I replaced the original 115,000 mile rear wheel bearings on my Fiero and wish i never had. 1 was bad, but the other was fine and had no play and was clicking. I replaced both anyway... One of them snapped on the way to Richland washington, and the other had catastrophic failure later and was replaced before it was destroyed. I bought the Rock auto ~$15 hubs and replaced the bad one with the rock auto hub. I estimate 4-5k miles later its bad as well. Why wont the bearings hold up?! The first two I bought were from NAPA(one snapped off, and one was destroyed), the one that snapped was replaced with an Oreilley part. Its fine, the other NAPA hub was replaced with the Rock auto hub and its failing. Anyone have this many problems with this?
Most of the bearings that are economical are crap because they are made in China. They just don't hold up.
You want to find an American made bearing. Best quality is new old stock GM. I just purchased a new old stock GM bearing. Its brand new out of the GM box. It will most likely net some decent mileage. You should be able to get new old stock at a dealer or at gmpartsdirect.com. You will pay through the nose but it should last.
Originally posted by mitchjl22: I bought the Rock auto ~$15 hubs and replaced the bad one with the rock auto hub. I estimate 4-5k miles later its bad as well. Why wont the bearings hold up?!
I don't know what product line the NAPA or Oreilly hubs were, but the cheap hubs have a very bad reputation. I have Timkens on my Fiero and on my Explorer (the Explorer OEM hubs are Timken and lasted 205,000 miles, still worked fine).
As you've found, you need to be EXTREMELY selective regarding the source for your hub cartridges.
Ditto on verifying proper axle nut torque.
Edit: 115K seems like low mileage for an OE bearing to go... do you motocross your car?
Just curious - Rockauto only shows National, Moog, Raybestos, Timken, and SKF bearings - all which generally have a decent reputation. Some are private-label closeouts. Would you stay away from any? Which ones are China bearings?
Normally I would trust a National, Moog, and (maybe) Raybestos. I know Timkens and SKF bearings are good.
I think we did start a small record of the origin of some replacement parts, and I think the RockAuto wheel bearings were made in the USA. I can't remember the link, though. Maybe it wasn't a bad purchase, after all, since I drive like a LOLFP (little old, etc).
Torque axle nut matters. Likely More so on cheap hubs. nut Torque has direct pressure on bearings inside. See my Cave, Axle
In old posts, I thought rear hub was using Ball Bearing but wrong... I took a dead one apart to see and found roller bearing, just bigger then front.
Before you ask, I didn't see anything major wrong but too cold to do a good inspection.
A guess is cheap unit has little bearings clearance or worse, preload them. OEM has some clearance, NO preload, same as front. (And why you get noise when turning if brake shield is a little bent.) Preload the front and you quickly fried the bearings.
Or they have lube/contamination problems... Hardness of metal... etc...
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Originally posted by theogre: In old posts, I thought rear hub was using Ball Bearing but wrong... I took a dead one apart to see and found roller bearing, just bigger then front.
Originally posted by Will: Some have rollers, some have balls
Thanks. I took apart a replacement unit. 513011K, Made in USA, distributed by Switch Inc, sold tru AdvanceAuto 10+ years ago. (I have the box w/ old good OE hub.) I don't have any bad OE and I'm not taking a good unit apart.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
I do autocross my car and that's what i believe partially killed my bearings.
This winter, I slid into a curb and severely damaged my passenger side rear wheel/lower control arm. The arm was bent badly and needed replaced, but the wheel bearing, to my extreme surprise, held up just fine. (The one from oreilley) I hit the curb so hard that the front end went completely over the curbing and was hanging over the top of a 6-7ft ditch. The rear wheel hit hard enough for the camber bolts I installed to knock out the adjustment tabs on the strut (Ruined my alignment obviously) I haven't had any problems with that wheel bearing since it was installed.
