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What is a 3800 sc? by chorcob
Started on: 07-04-2013 12:45 PM
Replies: 26 (734 views)
Last post by: BV MotorSports on 07-09-2013 02:47 AM
chorcob
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Report this Post07-04-2013 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chorcobSend a Private Message to chorcobEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm wondering what a 3800 sc engine is, is it a 3.8? Or what? why is it called a 3800?
Yeah i know it's a stupid question but i'm sorta new.

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Report this Post07-04-2013 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Google is your friend. BTW, its also called an L67.
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Report this Post07-04-2013 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gtoformulaClick Here to Email gtoformulaSend a Private Message to gtoformulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
3800SC is a 3.8 liter V6 supercharged engine that went in various Buick and Pontiac cars from about 1988 to 2007 model years. The same basic engine was produced in three versions ... the series II seems to be the more popular of the variants. It is a very simple V6 engine without multiple valves. I once saw an image of a complete 3800 teardown next to a Northstar V8 teardown. Many, many more parts in the Northstar. This engine is a popular choice as an upgrade as it fits easily into the engine cradle, its relatively light (especially compared to a V8) and has about twice the HP of the 2.8L V6.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine
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Report this Post07-04-2013 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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Report this Post07-04-2013 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The "thirty-eight hundred" as it is called is called that because it displaces just under 3800cc's (3.8 liters). There are two primary engine code designations for the engine depending on series. The L67 - mentioned above - is the "SC" or supercharged variant of the 3800 that was called that for series 1& 2. The other - which has an engine code that varies depending on series - is a naturally aspirated (N/A) version putting out the same displacement of 3.8 liters, but making less horsepower.

As mentioned above, it comes in "three versions" that are put into Fieros. The first is the series 1. The series 1 is not ultimately as popular as series 2 or 3 because for one, it can be difficult to find one in good shape. Two, there are some variances in wiring and dealing with older electronics. And finally, the aftermarket available to the engine is not as robust as the series 2 or 3 in regards to the parts-to-cost-to-poweroutput ratios. The series 1 3800 however does have a loyal set of followers that have worked out most everything regarding the swap. The supercharged variant is L67 while the N/A variant is L27 (pre series 1 3800s are referred to as LN3s)

The series 2 - the most frequently swapped 3800 engine into a Fiero - has a very strong aftermarket and has been well sorted out to put into Fieros. It's aftermarket primarily stems from the supercharged Buick/Pontiac crowd which has long been dealing with these engines in L67 equipped Regals, GTPs, and SSEis to name a few. The N/A variant of this series is the L36. The series 2 is incredibly popular not only with Fieros, but in the GM community at large. It has been a well-proven power plant that can put out a tremendous amount of horsepower for very little money.

The series 3 is the latest variant. There are some issues that make it difficult to swap entirely over as is. One for instance is the electronic actuated throttle body, which if utilized requires the swapper to swap over all of the necessary electronics and even the gas pedal from the donor. Thus, many "series 3" swaps are actually a hodge-podge of series 2 & 3 parts to facilitate a setup that works. The L32 is the supercharged version, and the L26 is the N/A version. The series 3 is primarily a sought candidate for a swap because it is the "newest" of the 3800 family, thus they (usually) are in the best of shape.

The 3800 is no longer being produced for GM vehicles. It has been replaced in application by the 3500 V6.

While no turbo version was offered OEM, the aftermarket community for these engines is so strong that many turbocharger applications exist, both in their original-installed vehicles and in swapped-Fieros. Many of the fastest Fieros actually are using turbocharged 3800 engines, and the community is rather knowledgeable on the intricacies of not only creating a Fiero with a turbo 3800 engine, but also actually being able to properly operate said vehicle.

3800s - like other engine swaps - pretty much started to be considered as a swap candidate as soon as the engine was available. When the 3800 was introduced, the Fiero community was still head long into V8 swaps. V8 swaps had been done since the 1984 model year. When the supercharged variant 3800 engines began to start showing up in larger numbers, the push to swap them into Fieros started occurring, and by the mid to later portion of the 1990s most of the major issues had been worked out and a good handful of Fieros were beginning to sport 3800 swaps. Now with the relative ease of obtaining everything to do the swap, hundreds upon hundreds of them are a reality.
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fierofool
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Report this Post07-04-2013 09:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It should also be noted that the 3800, sometimes called a 3.8 should not be confused with the rear wheel drive 3.8 engines. The common 3800 or 3.8 engine used in the Fiero swaps is the front wheel drive version.
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James Bond 007
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Report this Post07-04-2013 09:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sc=supercharger
GT=Grand Touring
GTO=Grand Touring Over Modified
GTU=Grand Touring Under Modified
GTX=Grand Touring Experimental
No2=Nitrous Oxide
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chorcob
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Report this Post07-04-2013 10:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chorcobSend a Private Message to chorcobEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks everyone, i saw a fiero in a race with one and it won, it was pretty cool.

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Report this Post07-05-2013 09:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DimeMachineSend a Private Message to DimeMachineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A 3800 SC is gods gift to Fiero owners. It was stuck in a BUNCH of GM full size cars and can be harvested at 100k miles for low $$ and when placed in the 2700 lb fiero, it goes like a gazelle begin chased by a lion.
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Report this Post07-05-2013 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"While no turbo version was offered OEM " ? Buick Grand National ? or was that something "different" ?
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Report this Post07-05-2013 03:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by chorcob:

Thanks everyone, i saw a fiero in a race with one and it won, it was pretty cool.



Where at?

