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3800 Mount Drawings? And 3800 Series 1 Question by Big Paul
Started on: 10-26-2013 05:35 PM
Replies: 26 (1148 views)
Last post by: qwikgta on 12-13-2013 04:09 PM
Big Paul
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Report this Post10-26-2013 05:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm planning on doing a low budget 3800 swap into my 86 gt five speed over the summer, and I want to start collecting parts and figuring out everything. I want to have my car out of action for the least amount of time possible. I've read up on a lot of stuff, but I was wondering if anyone had any drawings or Inventor/Solidworks files of a set of mounts. I've searched, but It came up dry. I don't have a welder, but I have access to one in my engineering labs, so I can't bring in my engine and cradle and align everything that way.

EDIT:
I also have the option to buy a perfectly running 94 Buick Regal Custom with 120,000 miles with a 3800 n/a (Series one I believe). The whole car for $100. I've read that the L26's aren't very exciting swaps, the internals are weaker, and they run higher compression. I would prefer a series 2 3800sc because of the increased power/stronger internals. I have a target of 300hp and I believe that it would be easier to reach with the series 2 3800sc. Would a L26 bottom end hold up to boost and or a wet nitrous system? It just seems like too good of a deal to pass up.

I had my friend who is selling the car pop his hood and found out that it is a series 2 3800 Na. I took some pictures. He wants $100 for the car because that's what they would probably offer him at a scrap yard. The engine runs flawlessly. Would it be possible to get 300 hp out of a series two L36 with a manual Getrag? I was thinking about turboing it or adding a wet nitrous oxide system.

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Big Paul (edited 10-27-2013).]

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John DeHaan
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Report this Post10-27-2013 09:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for John DeHaanSend a Private Message to John DeHaanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I could use these also
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mitchjl22
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Report this Post10-27-2013 12:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd like them as well.

Edit: Don't do the Series I.... little to no options for aftermarket.

[This message has been edited by mitchjl22 (edited 10-27-2013).]

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Big Paul
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Report this Post10-27-2013 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It seems like drawings for the mounts would be a good thing to post online as a resource for people doing the swap. If anyone with some mounts could make a rough dimensioned sketch of them, I could put that into an AutoCAD file and make some nice part drawings to keep online. I'm not looking to take any business away from any of the vendors, I just am trying to do this swap without spending an arm and a leg to buy everything. And I know there are other people out there in the same situation as me.

I also found out that the motor is a series 2 3800 na. I was going off of wikipedia, but I had my buddy open his hood today. I updated my original post. I assume $100 for a full car that runs and drives great with a 3800 na series 2 is a good deal? I took some pictures. It has the plastic intake which I've read is on the L36's. Also, the car is badged series 2 so I know it most likely wasn't changed over to a series 2.



[This message has been edited by Big Paul (edited 10-27-2013).]

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NetCam
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Report this Post10-27-2013 08:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
$100? I'd say that's a sweet deal!
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Report this Post10-27-2013 10:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
$100 is a great deal. I think that's the motor to get for turbo applications, which you could definitely make 300hp that way

-Mitch
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Big Paul
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Report this Post10-29-2013 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome! I will plan on picking up the car once he gets his new one then!

Someone has to have a set of brackets laying around that they can measure for everyone. It would be enormously helpful!
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Report this Post10-30-2013 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Big Paul:

Awesome! I will plan on picking up the car once he gets his new one then!

Someone has to have a set of brackets laying around that they can measure for everyone. It would be enormously helpful!


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Report this Post10-30-2013 07:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can take some photos and measurements of the next mount I make up if some one wants to try and work with that to make more I am ok with it. Dan

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DARN Cars now open with
Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation.
Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars.
Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.

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Big Paul
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Report this Post10-30-2013 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

I can take some photos and measurements of the next mount I make up if some one wants to try and work with that to make more I am ok with it. Dan



If your okay with me making technical drawings of it, and posting them online as a resource for people doing the swap, then that would be great! I won't be able to test one that has been made from the drawings until this summer though. But it shouldn't take long to get drawings off Autodesk once I have dimensions.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for John DeHaanSend a Private Message to John DeHaanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fieroflyer...Big Paul... that would be sweet!!!

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Report this Post10-30-2013 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They fit in quite nicely. You'll like the motor a lot. I do.



------------------


Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

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Big Paul
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Report this Post10-31-2013 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh man that looks sweet! I'm excited to start collecting parts for my swap! How is that dog bone set up holding up? I've heard that a lot of people are getting the alternator mounts from a gtp (I don't remember what year, If someone knows that would be helpful!) which is a low mount/dog bone combo. What transmission are you running? I think I read somewhere that L36's are internally balanced, so we can just have the flywheel machined neutral. (Again if someone can confirm this, that'd be great!)

