmissions with 0 miles. I've read bad things about 06' rattle, and fieroguru had posted a video of his. The trannies are from around 06, so I don't really know if it would be a good idea to roll the dice. I really want mattwa to post his F-40 build on here so I can read about it. I need a really good writeup on the f40.

Here is the wonderful video I had the pleasure of capturing. Don't mind me talking to myself, it was for my dad originally.

[This message has been edited by mitchjl22 (edited 02-15-2014).]

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Report this Post02-15-2014 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would attempt to see if there is someplace else to catch a bolt into the tranny. Maybe by modifying the bracket?

Otherwise...
I have a 92-93 Beretta Getrag in my car. Has the integrated slave/release bearing.
The gearing is the same as the Fiero Getrag. It might be a little easier to shift. (That was supposed to be one of the upgrades, along with sturdier differential gears.)
I really like it. Lots of room without that external slave in the way. In addition to buying Rodney's pieces, you will probably have to tap the holes for the select cable bracket. At least I did.

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Report this Post02-16-2014 01:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neverendingprojectClick Here to Email neverendingprojectSend a Private Message to neverendingprojectEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What kind of mount setup do you have? Do you have a dogbone? Did it break internally also?

------------------
'84 2m4 Northstar 5 speed
'84 3800SCII sold
'86 GT-'92 3.4 TDC 5 speed(sold)

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Report this Post02-16-2014 02:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have Rodney poly trans mounts, poly dogbone, and stock motor mount.

Edit to add: I don't think it's broken internally. There's no leaks or anything.

[This message has been edited by mitchjl22 (edited 02-16-2014).]

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Report this Post02-16-2014 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for neverendingprojectClick Here to Email neverendingprojectSend a Private Message to neverendingprojectEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If there's no internal damage I'm sure you can switch to another Getrag without it happening again but you may want to switch to a poly motor mount to possibly reduce strain on the tranny mounts. You can probably use the same kind of Prothane mount Rodney uses with some spacers.

Also try to avoid bump starting it if it ever stalls while you're moving, I tore the rear motor mount on my Northstar doing that too many times.
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Report this Post02-16-2014 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattman134Click Here to Email mattman134Send a Private Message to mattman134Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don bother with the 282, go f23. More reliable and a lot stronger
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Report this Post02-17-2014 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
if it is not leaking or broken other than that mount hole , i would just modify the mount to catch one of the other bolts .are you running the stock V6 ? if so , then you really dont need a trans upgrade .
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wftb

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just heard the supercharger whine .get the f23 .
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Report this Post02-17-2014 08:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Fiero 282 and the FWD 282 are the same strength externally the FWD one just has a stronger diff and slightly different shifter assembly which can be used with a little work.
The F23 is stronger all around and a lot easier to come by with decent mileage but is more work to instal with the need for new mounts, some changes in the harness, shifter adapter and another select cable or I would suggest a stronger cable from California push pull so it will last longer as I have seen a few select cables fail when used as a shift cable even had one of Rodney's brand new ones fail in less then two weeks of easy driving. Dan
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Report this Post02-17-2014 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I really don't want to go to all the extra work for the f23. The 282 has a decent track record...

I'm guess trying to justify the $265 I just spent on a FWD 282. I hope this all works out for the best. I really don't want to pull the motor again for a while after this.
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Report this Post02-17-2014 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I drove my brother's Cobalt SS (supercharged one) with the F23 and did not like the gear ratios. At 3000 rpm in 5th he was doing 80mph and I think the Getrag does 88mph. You'd lose fuel economy but gain acceleration.
I have an F40 install and I love 6th gear, but I have a 3.4. When I had a 2.8 it could just maintain speed at 65 @ 1800rpm in 6th.
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Report this Post02-17-2014 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not sure if Asa wants to break up the parts he has for sale but I know he has a low milage, rebuilt 282, w/ LSD.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/068234.html

You can call him and talk about it.

