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Good v8 for fiero gt by Kfa171
Started on: 10-30-2013 06:11 AM
Replies: 45 (1104 views)
Last post by: FFIEROFRED on 11-01-2013 11:11 AM
Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 06:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi I have a 1986 and a half fiero with the 5 spd getrag and I wanna put a v8 but I don want to have to modify anything a lot and I was wondering about the gm 350 EFI and how much needs to be modified to put it in and also I wanted to know the fiero is a open differential too right?
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Report this Post10-30-2013 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the Forum!

There is a lot of information here that will help you. Search for V8 archie's posts as well as his website, and also look for SBC or small block chevy.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 09:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For a minimum of modifications the 4.9 caddy is the engine. It bolts to the tranny and if you get the ECM and engine harness with it you are in business. I carb'd mine because I am old school, and it goes like stink. You'll need a heavier clutch though

Hope this helps

Arn
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Report this Post10-30-2013 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Punctuation will make the swap much easier
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Report this Post10-30-2013 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DburgerSend a Private Message to DburgerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Punctuation will make the swap much easier




Another vote for the 4.9.
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 11:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found a great deal on a gm 350 so how much would I have to do to drop that into my fiero
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Report this Post10-30-2013 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You will need Archies install kit. If I remember its about $3000. I did one of the conversions myself a few years ago. Dont do it if your using a Fiero automatic though...tranns wont take it.
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok well if I did the 4.9 I heard that they tend to over heat and they redline at 5600 at only 200hp what is a common what that you guys are turning them into 300hp plus motors and making the redline point higher
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fieroguru
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Report this Post10-30-2013 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 4.9 is a very good engine for what it is: relatively inexpensive and simple to install, about the same weight as the 2.8 V6, excessive low RPM torque, about 200 hp.

The 4.9 is a very poor engine to try and get more out of. It is difficult/expensive to upgrade and results are typically disappointing unless you go with a power adder of some kind.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-30-2013).]

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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 04:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So are there any other v8 engine that are as easily installed that deliver more power or that you can get a lot of power out of it
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Gall757
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Report this Post10-30-2013 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gotta have a V8?
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I know it sounds stupid but I really want the sound of a v8 witch you can't get out of a v6 and with that I want it to be powerful
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Gall757
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Report this Post10-30-2013 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll just sit back and watch from here on out.......
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok anyone else know?
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Justinbart
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Report this Post10-30-2013 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you want any kind of power you'll want to go with the 3800.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
10.91@133.1

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Report this Post10-30-2013 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSClick Here to Email BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My Fiero with turbo and low restriction exhaust sounds better than any V8 I can recall.

To each his own - there are some that go into withdrawal and figure their 'nads will shrink if they don't have a thundering V8 in their cars.
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Has anyone turbocharged a 4.9 or twin turbo cause that has to add some power and yeah if I can't get over 300 whp out of a v8 that will go in there I will probably go with the 3.8
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Report this Post10-30-2013 05:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for woodyhereClick Here to Email woodyhereSend a Private Message to woodyhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think the sbc is probable one of the easiest swaps I have done. There are a ton of performance parts. The exhaust is easy to build. lots of people have done this swap. You don't have to have it computer controlled. There are a lot of folks in the forum that are a great resource. A company in Canada, can't remember the name, also has V8 to Fiero swap kits. Go one line and do a search. If you use aluminum heads and intake, the weight difference isn't a killer. I like the kits that provide different length axles that allow you to keep the engine more to the drivers side. It keeps the V belt inside the engine compartment and the front valve cover clear of the deck hinge. It's just my preference for engine placement, but not the only way to skin the cat. I have a roller cammed 427 sbc and the Getrag 5 spd. I am very pleased with the performance. I have front and rear sway bars and 11.25 brakes. Handling and stopping is excellent. The mileage is crap!
Have fun planning!

Woody

------------------
woodys 427

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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So do you need a conversion kit to swap the 2.8 for the sbc
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is the cadillac northstar a easy swap
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Patrick
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Report this Post10-30-2013 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

So do you need a conversion kit to swap the 2.8 for the sbc


That was answered in the very first response you got.

I might be wrong, but me thinks you're starting to troll.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

So do you need a conversion kit to swap the 2.8 for the sbc


Not if you make the pieces yourself. If you have no experience making things you will be much better off buying them first time.
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I wouldn't be swapping the engine my machanic friend would so how many hours do u think it would take him to do it with a sbc swap cause I want to keep it under 3500
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fieroguru
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Report this Post10-30-2013 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

So are there any other v8 engine that are as easily installed that deliver more power or that you can get a lot of power out of it


Short answer is no.

The 4.9 is the cheapest/easiest, but limited in potential.