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Report this Post07-05-2013 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:

"While no turbo version was offered OEM " ? Buick Grand National ? or was that something "different" ?


that was pre-3800, was just a 3.8....
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Report this Post07-05-2013 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Corpsmen EdClick Here to visit Corpsmen Ed's HomePageClick Here to Email Corpsmen EdSend a Private Message to Corpsmen EdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How reliable are these at 100K and up? That seems to be the only variant available. My budget isn't exactly Ft.Knox either, so I can't afford one of the professionally rebuilt crate motors. I also don't have the time, tools, or skill to rebuild it myself. I am just a little worried about dropping $600-$1200 on something that will need a complete overhaul before it's even installed.

Also, I figure V6 gas mileage is better than with a V8, so it has that in it's favor. But I have heard that the V8 conversions are easier and cheaper, not to mention easier to maintain. Any thoughts?

Lastly, what about the engines sound? Which do you think is better? It's hard to beat a V8 growl. Plus, that whine from the super-charger could get annoying.

[This message has been edited by Corpsmen Ed (edited 07-05-2013).]

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Report this Post07-05-2013 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Corpsmen Ed:

How reliable are these at 100K and up? That seems to be the only variant available. My budget isn't exactly Ft.Knox either, so I can't afford one of the professionally rebuilt crate motors. I also don't have the time, tools, or skill to rebuild it myself. I am just a little worried about dropping $600-$1200 on something that will need a complete overhaul before it's even installed.

Also, I figure V6 gas mileage is better than with a V8, so it has that in it's favor. But I have heard that the V8 conversions are easier and cheaper, not to mention easier to maintain. Any thoughts?

Lastly, what about the engines sound? Which do you think is better? It's hard to beat a V8 growl. Plus, that whine from the super-charger could get annoying.


I suggest starting a new thread something like "3800 or V8"

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Raydar
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Report this Post07-05-2013 05:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Reliability will depend mostly upon how hard it was run and how well it was maintained.
It's possible to buy one with 100K that will continue to be reliable.

My own personal opinion is that a 3800SC in a Pontiac or Monte Carlo SS will have been run harder than one in a Buick Regal, Park Avenue Ultra, or Riviera.

I love the sound of a supercharger whine, but I also have a V8.

Personally... I believe the 3800 is probably an easier swap. Pieces are readily available to make it pretty much a bolt-in.

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Report this Post07-05-2013 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for diabloroadsterSend a Private Message to diabloroadsterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can watch this video of my Lambo Diablo replica/kit (1985/88 Fiero) with a ls4 V8 (with a couple mods) to see what it sounds like compared to a 3800sc....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vIrhfvTIuQ

[This message has been edited by diabloroadster (edited 07-05-2013).]

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Report this Post07-05-2013 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a Series III 3800 NA in my DD '08 Grand Prix with about 100K miles on it and it still runs like a top and probably will for another 100K and then some. If it wasn't for the fact the car is still in perfect condition I'd love to drop that motor into my Fiero.

The Grand National 3.8 Turbo was one of the fastest production cars of its day, but unfortunately front engine rear drive.

[This message has been edited by NetCam (edited 07-05-2013).]

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Report this Post07-05-2013 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Raydar has a good point. Depends upon how the donor car was driven. My wife's Grand Prix had 183,000 on it when we sold it earlier this year. I wouldn't have hesitated to put it's engine into one of my Fieros.

The Buicks are generally bought by older more sedate drivers. Some of them don't even know they have a supercharger, or what it is. They're usually driven more casually than say a Grand Prix GT or GTP. Monte Carlos often have been driven by Earnhardt wannabee's.

It was also said to get one that's been hit in the rear or side so you know it was going down the road under its own power. Good advice. Look at the general condition of the donor car when buying a used engine. It can tell you a lot about how the engine was maintained.

The 3800 can be outfitted to sound much like a V8, if that's the sound you want while still getting the economy of a V6. A local Fiero mechanic has a 3800 NA in his 86SE and most who hear it think it's got a V8 in it.
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Report this Post07-05-2013 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for solotwoSend a Private Message to solotwoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 3.6VVT Caddy engine replaced the 3800 in the Buick vehicles.
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Report this Post07-08-2013 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Corpsmen EdClick Here to visit Corpsmen Ed's HomePageClick Here to Email Corpsmen EdSend a Private Message to Corpsmen EdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for all the feedback. Great advice all around. And the replica in the video sounds awesome. I really like the dash most of all. LOL

I think I will start a new thread like was suggested, just because it is fun talking about all this.
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Report this Post07-08-2013 02:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mikejhjrClick Here to Email mikejhjrSend a Private Message to mikejhjrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh boy...
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Report this Post07-08-2013 03:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chorcobSend a Private Message to chorcobEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:


Where at?



I saw this race on youtube, it was on the forum in a thread too. Here is the link to the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERK_krZfxiU

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chorcob
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Report this Post07-08-2013 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chorcobSend a Private Message to chorcobEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

chorcob

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Member since Jun 2013
This is pretty sweet too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDrMxJwVGmA

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Justinbart
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Report this Post07-08-2013 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by chorcob:


I saw this race on youtube, it was on the forum in a thread too. Here is the link to the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERK_krZfxiU



That's me.

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chorcob
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Report this Post07-08-2013 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chorcobSend a Private Message to chorcobEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
nice job!

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Patrick
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Report this Post07-08-2013 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Justinbart:

That's me.


That's a fun video to watch.

What tires did you have on the car at the time? You seemed to be getting decent traction (unlike the Camaro).
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Report this Post07-09-2013 02:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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