No news on the mount drawings. Still waiting for FIEROFLYER to make a set he can take measurements/pictures of! (No rush! I won't be doing the swap until the summer anyways!)
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Report this Post12-06-2013 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Big Paul:

Oh man that looks sweet! I'm excited to start collecting parts for my swap! How is that dog bone set up holding up? I've heard that a lot of people are getting the alternator mounts from a gtp (I don't remember what year, If someone knows that would be helpful!) which is a low mount/dog bone combo. What transmission are you running? I think I read somewhere that L36's are internally balanced, so we can just have the flywheel machined neutral. (Again if someone can confirm this, that'd be great!)

No news on the mount drawings. Still waiting for FIEROFLYER to make a set he can take measurements/pictures of! (No rush! I won't be doing the swap until the summer anyways!)


Dog bone is working great. I run the stock alternator mount, and just notched the deck lid. I think you'd have to notch it even less if you went with a post '98 setup, as the alternator is a newer style and smaller. I'm running my L36 behind an isuzu, and it's a great setup. Smooth shifting, great highway legs. I know people will tell you that they are grenades, but I don't sidestep the clutch, and mine is an '88 isuzu with 60k miles on it. So far, it's the best shifting trans I've ever had in any of my fieros. The L36's ARE NOT INTERNALLY BALANCED. They are externally balanced on the flywheel, and NEED that balance maintained. I used a factory L36 camaro flywheel and had them machine the front (friction surface) down to the correct thickness. Leave the weight on the engine facing side of the flywheel alone.

------------------


Build thread for my 88 + 3800NA swap

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revin
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Report this Post12-06-2013 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
3800 and 5 sp ?
use stock 5 sp mounts (I like Rodneys)
for the front..use one fron a 95 Trans Sport van.(modified with a cut or two)
= low budget
or
............
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revin
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Report this Post12-06-2013 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

revin

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modded like this



------------------

88 GT, 3800SC, Getrag 5sp. 12" Vette Rotors,Custom stuff done

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Report this Post12-06-2013 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

revin

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dp

[This message has been edited by revin (edited 12-06-2013).]

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Report this Post12-06-2013 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cmechmannClick Here to Email cmechmannSend a Private Message to cmechmannEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For some reading search GMtuners 3800 Fiero engine swap. There are some decent pics. Also good info on the electrical.
If you can I would stay away from the 94-96 PCMs. The 94s were mutant ODB1 or 1.5. The 95-96s seem to have flashing issues. Or to be more specific, finding base rom files for.
You will also want to hunt down a Firebird/Camaro standard transmission 3800 flywheel.

[This message has been edited by cmechmann (edited 12-06-2013).]

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Big Paul
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Report this Post12-10-2013 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by revin:



modded like this






Will this work with the stock Getrag trans mounts? I thought most people used this with the same trans mounts from the Trans Sport van? And then when it comes time to install, I will just have to drill holes where it matches up? or are they already there? If this will work with the Getrag then I will go ahead and start looking for one!
EDIT: Hmm it is rearranging this when I post it. I'm asking Revin this question. And those are pictures of how you modified the Trans Sport Engine mount correct?

 
quote
For some reading search GMtuners 3800 Fiero engine swap. There are some decent pics. Also good info on the electrical.
If you can I would stay away from the 94-96 PCMs. The 94s were mutant ODB1 or 1.5. The 95-96s seem to have flashing issues. Or to be more specific, finding base rom files for.
You will also want to hunt down a Firebird/Camaro standard transmission 3800 flywheel.


I've been been looking over their swap info a lot. The car I have is a 97 or 98 Regal (I need to double check) so I don't think I should have any problem with the electrical issues you outlined. I've also read that the computer from this car my not fit in the stock Fiero location? I'm going to find a flywheel from a scrapyard and have it machined to the correct height. Then I just need to figure out which heater hoses to buy, how to plumb the heater core into it, Oil filter adapter, and a few other small things.

What parts should I remove from the donor car? I don't need the fuel pump do I? so far I am thinking:
Engine
Wiring harness
Computer
Battery
Battery Cable (For a front mount set up, I belive the battery is in the back of the Regal)
A bunch of different colored wires for making my harness
Maybe the exhaust system? I'm thinking about using Mustang headers and might be able to use some of it if it is the same ID as the headers
Check if it is ALDL2 and if so grab the plug

[This message has been edited by Big Paul (edited 12-10-2013).]

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revin
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Report this Post12-10-2013 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
cut the mount as shown.
The sides bolt right up to the block. Yes make your own holes after careful measureing and alinement of both eng and getrag.
The getrag is mounted with the stock mounts or upgraded poly ones.
The trans mounts do have slots to help aline all together better.
Stock axles!:-)
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Big Paul
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Report this Post12-10-2013 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by revin:

cut the mount as shown.
The sides bolt right up to the block. Yes make your own holes after careful measureing and alinement of both eng and getrag.
The getrag is mounted with the stock mounts or upgraded poly ones.
The trans mounts do have slots to help aline all together better.
Stock axles!:-)


Exactly what I wanted to hear! Going to start looking for one of those mounts! Thank you very much!
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post12-11-2013 03:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cmechmann:

For some reading search GMtuners 3800 Fiero engine swap. There are some decent pics. Also good info on the electrical.
If you can I would stay away from the 94-96 PCMs. The 94s were mutant ODB1 or 1.5. The 95-96s seem to have flashing issues. Or to be more specific, finding base rom files for.
You will also want to hunt down a Firebird/Camaro standard transmission 3800 flywheel.