Just curious about a couple of things. If you've rolled the car around after installing the hubs and before installing the axle shafts? This will quickly destroy the hub. What are the symptoms of bad hub bearings. One of my cars was used for drifting before I got it and though suspension parts have been replaced, sans hubs, it has a funky little twitch.
In old posts, I thought rear hub was using Ball Bearing but wrong... I took a dead one apart to see and found roller bearing ...
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Some have rollers, some have balls
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
I took apart a replacement unit. 513011K ... I don't have any bad OE and I'm not taking a good unit apart.
The one OEM rear hub I've disassembled had ball bearings, not rollers.
Edit: I just went out to the shop and shot this picture of a partially-disassembled OEM rear hub (inner race removed from stub shaft), clearly showing the ball bearings:
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-05-2013).]
Yeah, GM was building their FWD cars as cheap as possible to be semi-disposable econoboxes. The ball bearings, especially with the integral races, were good for ~0.5 mpg over rollers, and cheaper, even though they are considerably more fragile.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-04-2013).]
If you've rolled the car around after installing the hubs and before installing the axle shafts? This will quickly destroy the hub. What are the symptoms of bad hub bearings.
Never put the vehicle's weight on the bearing before tightening the axle nut. The inner sleeve that sets the preload on the bearings is only a light press onto the spindle. The axle stub prevents it from backing off when loaded.
Bad hub bearings will have perceptible angular play (12-6 and 3-9 shake tests) and may make a growling or grinding noise.
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: The one OEM rear hub I've disassembled had ball bearings, not rollers.
Thanks.
This is my bad aftermarket hub. Something causing binding on inner bearing. I don't see what... Outer race and rollers look ok w/ quick inspection. Roller cage looks iffy. I bought 2 when I though Hub(s) were bad but really dust shield was bent. I still have 1 in my car w/ no problems. I used crank balancer puller w/ bolts/nuts to press out w/o adding more damage. Careful prying inner seal to save it is ok.
Roller above, Looks that "preload" is set by metal ring that live between inner races. Axle holds all parts together.
Very easy to pull apart w/o axle in place, especially BB sets. Does take more effort to damage roller setup but won't last w/o axle load in Towing etc...
Good OE Does have a little play. Shaking the wheel doesn't help to see hub is bad. My OE one has 210,000+ miles on it and hub always has a little play. Any noise can hear/feel means trouble.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-09-2017).]
Update: This is the problem for dead hub I posted above. After cleaning today, damage done for inner race and bearings for inside bearing. (Left one as shown above) (I only crop and resize pictures below.) Race damage
Bearing got warm (most Bearing turn uneven tan) and cage has some metal flakes.
Made in?? Edit> Bearings Made by www.koyousa.com but Hub is made in USA. (Switches Inc. LaGrange, IN)
I'm careful on torquing them... Was on low side of torque range per FSM. (See cave, axle) Failed in <2 years. I bought two... One is still on my car. That lasted ~90,000 miles so far.
Bearing was made bad, set any preload or the wrong preload, maybe over-torque axle nut, can to this kind of damage.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-09-2017).]
I jumped in on the close-out of RockAuto rear bearings. Maybe I made a mistake...
Me too. I installed mine this summer and at the current rate of use 5,000 miles is about...5 years away. I kept the original bearings, so they can go back in if needed. My torque wrench doesn't read up to the required torque, so I gave it my best guess.
The Rock Auto hubs were Made in USA and supposedly were "white boxed" Moogs. If looks are indicative, I could believe they're Moogs as they appeared to be quality pieces.
Originally posted by carnut122: The Rock Auto hubs were Made in USA and supposedly were "white boxed" Moogs. If looks are indicative, I could believe they're Moogs as they appeared to be quality pieces.
May not matter... The Sad and Real fact is aftermarket hubs "Made in US" can still use Bearings made anywhere. "Made in US" just means x% of work is in US to meet US Customs rules.
So US made but you still take chances on the bearing inside. Everyone now use the lowest bidder to make parts.
