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88 Steering Linkage Differences by Erik
Started on: 09-15-2013 04:18 AM
Replies: 16 (551 views)
Last post by: Erik on 09-18-2013 03:16 AM
Erik
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Report this Post09-15-2013 04:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've noticed 2 different linkages between the steering column and the rack for the 88, one with a rag jont on the GT/Formula and one with a sleeve with a rubber isolator between the shaft and sleeve on the coupes. Why is that so? My rag joint is bad on my 88 GT and I plan on replacing it with a 88 coupe linkage that had 50k on it. I know I could replace the rag joint with a solid disc but I am going to try the coupe linkage before going that route.
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Raydar
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Report this Post09-15-2013 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I never knew there was a difference.
Not that I've looked for one....
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Gall757
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Report this Post09-15-2013 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pictures!

GM did not make extra parts if they did not have to, so I suspect one of your steering systems has been modified.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 09-15-2013).]

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mrfiero
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Report this Post09-15-2013 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Pictures!

GM did not make extra parts if they did not have to, so I suspect one of your steering systems has been modified.



Nope. He is right......the '88 V6 models have a different intermediate shaft than the 4-cyl coupe (rag joint vs. rubber). It may have to do with the wheel/tire size difference, but I really have no idea.
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fierogt28
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Report this Post09-15-2013 06:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogt28Click Here to Email fierogt28Send a Private Message to fierogt28Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ya, there was two different type of steering linkage rods.

The coupe had the solid shaft into a rubber bushing, and
the Formula's a GTs had the donut type rubber assembly like the
one you are refering to.

I don't know why the Formula's and GT had that difference, probably for
a better comfort feel at the steering wheel. Many GM cars from the era
have this style assembly.

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fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. Beechwood interior, All original.

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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post09-15-2013 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, this is something I've never seen or heard of either. I'd love to see some pics.
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Erik
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Report this Post09-16-2013 01:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



On the rag joint linkage, it is loose rivets that are causing the problem, not the rag joint itself.

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 09-16-2013).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post09-16-2013 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The coupe steering rack was 3.5 turns lock to lock, and the GT/Formula was 3 turns. Apparently the assemblies were provided by 2 different vendors.
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post09-16-2013 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

The coupe steering rack was 3.5 turns lock to lock, and the GT/Formula was 3 turns.


All '88 racks are the same. I think some publications may have listed the power steering ratio which was supposed to be 16:1 as opposed to 19:1 for the manual racks... that would correspond to ~3 turns lock to lock if the manual rack is 3.5.
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Gall757
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Report this Post09-16-2013 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK, but there were 2 different racks manufactured....just not in 88. We may be looking at an earlier year steering linkage that was put into an 88 coupe.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060206-2-068183.html
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Raydar
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Report this Post09-16-2013 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Damn... Learned something today.
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theogre
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Report this Post09-16-2013 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:
On the rag joint linkage, it is loose rivets that are causing the problem, not the rag joint itself.

Sorry but no... "Loose" rivet is often cause by "worn out" rubber. Rubber is ok to you but does compress/shrink over the long run. Is a known issue for doughnut/donuts.

They make replacements for some cars/trucks because rubber is the U-joint too. Don't know if anyone makes a replacement donut for Fiero.
Example see dorman keyword: steering coupler

In this case the rubber/donut is only a shock absorber to save the U joints.

the rubber bushing uses a big roll pin if the rubber fails. ~220,000 miles on 87 fiero and still good on rubber...
Note that 84-87 use 2 different intermediate shafts... w/ vs w/o WS6 option etc.

If both end fits the rack then it doesn't matter to steering but tight turn ratio may mean extra stress to this part... The U joints gets more stress or rubber bushing wears faster than the donut. Yes, could change driver's "road feel" too.

If you use 4 cyl part then save old unit, maybe fix it, as a spare. iffy donut is better then dead unit... Find a used donut part could be hard.

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FlyFieroGT
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Report this Post09-16-2013 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FlyFieroGTSend a Private Message to FlyFieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The picture of two intermediate steering shafts dipict the manual steering and pwr steering design. These both have the crash collaspe injected shaft joint and redundant torsion steel backup in the rubber isolators.

The manual has a torsional rubber isolator .

The power steering has a flexiable coupling (slang -rag joint) to provide additional isolation.

The use of the two is determined by the Chassis vehicle dynamics engineer with respect to ride and handling.

The Rag coupling design is more expensive to produce.

The Fiero was killed by Gm mid production and with both shafts produced either was used on the
manual rack until the stock was used up.

If I had the shaft removed I would replace the rubber flex coupling ( 25 to 30 year old rubber and how many miles.)

[This message has been edited by FlyFieroGT (edited 09-16-2013).]

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Erik
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Report this Post09-16-2013 03:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:


All '88 racks are the same. I think some publications may have listed the power steering ratio which was supposed to be 16:1 as opposed to 19:1 for the manual racks... that would correspond to ~3 turns lock to lock if the manual rack is 3.5.


Yep they are all the same. I have a couple of GT's and a couple of coupes and they all have the same amounts of turns lock to lock a little over 3 1/4 turns.
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Erik
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Report this Post09-17-2013 02:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I replaced the GT steering linkage with the coupe steering linkage. What a nice change my steering is tighter more responsive no shakes and shimmers in the steering wheel. Also I put Rodneys bronze replacement bushing in as well. I am currently running the stock 88 wheels and tires sizes. I have my 17s in storage I plan on putting them back on soon and I am sure it will feel like a razor then with the stiffer sidewalls. I think the coupes steering linkage is better then the GT's
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Report this Post09-17-2013 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:


Yep they are all the same. I have a couple of GT's and a couple of coupes and they all have the same amounts of turns lock to lock a little over 3 1/4 turns.


I have done several power steering conversions in 88's and have at least 5 racks in the shed. They are all exactly the same ( with the exception of plastic vs metal bushing) but come from all types of 88's. They all have the same rack no matter the trim level. 3.5 turns lock to lock. IF your car has less than 3.5 turns lock then you have some binding going on.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 09-17-2013).]

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Erik
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Report this Post09-18-2013 03:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


I have done several power steering conversions in 88's and have at least 5 racks in the shed. They are all exactly the same ( with the exception of plastic vs metal bushing) but come from all types of 88's. They all have the same rack no matter the trim level. 3.5 turns lock to lock. IF your car has less than 3.5 turns lock then you have some binding going on.



No binding. They are between 3 1/4 and 3 1/2.
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