The SBC requires an adapter plate, custom flywheel, balancer and reworking the entire accessory drive (along with relocating the oil filter, running a mini-starter and some type of water pump - most are using electric these days). If you can buy the needed install parts used, then it doesn't have to cost a lot, and the power is only limited by your wallet, but many old SBC's in stock condition are sub 200hp.

The N* is 280 - 300 fwhp stock, but it is a very tight fit. There are somewhat fewer mechanical issues to work through, but the ECM side is more challenging. There are upgrades available to increase performance, but they are premium priced.

LS(x) family - easily the most expensive to install, but again power potential will only be limited by your wallet.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll be getting my carb'd 4.9 dyno'd in the foreseeable future. It pulls hard to 6000 with a stock cam and heads

I am strongly considering in investing in the Allante valve trees though, because I don't think GM intended the engine to have the 6000 red line that mine has.

If you stick with the factory ECM and electronics, the engine will behave like a stock Caddy. In other words, it will fall flat on its face after about 5400 rpm.

A friend of mine built HER86GT and it was a turbo'd 12 sec. 4.9. Yes it can be turbo'd but it needs a whole lot of plumbing, a custom chip and what not.

The basic 4.9 though, is the cheapest and easiest v8 swap for the car.

Like the man says, a free sbc will still cost you way more than a 4.9 swap all costs in.

I am guessing here, but I think the carb'd engine is at about 220 hp and over 300 ftlbs vs the stock which is 200 and 275.

Arn

The 4.9 doesn't run hot, but if you have a non-AC Fiero, you have a single core rad (found that out with mine) and the single core rad will not keep up with the 4.9. I bought a 3 core and it does not overheat.

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 10-30-2013).]

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Report this Post10-30-2013 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You should see if you can find some people locally who could let you try driving a 4.9 and a 3800sc..two of the most common swaps. You'll get a better idea what that amount of hp/torque feels like...
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok thanks guys my choices have officially come down to the north* or a gm 350 the place I'm get I will it from has a great deal on a 350 and they have north* too but the guy said that the head gaskets need to be replaced what will be the least expensive over all btw the 350 is 550 and the north* is 400
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Report this Post10-30-2013 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for steve308Send a Private Message to steve308Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
V8 kit for sale in the mall -----
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-30-2013 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What?
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Neils88
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Report this Post10-30-2013 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

... I want to keep it under 3500


I'm thinking you need to do a lot more research before you make a decision. Even with your friend doing the work for free, the cost of a Northstar or a SBC will likely be a lot higher than you think. If I recall correctly, the Northstar may be a bit cheaper of the two, but I've read it's a really tough swap for the result.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MarkSClick Here to Email MarkSSend a Private Message to MarkSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

What?


http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/067633.html

BR's,

Mark
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Report this Post10-30-2013 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

Well I wouldn't be swapping the engine my machanic friend would so how many hours do u think it would take him to do it with a sbc swap cause I want to keep it under 3500


Your car is never going to get finished.

No offence to your friend or you, but these sorts of "deals" very rarely work out how the owner wants them to. If your friend is a mechanic, he's going to spend most of his time working on stuff that's going to pay him good money, not on the side job for a friend. Swapping a V8 into a Fiero is no easy task, and it's not going to get done right, in a weekend.

If you want to get it done, and can't do it yourself, then save your money until you can afford to pay someone to do it right, and on time.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post10-31-2013 05:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

Ok thanks guys my choices have officially come down to the north* or a gm 350 the place I'm get I will it from has a great deal on a 350 and they have north* too but the guy said that the head gaskets need to be replaced what will be the least expensive over all btw the 350 is 550 and the north* is 400


If the N* already has a bad head gasket, then you will likely need to timesert the block when you fix it.
http://www.cadillacforums.c...esert-procedure.html
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-31-2013 06:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So if I repair the head gaskets and tap the block again how likely will it be for this to happen again is this like a thing that you have to do every couple of years with this engine
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Report this Post10-31-2013 07:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have 2 friends who both tried Northstars. They are both driving 3800's now.(one sc and the other turbo) The Northstar is a nice motor but once it needs to be opened you will have problems, particularly sealing it. The engine doesn't like mods. The 4.9 has limited mods available, the 350 has all sorts of mod support, and the 3800 can be built up allot without modding the internals

Of the 3, the sbc is the most expensive and the most complicated. If you do it though, you have a dependable big hp engine, and you'll need the tranny to keep up with it. I know that even the 4.9 needs a heavier clutch for the stick trannies, and I know the auto needs a better stall converter for performance, not function.

