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GT with a perfectly good 17k mile engine, yank it and put in a LX9 3500 by jcmiracle_man
Started on: 10-04-2013 07:32 PM
Replies: 121 (3133 views)
Last post by: jcmiracle_man on 07-06-2014 07:18 PM
jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-04-2013 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
[url=]What it looked like when bought a few months ago[/url]

First thing I did after getting it was a paint job, my first ever. It had been sitting in the sun for years and the clear coat was baked.
[img]





Just a start much more to come

[This message has been edited by jcmiracle_man (edited 10-04-2013).]

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Report this Post10-04-2013 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So after ironing out the wrinkles of a car that had to be sitting for decades. It had a terrible higher rpm buck and miss.I ended up replacing the distributor, coil, and fuel pump. I also shed about 10 lbs. of rust out of the tank. Ran perfectly but man this this has much to be desired in the power dept. Somethings gotta change.
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-04-2013 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Bye Bye



Not my first engine pull. But my first on a Fiero. Wow thats a whole different ballgame.
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-04-2013 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

jcmiracle_man

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Member since Jul 2013

I really didn't like the idea of lifting by the latch hook. So I used a 4x4 in front of the cradle. There was enough movement that I had to keep adjusting the ramps to keep it from rolling off.
It was hairy!
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-04-2013 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


So I have to give some kudos to Superdave from 60degreeV6.com and also V6Z24.com
I bought his built LX9 3500
http://60degreev6.com/forum...0!-(and-other-parts)

I have some video of it on a dyno run. 275WHP. Did some math on an online calculator and it translates to about 320 at the crank.
Pulled a 13.07 in a quarter mile.
http://youtu.be/cSLD92bac6A
http://youtu.be/vCdRKvMlmck

Thanks Dave

[This message has been edited by jcmiracle_man (edited 10-05-2013).]

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Report this Post10-04-2013 10:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NoMoreRicersClick Here to Email NoMoreRicersSend a Private Message to NoMoreRicersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post10-04-2013 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rbell2915Click Here to Email rbell2915Send a Private Message to rbell2915Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by NoMoreRicers:



I second that!

Looking good. This may come in handy in the future
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Report this Post10-05-2013 01:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sleevePAPASend a Private Message to sleevePAPAEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice!

Always loved the wicked noise that engine made.
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Raydar
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Report this Post10-05-2013 01:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice!

What's it using for an ECM?
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-05-2013 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
7730 OBDI. I'm repinning the fiero harness rather than using the one I got with the engine. It's going to make for a cleaner install.
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Raydar
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Report this Post10-05-2013 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I look forward to updates.
I've actually been considering something like this.

It looks, from the pics, that you have a 4 speed. (Nothing wrong with that.)
Are you going to keep that or do something different?
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-05-2013 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thought I'd post some more info on the engine.

LX9 3500 from a 2004 Malibu.
-Stock forged crank and powdered metal rods.
-Custom grind solid core roller cam: .539 intake/.549 exhaust. 288in/293ex advertised, 110 LSA
-Comp 26915 valve springs and Comp hardened retainers. Modified lifters with LT1 springs
-Smith Brothers custom pushrods
-75mm LS1 throttle body
-Heavily ported cylinder heads, Ported upper and lower intake manifold
-TCE external crank trigger
-3400 fuel rail with a 55 PSI FPR and 33lb/hr injectors from a Ford Turbo/super coupe Thunderbird.
-RWD 3.4 f-body timing cover. Alternator and A/C compressor mounted on LH (Front) side. This took some doing. I'll detail later.
-Alternator bracket from britishcarconversions.com


This engine/tune was originally setup for headers. I didn't feel that was practical on a Fiero because of clearance and heat. Most of the 3500 build I've seen use 3400 logs to single exhaust. I'm using factory 3500 manifolds with heat shields. They appear to flow very well. I've decided to do true dual exhaust. Some way, some how. Even if I have to notch the rear bumper to clear mufflers although I don't think it will come to that.

These are the style manifolds I'm using.

Front firewall side

Rear trunk side


These are the mufflers I'm planning to use: Dynomax 17262 Ultra Flo Polished Stainless Mufflers. I still think it was a screwup on Amazons part but I got 2 of these for 33.50 ea. Not complaining.
They measuse 9"x4" 14"long. I think 1 will fit on each side with some close radius U-bends to connect to the manifolds.
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-05-2013 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes I'm keeping my 4-speed. It's low miles and has comparable ratios to the 5-speed.


This is the clutch I'm using. Stage 3 Supposed to be rated for 300hp.


Here it is on the engine. You can also see I've turned the intake around and installed a FWD thermostat housing.

Plan on installing a surge tank for coolant fill and air purge. I got a line to connect the top port of the tank to the air bleed on the t-stat housing. Anyone know the proper location to plumb the lower tank port/hose?
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Report this Post10-05-2013 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thought I'd give a little detail on my A/C bracket. In case anyone finds it useful to copy. The RWD timing cover would clear the standard 3x00 A/C compressor but mounted it way too far back.



