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3.8 grand national engine into a fiero? by northstar
Started on: 10-19-2013 11:04 AM
Replies: 13 (993 views)
Last post by: N3M3S1S on 10-21-2013 06:38 PM
northstar
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Report this Post10-19-2013 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for northstarClick Here to Email northstarSend a Private Message to northstarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
is anyone put a 3.8 turbocharged engine out of a grand national into the Fiero will they fit I have the engine and I have the car how much is involved in doing this what thanks everyone
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NetCam
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Report this Post10-19-2013 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It can be done, but from what I've seen, it's a lot of work for not a lot of benefit. Consensus seems to be that you're better off with the 3800sc from a front wheel drive car, as the GN 3.8L was built for RWD, so the transmission will be an issue.
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fierocarparts
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Report this Post10-19-2013 12:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Also, if going fast is your endgame, the GN is better left in the RWD chassis.
I THINK most are getting the FWD 3.8 and just adding a turbo.
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MarkS
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Report this Post10-19-2013 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MarkSClick Here to Email MarkSSend a Private Message to MarkSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you can find an '85 VIN 3 3.8 FWD long or short block (20 bolt oil pan), then all the RWD GN stuff will swap over to it and the transmission issue goes away. The 85 VIN 3 has the same rolled fillet style crankshaft journals as the 85-87 GN motor and is critical to longevity. The 86 VIN B and 87 VIN 3 FWD motors are also similar but have the crankshaft driven oil pump and no distributor so the GN cam position sensor won't fit, don't know if the 86-87 cam position sensor will work the same as the GN but it might, others may know. The 86-87 FWD cylinder heads are different then the 85 VIN & GN heads and are used on the turbo T/A.

Here is my long-dragging -on swap thread regarding the VIN 3.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/107335.html

There is still a lot of support out there for the GN 3.8.

Hope this helps.

BR's,

Mark

edit added swap link

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86 SE V6 4 speed
86 SE V6 Auto
2008 G6 GT "Street" Coupe
2005 Buick 3.6 Rendezvous
2001 Olds Silhouette (AKA The Band Van)

[This message has been edited by MarkS (edited 10-19-2013).]

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northstar
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Report this Post10-19-2013 05:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for northstarClick Here to Email northstarSend a Private Message to northstarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sure does thanks all,,sooo you can turbo an already supercharged 3.8??? what???
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Shill
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Report this Post10-19-2013 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ShillSend a Private Message to ShillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by northstar:

sure does thanks all,,sooo you can turbo an already supercharged 3.8??? what???


There are both SC and NA versions of the 3800. Most people are opting for the NA version if they are adding turbos.
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Justinbart
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Report this Post10-19-2013 06:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Shill:


There are both SC and NA versions of the 3800. Most people are opting for the NA version if they are adding turbos.


Best to start out with the Sc3800, remove the supercharger and put an NA intake on.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
10.91@133.1

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engine man
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Report this Post10-19-2013 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fog is running a stage 2 rwd race engine thats why it mates right up to the 425 Turbo Hydromatic

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 10-19-2013).]

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sniper69
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Report this Post10-20-2013 05:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sniper69Send a Private Message to sniper69Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by northstar:

sure does thanks all,,sooo you can turbo an already supercharged 3.8??? what???



http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...090219-2-087098.html This might be of interest to you.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post10-21-2013 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There was a Fiero shop (Wi or Mn I think) years ago that did GN conversions all the time. I priced it myself for the Ferrari kit but thought it was too high.
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VF1Skullangel
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Report this Post10-21-2013 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VF1SkullangelClick Here to visit VF1Skullangel's HomePageClick Here to Email VF1SkullangelSend a Private Message to VF1SkullangelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Its been done before but its going to be very pricey to do. If your dead serious about it my advice would be to go get a 3800 L36 engine (Out of a Camaro or Firebird and also found in Grand Prix GT's that are the non GTP cars) and just get a garrett turbo like a T4. it will be pretty much the same set up you would get with a Buick Grand National engine. Just less complicated, cheaper and easier.
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post10-21-2013 04:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As others in this thread have said, it is better to start out with a FWD 3800 (Series 1, 2, or 3 - your choice) if you are doing this conversion in a Fiero. All of these engines will directly bolt up to a transverse type transmission (manual or automatic of your choice) which means no bellhousing adapter plate is required - as one would be if you tried using the RWD 3.8 block with one of these transmissions.

If you want to go turbo, I recommend you start out with using a Series 2 or 3 engine that came from the factory with a supercharger. It'll come with the stronger connecting rods, pistons, and pins (than what N/A versions of these engines got). It'll also have the lower compression ratio (8.5:1) vs. the N/A's 9.4:1 which will allow you to run more boost and help keep detonation under control if using pump gasoline. I would stay away from Series 1 and older FWD 3800/3.8L engines simply because of lack of aftermarket support concerning performance parts.

What I recommend you do is remove the supercharger and install an N/A intake. My recommendations are either the all-aluminum L26 Series 3 N/A intake or the 95-02 F-body 3800 intake. The 95-98 F-body intake would probably be the better choice since it came with a cable-op throttle body unlike the later 99-02 F-body intakes. The L26 intakes only came with DBW throttle bodies, but you can buy adapter plates to convert over to using a cable-op throttle body easily and cheaply enough.

Using an N/A intake on an engine with SC heads gives you 2 sets of injector holes since the SC heads have injector holes machined right in them (N/A engines have the same heads, but the injector holes were not machined in them). You will either need to plug 1 set of injector holes or switch over to N/A heads. I am running a set of ported Series 2 N/A heads on my SC Series 2 block in my Fiero using a turbo.

As far as twin charging is concerned (ie: running a supercharger and a turbo), I would recommend against it. The supercharger is going to end up acting as a restriction once the turbo's boost comes up and all it is going to do at that point is just heat up the incoming air more. Ditch the blower and run a good turbo and intercooler and you'll never have a want for the supercharger. Modern turbocharger technology has advanced so much in the past few years the issues of "turbo lag" are pretty much a thing of the past - as long as you are willing to spend the money on a quality, name-brand turbo and not something made in China, South America, etc.

Having said that, I've done some pretty incredible things with an 80's technology turbo (from an 87 GN) on my 3800 Series 2. So you don't need to spend a lot of money to end up with a pretty fast Fiero if you go the 3800 Turbo route.

-ryan

------------------
OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 10-21-2013).]

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engine man
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Report this Post10-21-2013 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A 3800 and a 3.8 are not the same engine the old 3.8 rwd has a taller deck hight by a bunch and the 3.8 has much longer rods you will need an adapter to bolt it to the tranny the oiling system is not as good as the newer 3800 it is only a 2 bolt main unless you go buy a stage 2 block so the 3800 is a much better choice it will save you time money and headaches
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N3M3S1S
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Report this Post10-21-2013 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for N3M3S1SClick Here to visit N3M3S1S's HomePageClick Here to Email N3M3S1SSend a Private Message to N3M3S1SEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Or you can just put that motor in my 79 Cutlass. Lol
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