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Need help! 1987 Fiero 2.5L by Mentor_Cards13
Started on: 09-25-2013 08:02 PM
Replies: 59 (1060 views)
Last post by: Mentor_Cards13 on 10-25-2013 05:04 PM
Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-25-2013 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My car can't keep an idle and replaced MAP SENSOR, MAT SENSOR, O2 Sensor, TPS, IAC, Coolant temp sensor, battery and cleaned connection to ecm replaced ecm also, and it still can not keep an idle and then eventually stalls and I have a hard time starting it sometimes and there is no vacuum leak! I need serious help please Im dying to fix this thing!
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Report this Post09-25-2013 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the Forum! Have you checked fuel pressure?
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-25-2013 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you and no, but I replaced fuel pump and injector first, then IAC, then Coolant Sensor, then TPS, Then MAP, then MAT, then ECM, Then O2, and just tried ground but I can check pressure, my dad thinks there might crap in ground wire but I am open up to suggestions to prevent it from happening again in the future, I will check Pressure tomorrow.
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Report this Post09-26-2013 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bobace455Send a Private Message to bobace455Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did this begin all of a sudden? Or has the battery been disconnected or something that would set this off?

I just completed reviving a 86 2m4 and had the same issue. Turns out, the ECM doesn't set the IAC and keep it where it needs to be until the car is driven over 45 mph for 1 or 2 minutes (i forget exactly what it was, but something like that.) That cleared it up - it couldn't idle steadily until I drove it for a little while.

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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-26-2013 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No, it been going on for a while and Ive replaced all that I could and checking grounds today fuel pressure is ok and battery has been replaced two or four days ago, but I have a video posted on YouTube look up Alex Winter and you'll see how the car is acting and what I replaced but I just can't figure out why its acting like this have not driven it since it started, not gonna drive it until I fix the problem but the Battery was replaced two or four days ago and it was tightened pretty good also one of the wires were very hot as in getting burned not electrocuted. That's why Im checking the grounding today.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-26-2013 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is it good for grounds connector to be sludged and built up? How do I post image from Ipad

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Gall757
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Report this Post09-26-2013 04:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


What code does it give you when the SES light comes on?

http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?ECMCodes

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 09-26-2013).]

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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-26-2013 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you! You found and posted it! I get code 34 and 44 but I replaced it already thats why Im confused and Im putting up video #2 of the grounds right now.
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cebix
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Report this Post09-26-2013 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are you sure there are no vacuum leaks? Maybe a manifold leak/crack both exhaust or intake? I'm having the same problem and can't figure it out too though I'm pulling code 44 which means lean mixture.

EDIT: I've also had a code 34 but that's when I was unplugging the MAP when engine was running. After resetting only the 44 code prevails. You can barely hear it but the engine is constantly hunting. It floods when given throttle and the exhaust smells plenty plenty rich.



EDIT2:

As for your second video:



That is 100% okay. That gunk prevents water from corroding the connectors. It's called dielectric grease.

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 09-26-2013).]

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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-26-2013 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What's your account name?
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-26-2013 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Mentor_Cards13

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Other video is uploaded on ground
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cebix
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Report this Post09-26-2013 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Also you didn't mention the EGR. Is it working? Mine is blocked off but it has been since like 2 years and the problem is very recent.
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Report this Post09-26-2013 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Code 44 does not mean the O2 sensor is bad. It means that the O2 sensor is reading a lean condition. If your car is smelling rich, that just says that the sensor did it's job and the ECM is compensating. The source of the problem is most likely a leak in the exhaust system between the manifold and the sensor. In some cases the leak is actually sucking in fresh air rather than blowing out exhaust.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-26-2013 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I actually found a crack in the manifold and jb welded it four days ago but I guess it didn't hold sooooo Ill be replacing the manifold next exhaust system is good but jb weld did not hold up. Ill let you guys know what happens next after I replace manifold.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-26-2013 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok posted video 3 of the manifold and the weld that could not hold.
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Report this Post09-26-2013 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah replacing the manifold is gonna be a good idea anyway but could you run the engine again and while running try to cover up that crack just to be sure that this is exactly the problem? If when covering it up the engine starts idling fine then you know replacing the manifold is gonna fix it. That would help me a lot also since I'm losing my mind but didn't actually take the exahust off (maybe there's some cracks underneath that I can't see).
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-26-2013 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
But yeah got a kit n its way already and the jb weld did not hold when it did it was fine but I think the manifold is the problem Im also gonna replace my whole exhaust system too.
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Report this Post09-26-2013 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sure man. Please post back when you replace it and did the problems go away.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-29-2013 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Installing new manifold today get back to you guys about it in an hour or so had to get a hold of a floor jack so we can lift in and get underneath it.
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mike-ohio
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Report this Post09-29-2013 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mike-ohioClick Here to visit mike-ohio's HomePageClick Here to Email mike-ohioSend a Private Message to mike-ohioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
cebix mentioned checking the EGR also.