I'm using the stock mounting holes but sliding it forward on this bracket. I bought 3/16" x 1 1/2" bar stock from my local hardware store. cut to length and spaced apart by clamping a 7/16 bolt between them. Then just welded up and you can see I had to clearance the front part for the timing cover. The bottom bracket is about the same.
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-05-2013 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Cleaned up the mostly empty cradle. Cleaned off some minor surface rust and a fresh coat of rust proof paint. Replaced mounts for the engine and tranny. I filled the voids of the front engine mount with window-weld. Cradle bushings are still healthy so I'm gonna leave them be.
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-05-2013 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here it is bolted up to the 4-speed and installed on the cradle.

Never before have I had such a rough time lining up a transmission to the engine. The coarse splines make it near impossible.
A/C compressor had to be removed to line up the mounts. But it does clear and has been reinstalled since.
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Report this Post10-05-2013 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finally getting this thread caught up to about where I'm at in the process.


Here it is finally in the car.
The exhaust manifolds do clear with about an inch to spare on each.
The alternator was too high and I mangled the belt adjuster against the decklid hinge. After cutting the adjuster down to just under 4" and locating on a lower hole of the water pump it all clears with room to spare. My final belt length ended up being 540k6. It was originally 575k6.


This is my air intake/ filter setup roughed in.

Currently I just finished mounting the coils/ign module to the rear trunk wall. Completed modifying the wiring harness and installed. And spent some time looking through an entire isle of radiator hoses and found a couple that work great.
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Report this Post10-05-2013 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jcmiracle_man:
...
Plan on installing a surge tank for coolant fill and air purge. I got a line to connect the top port of the tank to the air bleed on the t-stat housing. Anyone know the proper location to plumb the lower tank port/hose?


While not exactly the same setup, I installed my coolant overflow in the engine compartment. I removed the front tank completely and installed a 20 lb cap on the radiator. I have an inline "fill fitting" in my thermostat outlet hose. It has a hose barb for the overflow tank. I have the usual ~15 lb cap installed in the rear. The one with the spring loaded two way valve so that it can draw coolant back into the system when it cools.
The overflow tank is a typical "parts store" item.
This is one of my top three favorite changes I made to the original swap installation. (4.9) The others being the Allante intake and the manual tranny.

You can kind of see the setup here.
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Report this Post10-05-2013 05:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm wanting to install a pressurized surge tank rather than an overflow. I've done a little research, the coolant has to circulate through it. I know the top fitting goes to the high point. I'm using the air bleed location. The bottom port is supposed to connect to the negative/low pressure side of the system. I think I can use a T off the heater hose coming from the water pump, but I'm not sure.
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Report this Post10-05-2013 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

jcmiracle_man

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Ok, Raydar I'm stumped. What engine is that
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Report this Post10-05-2013 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickTRoofClick Here to Email PatrickTRoofSend a Private Message to PatrickTRoofEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice work, but the paint job makes it look like a Poulan chainsaw. Sorry, couldn't resist!
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Raydar
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Report this Post10-05-2013 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jcmiracle_man:

Ok, Raydar I'm stumped. What engine is that


Ooops. It's a 4.9 with an Allante intake. The runners on the intake were painted black. Normally they're silver.
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Report this Post10-06-2013 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DeathStarrClick Here to visit DeathStarr's HomePageSend a Private Message to DeathStarrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great work, Can't wait to see videos of it!


Before I put this engine in my '89 Camaro, the plan was to find a good Fiero so i could use my Jbody trans and slicks. The only problem is that I'm just too tall to drive a Fiero. lol
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-06-2013 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PatrickTRoof:

Nice work, but the paint job makes it look like a Poulan chainsaw. Sorry, couldn't resist!


I happen to like the colors on a poulan chainsaw, thanks.
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Report this Post10-06-2013 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for joshua riedlSend a Private Message to joshua riedlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dave took a look at my 3900 tune when I started tuning. He seemed nice and willing to help. I have to speak up a little on the 4 speed though. I killed one on my first trip to the track on the first launch. I don't think it cares for the hi rpms. It was good at keeping the engine in its power.
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Report this Post10-06-2013 06:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DeathStarr:
Great work, Can't wait to see videos of it!
...


I'm also looking forward...

I'm guessing that you and Superdave are one and the same.
First... Welcome to the Forum.
Second... Was the build documented? Do you have a link? I am seriously interested, having done a similar build on an iron head 3.4.

Thanks! And my apologies to JCM for the hijack.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-06-2013).]

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Report this Post10-06-2013 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DeathStarrClick Here to visit DeathStarr's HomePageSend a Private Message to DeathStarrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


I'm also looking forward...

I'm guessing that you and Superdave are one and the same.
First... Welcome to the Forum.
Second... Was the build documented? Do you have a link? I am seriously interested, having done a similar build on an iron head 3.4.

Thanks! And my apologies to JCM for the hijack.




Yep, I'm Superdave. Thanks

The original build was over on V6Z24.com around 2007 but it went through changes over time. The last major one was around 2010 when I went through the heads again after having Ben from WOT-Tech Flowbench them. My intake ports were out-flowing Ben's best work and murdering Milzy's however the exhaust ports were pretty weak in comparison. This was around the time I was building my own flow bench so with a little more time I took care of the issues.