Cost wise, your sbc will cost as much and be more work than either the 4.9 or 3800
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Kfa171
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Report this Post10-31-2013 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Kfa171Click Here to Email Kfa171Send a Private Message to Kfa171Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How much hp can you get out if a 3.8
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n7vrz
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Report this Post10-31-2013 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for n7vrzClick Here to Email n7vrzSend a Private Message to n7vrzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

How much hp can you get out if a 3.8


How deep is your wallet? The more HP you want the more $$$ it is going to cost.
A stock 3.8 supercharged engine puts out around 230 - 250 HP. The easiest way to get 300 HP out of one would be to turbo charge it.
If I were doing this I would also swap in the automatic that came with the engine.
There are lots of build threads on Pennock's on turbo charging the 3.8 engine. Do a search. Then PM the builders and ask questions. Like how long did it take to build? How much money was spent? How many custom parts needed to be made? Who tuned the ECM? Which ECM did you use?
Can you do a cheap $$$ swap and get 300HP? Maybe. Would it last? Maybe.
I have a question. Why the fixation on 300HP?

[This message has been edited by n7vrz (edited 10-31-2013).]

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Report this Post10-31-2013 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
N*, LS4, or 4.9, if you want a V8. I haven't seen many SBC swaps that weren't total hack jobs.

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Punctuation will make the swap much easier


agreed.

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Arns85GT
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Report this Post10-31-2013 10:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

How much hp can you get out if a 3.8


I have a friend who has a 3800 turbo which is around 500 hp at over 30 lbs of boost. Big turbo, and it is scary fast

Arn
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Report this Post10-31-2013 11:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageClick Here to Email ArchieSend a Private Message to ArchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

Hi I have a 1986 and a half fiero with the 5 spd getrag and I wanna put a v8 but I don want to have to modify anything a lot and I was wondering about the gm 350 EFI and how much needs to be modified to put it in and also I wanted to know the fiero is a open differential too right?


Doing any engine swap into any car is in it'self a Modification. So the fact that you want to do an engine swap is a contradiction to not wanting to modify anything.

 
quote
Originally posted by Kfa171:

I found a great deal on a gm 350 so how much would I have to do to drop that into my fiero


Putting a 350 SBC into a Fiero is not all that more expensive than any of the other swaps that have been suggested.

Yes you do need an adapter plate & a few other custom parts. My Master-Build V-8 conversion kit is a little over $3K. But that kit is going to provide everything you need to put a SBC into a Fiero. Add an engine & engine controls & you've got what you're going to need. It includes everything from the performance clutch to the Exhaust system to the cooling system upgrades & it's all new parts.

AND the kit comes with a DVD instruction video, written Instructions & a complete parts list for the other parts you'll need. It also is supported by my 800 number that you can call to ask any questions you might come up with during the build.

My Economy V-8 kit for the SBC is only $950.00 & it includes all of the custom designed parts you'll need for the swap. At some point during your build, if you're going to build it the way we do them in house, you will need the parts that are in the Master-Build kit. A lot of the other stuff you'll need you will also need if you're going any of the other swaps that have been suggested.

These other parts, to get you up to the Master-Buildkit level, you can pick up as you go. You can buy them used or new at swap meets or from parts store or speed shops.

And many of the parts in the Master-Build kit are items that you'd need to be addressing with any engine swap.

For example:

1) Let's say you want to make 300 to 350hp. Any engine that's going to make that much power is going to create more heat. You'll need a larger radiator & the hoses & connections to hook up the engine cooling system to the Fiero. Those parts are all included in my Master-Build kit. Or you can buy them on your own with my parts list.

2) You're going to need a performance clutch with any stick shift swap. My Master-Build kit includes the clutch or you can buy the clutch that my instructions suggest.

3) You're going to need an exhaust system. My Master-Build kit includes the exhaust system or you can build your own based on the detailed instructions in my Video instructions. Yeah, I know, the advocates of most of these other swaps will say that you can use the exhaust from the junkyard 3.8 or 4.9 or 4.6 you buy. Those are not true dual exhaust systems. Most of the guys advocate those swaps are using the rusty old exhaust manifolds & crossover pipes that came on that junkyard engine. But they still have to build those rusty parts & create the rest of the exhaust from there.

If you build a 3.8 or 4.9 or N-Star to make good power & to be reliable, then you're going to spend a lot more money on the engine & the tuning than you'd spend on the SBC.

Some have said that the SBC is the most expensive. I don't agree. If you compare apples to apples, I think you'll find that the SBC is very close in in final cost to many of the other suggested engines.

NONE of these other swaps that have been suggested come with a detailed instruction video that tells you what to do & what not to do & goes step by step thru the build like my kit does.

If planned properly & if you follow my instructions, you should be able to complete the SBC swap in 35 to 40 hours.

I fear that you're mechanic buddy could lose interest in the project if he had to spend 2 or 3 times as much time trying to get a 3.8 built to 500hp or to try to figure out a way to hookup the N-Star to make it run correctly. Let along the time it would take you guys to find the best mounting instructions ta make it all happen before you mechanic friend loses interest.

Hope that helps

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 10-31-2013).]

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