Rob
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Report this Post02-17-2014 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

I drove my brother's Cobalt SS (supercharged one) with the F23 and did not like the gear ratios. At 3000 rpm in 5th he was doing 80mph and I think the Getrag does 88mph. You'd lose fuel economy but gain acceleration.
I have an F40 install and I love 6th gear, but I have a 3.4. When I had a 2.8 it could just maintain speed at 65 @ 1800rpm in 6th.


the cobalt SS turbo and supercharged models both use the f35 .and it is a transmission that a lot of people seem unhappy with .there are lots of threads about gear ratios for the f23 , i dont really know what you would rev at 70mph .the big advantage over the f40 is you just use fiero axles in the f23 .they both need work to make shift linkages etc work .
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Report this Post02-17-2014 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mitchjl22:
I'm guess trying to justify the $265 I just spent on a FWD 282. I hope this all works out for the best. I really don't want to pull the motor again for a while after this.


I have one bolted to my 4.9/Allante setup. It also has the EP LSD installed, which probably doesn't help the case, as much as the diff.
Everything is rubber mounted. Both tranny mounts and all three (front, rear, and under the pan) engine mounts.
Even without a dogbone, I haven't broken anything.
In the interest of not shock loading the drivetrain, I don't do clutch drops, but I'll occasionally mat the gas after the clutch is fully engaged.

You might find something useful here.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-1-085296.html

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-17-2014).]

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Report this Post02-17-2014 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mitchjl22:

I really don't want to go to all the extra work for the f23. The 282 has a decent track record...

I'm guess trying to justify the $265 I just spent on a FWD 282. I hope this all works out for the best. I really don't want to pull the motor again for a while after this.

The FWD HM282 is an easy install, if you use Rodney Dickman's install kit. That said, chances are the FWD gearbox will have a magnetic speed sensor. You'll need to build or buy a buffer circuit for the speed sensor, so the Fiero speedometer can understand the electrical signal from it.

Also, you might want to install a second dogbone / torque strut somewhere on the driver side of the car. Under acceleration (especially with a high performance engine like the 3800SC), the transmission tries to rotate in its mounts. The firewall side tries to pull up, while the trunk side tries to push down. And since the stock dogbone is way over on the passenger side of the engine bay, it doesn't help much with that.
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Report this Post02-17-2014 11:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:
the cobalt SS turbo and supercharged models both use the f35 .and it is a transmission that a lot of people seem unhappy with .there are lots of threads about gear ratios for the f23 , i dont really know what you would rev at 70mph .the big advantage over the f40 is you just use fiero axles in the f23 .they both need work to make shift linkages etc work .

ah ok, thanks
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Report this Post02-18-2014 08:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With the 282 it is pretty easy to instal a second dog bone, I do a mirror image sort of build of the chassis side of the dog bone bracket on the other side of the car then make a bracket coming up off the housing of the 282 to a bracket on the tranny side. can post a pic or two if it helps explain better. If you take your time it can look pretty much stock. Dan
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Report this Post02-18-2014 09:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

With the 282 it is pretty easy to instal a second dog bone, I do a mirror image sort of build of the chassis side of the dog bone bracket on the other side of the car then make a bracket coming up off the housing of the 282 to a bracket on the tranny side. can post a pic or two if it helps explain better. If you take your time it can look pretty much stock. Dan


I'd like to see some pictures of this if you have a chance.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 10:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The supercharged Ion and Cobalt used the MU3 version of the F35 which used a 4.05 final drive... the turbocharged 2.0 cars used the MU2 F35 with a 3.84 final and a 0.7 5th, which would make it a little better for cruising than the 3.94 final and 0.69 5th in the the J-body Metric F23... moot point though because you can't really use an F35 in a Fiero without and adapter plate or an Ecotec.

Info on FWD manual transmissions that can be used without a bell housing swap:






Moonwell's Gear Ratio Calculator

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 02-18-2014).]

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wftb
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Report this Post02-18-2014 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
that is great information , nicely done .
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Report this Post02-18-2014 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gee, if you had used a 25.2" tire for the F40 like the others, it would look much like the F23 except with a 6th gear.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 10:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
BAH!! I missed that.. the calc is set up for a different car by default... sigh...