You want a 98 - 02 PCM. The are flat on one side and will fit the stock PCM location.

Your donor car will indeed have the OBD2 plug.

The Regal's wiring is longer than the full sized FWD cars. You most likely won't need extra wire. Are you planning on making the harness yourself?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-11-2013).]

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revin
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Report this Post12-11-2013 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for revinSend a Private Message to revinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Agreed with Phonedawgz.

Use the "extra wires" from the auto trans. or other wires not needed in the donnor harness since you will not be using them.
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Big Paul
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Report this Post12-11-2013 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, I am planning on tackling the harness myself! I want to mount the PCM in the stock location so I'll start searching around for a 98-02 PCM. You guys are saying that I won't need any more wires than the ones that are already in the harness? I want to make the harness while the engine is out of the car, but I'm not sure the exact length it will need to be to reach the stock PCM location. If I make the harness too long then I can just keep the extra wire by the computer. It's better to be too long than too short. Looking at some old pictures I have of the glove box removed, I think there should be room
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Report this Post12-12-2013 05:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a 2004 SIII NA motor in my 88 GT. Not running yet, but i'll have it done this spring.

Look over my thread, I made my harness. I did it with the motor out of the car. I built a "jig" out of some scrap wood and a ductape roll (for the hole in the firewall). Look at the pics, it will make sence. My goal was to hide all the wires, and get rid of all the ones I didn't need. I think its real clean. I want to do this to my LS3 swap now.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089035.html

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 12-12-2013).]

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Big Paul
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Report this Post12-12-2013 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

I have a 2004 SIII NA motor in my 88 GT. Not running yet, but i'll have it done this spring.

Look over my thread, I made my harness. I did it with the motor out of the car. I built a "jig" out of some scrap wood and a ductape roll (for the hole in the firewall). Look at the pics, it will make sence. My goal was to hide all the wires, and get rid of all the ones I didn't need. I think its real clean. I want to do this to my LS3 swap now.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089035.html

Rob



Wow that's a very clean swap! I'd be happy if mine looked half as clean! I will probably end up creating a similar jig to get the wire lengths as close as possible. I really like your idea of starting a spreadsheet to keep track of cost. I just threw one together and set it up to do all the math for me. I think it will be cool to see how much this engine swap is actually going to cost me, and how cheaply I can do it for without sacrificing reliability.

I plan to hit the scrap yards in a few weeks while I am on Christmas vacation from classes to start collecting some parts. My plan is to collect all the parts that I will need before hand and to make a list of what needs to be done. Replace some gaskets, and clean and prep the engine/ build the wiring harness. Then this summer I will take a week or two off of work to swap the engines and trouble shoot what problems may come up. Does that sound like a reasonable timeframe for a first swap?

I figure this would be the best way to do it with my car out of commission for the least amount of time. I considered finding another cradle to build it up on, but with using the same transmission, clutch, struts, and rear sway bar that are already in the car it wouldn't be worth it.
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Report this Post12-13-2013 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for qwikgtaClick Here to Email qwikgtaSend a Private Message to qwikgtaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

I have a 2004 SIII NA motor in my 88 GT. Not running yet, but i'll have it done this spring.

Look over my thread, I made my harness. I did it with the motor out of the car. I built a "jig" out of some scrap wood and a ductape roll (for the hole in the firewall). Look at the pics, it will make sence. My goal was to hide all the wires, and get rid of all the ones I didn't need. I think its real clean. I want to do this to my LS3 swap now.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089035.html

Rob



I forgot to add that I even added an "extention" on to the end of my home-made rig. It was so that I could wire up the C500 that sits way out by the rear strut. Kind of made a big "L" with the long end taped to the rig and the short end the approx distance from the hole in the fire wall. I measured everything 3-4X and then made my cuts. I didn't wire up new pin ends, what I did was I cut the end off another same-year harness, about 18" or so after the ECM connection. My goal was to run the wires the way I wanted to, not the way GM did it. Mostly because for us the engine/trans is facing the oppisite way. GM did hide a lot of crap on the backside of the motor, but for us, that side is now the front. I also stayed with the same color and wire size, so if I had to lenghten a Green w/ black stripe wire 6-8", I used the same green w/black stripe wire. Having the 18" extra wire w/ GM pin ends helped out. I would say that I had to extend 15-20 wires, and had to shorten a few less.

In the pics, the only wires you can see are for the injectors. Yes other wires can be seen, but again, the goal was to re-route the harness so that the wires are hidden. I still have to work on how the firewall side looks, so the pics on my thread are not the "finished" ones.

Good luck

------------------


88 Coupe, CJB T-TOP, LS376 and a GT clip
88 GT, SIII 3800NA/Auto swap underway
LS Build Thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/083204.html
LS on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAH9yjw6XR0
3800 build thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089035.html

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