Here is the original thread: http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyf...,highlight,3500.html

Here is the Camaro build thread: http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyf...et-back-t111172.html


This is a seriously nasty engine with a great torque curve, it's going to be a blast for the OP to drive.

Here is the dyno from when it was in the Z24 with the HM282 5 speed: http://www.sdsgarage.com/Misc/3500/08-Dyno.gif

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Report this Post10-07-2013 01:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
(Going back into lurk mode.)
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-10-2013 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just a little update.

I'm fabricating the torque strut engine mount.

I started out with 2 of these from a Buick Century. Cut the horseshoe end off and bolted one end to the bracket, one to the head and tacked a bar in between.

This is what I ended up with.

I also buttoned up the last of the wiring connections. Just finished alternator and starter, battery cables, and fuel lines.

My still to do list:
heater hoses/surge tank
throttle cable/cruise cable, I have to fab up a bracket and possibly extend the throttle cable to reach
secure and seal air intake and drill for IAT
spark plug wires
re-connect parking brake cables, brake hoses and bleed brakes

EXHAUST- the huge nightmare. I've test fit the mufflers and there is so little room for piping that it will require u-bends tighter than a muffler shop can make locally. I can order close radius u-bends. But I don't think they will flow well enough. And once that is done I would have to remove the exhaust to get to the starter.
I'm really leaning towards notching the underside of the rear bumper and mounting the mufflers at the rear where the tips were.
Has anyone successfully done that before with decent looking results. If so some pictures would be great.

I expect to be firing it up with everything done except exhaust on Saturday.
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Report this Post10-10-2013 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NoMoreRicersClick Here to Email NoMoreRicersSend a Private Message to NoMoreRicersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jcmiracle_man:


I expect to be firing it up with everything done except exhaust on Saturday.


Be sure to get video of the first start!
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Report this Post10-12-2013 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
hell yeah! needs long tubes! I can't wait to get back at my turbo 3500 when I go home this November!

this is gonna be a hell of a ride, Superdave doesn't play around, I've seen his portwork with my own two eyes!

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Report this Post10-13-2013 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK guys I got it fired up on Saturday as planned. Still a ways to go but it's almost ready to driven. Whittling down my still to do list. Exhaust is started but no mufflers yet.
This is the third video attempt. The fist two weren't far enough away and it was sooo loud it overpowered the microphone. I was so thrilled to have everything go as planned. I half expected some problem to turn up when it was time for the first start.
The surge tank did work as planned. Plumbed upper port to air bleed, lower Tee'd into heater hose at water pump.

Here's the video
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Report this Post10-13-2013 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sounds sweet!

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-13-2013 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll have a much better video shortly it's on a friends Iphone and turned out better than mine, but it got shrunk when sent to me MMS. I'll post it as soon as I get it emailed.

My new still to do list:
-Finish Exhaust (which is actually going better than expected.)
-Re-install interior. Somehow I still need to access the Prom area of the ECM. I'm thinking of cutting out the inner area of rear compartment behind the door.
-Replace heater core (it's been bypassed since I first got it this summer when it was leaking all over the floorboard. But it's suddenly getting important as the weather turns.)
-Install Pusher fan or dual fan unit. I have both sitting around. whichever one fits better.
-A/C hoses and recharge.
-Tie down everything loose in engine compartment hoses n cables n harnesses. still need secured in a permanent home. Batten down the hatches.
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Report this Post10-13-2013 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've got a bunch of work to do on my 3500 F23 car, I'm gonna try and pick it up early next month so I can get back to work. I wish I had used the 4 speed I had in the garage instead of the F23. I'd be driving the crap out of the car right now instead of dreaming about working on it....
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Report this Post10-13-2013 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DeathStarrClick Here to visit DeathStarr's HomePageSend a Private Message to DeathStarrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds great!

What muffler setup did you decide on?
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Report this Post10-13-2013 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's the better video. My digital camera and my phone got shamed by an Iphone. and no I'm an android guy.
This was taken before the other. Earlier today.
The better video
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-13-2013 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dynomax ultraflow stainless mufflers. Straight through lazy "s" basically a giant glass pack. Two of them will be mounted at the rear bumper where the tips used to be. its made the exhaust alot easier to run. Will also allow room for headers in the future if I'm unsatisfied with the manifolds. But underhood temps is kinda a big deal in a fiero I'm thinkin manifolds w/ heat shields might be worth the trade off.
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Raydar
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From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country.
Registered: Oct 1999


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Report this Post10-14-2013 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pretty cool!
The idle sounds like it's going to be similar to my old 3.4 with the 272 cam. Well... with the exception of yours having an additional 100 HP
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jcmiracle_man
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Report this Post10-14-2013 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jcmiracle_manSend a Private Message to jcmiracle_manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Carved out a home for the mufflers today. Tin snips cut through plastic quite well.


The Carnage. It hurt a little.




The end result is better than I expected. All material removed was from the underside and not visible from behind.

I also made a new home for the 7730 ECM modified the bracket so it could sit in place and cut out a window for PROM access.
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