Edit: Fixed!

Edit: BAH!! 3000 RPM...

Edit:

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 02-18-2014).]

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post02-18-2014 11:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you are so worried about turning alot of rpm on the highway make your tach read 1000 rpms lower than actual.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

With the 282 it is pretty easy to instal a second dog bone, I do a mirror image sort of build of the chassis side of the dog bone bracket on the other side of the car then make a bracket coming up off the housing of the 282 to a bracket on the tranny side. can post a pic or two if it helps explain better. If you take your time it can look pretty much stock. Dan

Yes, please post photos.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 05:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Found these so far will have to dig for more. Dan







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Report this Post02-18-2014 06:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's pretty cool. The triangular section on top should help with chassis stiffness a bit, too.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes that is a bonus as I have seen quite a few fieros where the welds have let go there and the two pieces have separated allowing the strut tower to move under heavy load.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 08:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Okay so when I called the Pull apart, I told the I wanted the manual from a beretta 1989, they said they had a 90, with a V6 and said they should cross reference. I just got the tranny, and it has an old sticker on it that says Muncie. Thats not correct......?

I'll post pictures in a minute when they upload,
the sticker says,
*610NRxM003267*
MUNCIE
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Report this Post02-18-2014 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

mitchjl22

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quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

Found these so far will have to dig for more. Dan









Thanks for the info dan

[This message has been edited by mitchjl22 (edited 02-18-2014).]

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Report this Post02-18-2014 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

mitchjl22

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Report this Post02-18-2014 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote

Author Message
1990BerettaGTZ2.3L
Post subject: Re: 1995 5 speed transmissionPostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:33 am
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Jon I was just stating what the guy told me I bought my new garnet gtz off of because he said he had the flywheel turned when he rebuilt the motor in '08 and shimmed it

_________________
1990 Beretta GTZ Quad,226 cams, 3.94 W-41 trans
1990 Beretta GTZ Quad 4, 3.61 muncie 5 speed (project)
1968 Chevelle 300 deluxe 327ci 4 speed M-21, 12 bolt 4.10 posi
1978 Chevy K10 Z77 Sport 4x4
1977 GMC Sierra Classic 25 454 crew cab
-Ryan



Did i get the only 1990 Muncie Beretta?
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Report this Post02-18-2014 09:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Getrag 5-speed transmissions were designed by Getrag and manufactured at Muncie. Officially, it's a Muncie-Getrag HM282. So don't worry about it.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


So, do I bolt on my shift linkage then to this one? Would I be better off getting an 87-89 tranny instead of a 90? If they're all basically the same then no big deal I'll just use this one.
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Report this Post02-18-2014 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm not sure if the Fiero shift linkage will work properly with it. But Rodney Dickman sells a shifter linkage for FWD Getrags that will work. He also sells an internal slave to Fiero slave cyl adapter, if you want to go that route.

Links:

Shift Linkage

Slave Adapter
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Report this Post02-19-2014 06:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mitchjl22:

So, do I bolt on my shift linkage then to this one? Would I be better off getting an 87-89 tranny instead of a 90? If they're all basically the same then no big deal I'll just use this one.


If you bolt the Fiero Getrag shifting linkage to this FWD Getrag you will find you can not get first or second gear. The shifting shaft in a FWD Getrag is shorter. My FWD conversion kit fixes this.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post02-19-2014 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:


If you bolt the Fiero Getrag shifting linkage to this FWD Getrag you will find you can not get first or second gear. The shifting shaft in a FWD Getrag is shorter. My FWD conversion kit fixes this.


Yes, that's what I thought, the case look a little different than mine, but if its the same, great! I'll order your shift linkage, and do I need the slave adapter? This transmission has a hole in the bell housing with a clutch arm inside the bell housing.
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Report this Post02-19-2014 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you want to use the Fiero slave cylinder, then yes you'll need the adapter.
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