They sometimes do not close all the way causing a vacuum leak.
Very common on the 87 and 88 4 cyl.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-29-2013 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well.... my manifold was destroyed, put the video up on YouTube so you guys can see what happend, it aged and cracked right off on the left arm putting new one in now.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-29-2013 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No changes still getting code 44 I don't understand. Wtf.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-29-2013 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
New EGR coming in tomorrow putting that in then Ill let you guys know, but Manifold needed a definite replace.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-30-2013 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not EGR wtf I don't know what it is
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cebix
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Report this Post09-30-2013 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Only other thing I can think of is checking the intake manifold. There is clearly too much air in the engine (code 44).

EDIT: What about a clogged cat?

EDIT2: Did you drive the car above 45mph and let it warm up when you replaced the exhaust manifold and the EGR? Also did you clear the codes by disconnecting the battery for a minute or so?

EDIT3: It still might be electrical I guess? Maybe the positive wire is corroded? You said that some wires get hot - which ones? What we didn't get straight is that the box you were checking with grease inside was not a ground box. It was a power distribution box for lights, computer, gearbox etc called C500 I believe in the service manual.

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 09-30-2013).]

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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post09-30-2013 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Idk but I am gonna replace vacuum lines, I think I can hear a leak from there Ill let you know next because I can cruise at 45 fine and no jerking I just can't stop for a long time otherwise it'll stall.
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Gall757
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Report this Post09-30-2013 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bad vacuum lines won't stall a car. You do need to run it a bit for the computer to re-think the sensor information. Is the wiring to the 02 sensor good?

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 09-30-2013).]

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Report this Post10-01-2013 12:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you checked the ignition coils, and the crankshaft position sensor? You could have an iffy coil, or maybe a cracked crank sensor. It's worth checking out. BTW, the crank sensor is on the underside of the ignition brick. You have to pull the ignition brick to get at it.

Best of luck!
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post10-01-2013 05:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
O k Illcheck that and the O2 wiring is good Ill check the coil because I do hear a leak from under the car somewhere but not the exhaust system
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Report this Post10-03-2013 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any news? Still fighting with mine and no clue.
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Report this Post10-03-2013 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still fighting had engine tech come over yesterday with OBD1 and all sensors work, no vacuum leaks and it reads lean, he thinks its a fuel problem like you said at first not giving enough then gives too much when it stalls
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Report this Post10-03-2013 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for firejo24Send a Private Message to firejo24Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Best thing you can do is get a repair manual and follow the flow charts for both codes. You’ve spent a lot of money and a lot of time chasing a problem when you don’t really know what it is. Keep in mind that even though you replaced the O2 sensor if the crack in the manifold was bad enough it could have damaged the new sensor. I’d still go through the flow charts first and see where they take you.
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Report this Post10-04-2013 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah that would be a good idea but there is very little information about code 44 on the 6E2-A-51 page of the service manual. Most of it (and more) was done by both me and this thread's author with no real results.

In my opinions there are only a few things that stand out in the "poor idle" section that weren't mentionted:

"Battery cables and ground straps should be clean and secure. Erratic voltage will cause IAC to change its position resulting in poor idle quality."
"Check PCV valve for proper operation by placing finger over inlet hole in valve end several times. Valve should snap back. If not, replace valve."

You checked grounds but how about the positive cables? There is also some AC stuff. Do you have AC in your car? I do and my shop was fiddling with it just before the problems started. However I disconnected the compressor and nothing changed so I guess it would be out of the equation.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post10-04-2013 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ill be checking ALL grounds tomorrow
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Report this Post10-06-2013 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can't say it enough - don't just check the grounds, check the positive cables too especially from the battery to the little junction on the side. Corrosion can easily get there.
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Mentor_Cards13
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Report this Post10-06-2013 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, Im going to have our engine tech come over later again, I don't know how much longer this is gonna take, keep you guys updated on progress
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Report this Post10-08-2013 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any leads? I know our problem sources may be totally different but I'm suspecting it's the same thing.

My PCV works, it rattles nicely so the ball inside isn't stuck and the hose is clean. All connections seem good, the alternator works. I'm thinking could it be a clogged cat? Have you checked yours? One thing more, does your car do this only when cold/hot or both?
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Report this Post10-08-2013 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's not clogged my engine tech says, he thinks its a defective injector or pump spent all money gotta wait till next payday Ill let you know ASAP
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Report this Post10-08-2013 09:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mentor_Cards13Click Here to Email Mentor_Cards13Send a Private Message to Mentor_Cards13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well...... it was a defective pump. New pump in tomorrow and it will be up and running, was a fuel issue.
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Report this Post10-09-2013 04:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cebixSend a Private Message to cebixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks man. That really could be it. I've never checked mine and I don't know how old it is (could be original still). Please post back after you replace it if it did the trick. Thanks again.

I've bought a fuel pressure gauge with hoses etc. Gonna check the fuel pressure.

[This message has been edited by cebix (edited 10-09-2013).]

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