If you have descent/good OE hubs then keep them. I did. The new one was bad and stores were close... Had to work next day. 90,000+ miles later, the OE hub is still in use. ~200,000 total.
Torque spec... Even SM is confusing. Example, 87 SM re axle/hub nut... Page 4D-2, Drive axle, Step 7 in Install list. "install washer and new hub nut and tighten to 250-285 Nm (183-208 lb.ft.)." Page 3D-5, Rear Suspension... (short version) New hub nut on axle shaft. Apply partial torque to new hub nut(approx. 100 N-rn) (74 Ib.ft.). Install or Connect: Rotor. Caliper assembly. Wheel and tire. Lower vehicle. Tighten: Apply FINAL. torque at hub nut to 270 Nm (200 lb.ft.).
I went with page 4D-2 for final torque. I have replaces axles etc with these specs. Only 1 AM hub went bad, no other work was done to it before it died. (Yes, I copy/past most of this from my post in another thread...)
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-30-2013).]
Just wondering - due to roller - taper bearing in the Hub - could it be rebuilt with new bearings / races? - Just like rebuilding the front hubs/bearings on pre 88's?
Originally posted by katatak: Ogre, Just wondering - due to roller - taper bearing in the Hub - could it be rebuilt with new bearings / races? - Just like rebuilding the front hubs/bearings on pre 88's?
Bearing is available from bearing maker, see link above, but may not sell to you. (Your bearing might be different.) If you find a vender sells small quantities of right size bearing... maybe. (I haven't seen 88 front rebuild option.) 1 problem is preload is set by spacers... If a spacer is a crush type, can be very hard to replace that. If a new bearing race is a tiny bit thicker/thinner then spacers won't set preload right. (A bearing set w/o preload is still a setting to deal with.) Bad Preload setup on a bearing is often quick dead to the hub. (84-87 Fiero front and others have no preload. Any preload can do same type of damage as hub above.)
Iffy preload maybe why I had dead hub. Other possible causes... One race w/ crap heat treat will means that bearing will fail. Iffy lube job at factory will make them fail too.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-31-2013).]
If you service them, Remove most rust before you start then Clean everything. And make sure bearing go back in same way.
Make sure you have good backup hub or 2 just in case...
Avoid hitting them. Use a harmonic balance puller w/ bolts/nuts. Get that from AZ loaner tools. (You add/buy only nuts.)
Note: Aftermarket hubs... Take more force to take apart then OE hubs. Stop caring when the old one had a dead bearing but.... Flange end bearing is very hard to remove w/o damaging the seal. Flange seal could be hard to reinstall w/ bearing in place. To service these, would need a press to reinstall the bearing.
(Edited 3 posts to fix images.)
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-09-2017).]
Quick question since I am getting ready to replace both of my rear axle bearing assemblies. Since you have to torque them up to preload them before you put the cars weight on them, how do you get 200ft/lb of torque on a nut with out the tire being on the car and on the ground to prevent the axle from turning?
Quick question since I am getting ready to replace both of my rear axle bearing assemblies. Since you have to torque them up to preload them before you put the cars weight on them, how do you get 200ft/lb of torque on a nut with out the tire being on the car and on the ground to prevent the axle from turning?
Technically, the FSM says to tighten the axle nut to partial torque of 74 ft / lbs with the wheel off the ground. Lower car to the ground, final torque is 200 ft / lbs.
Normally, your supposed to use a new axle nut. But many have used the old nut without it backing off.
... how do you get 200ft/lb of torque on a nut with out the tire being on the car and on the ground to prevent the axle from turning?
You can use a pry bar carefully engaging the hub center and studs, with its other end on the ground. You can slip short lengths of hose over the studs to protect the threads if you want, but you shouldn't really need to. I still think it's better to tighten the axle nut to ~75 ft-lb with the hub in the air, and then tighten fully to ~200 ft-lb with the tire on the ground. You won't damage anything by putting some weight on a partially tightened hub, as long as you don't try driving around that way.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-21-2014).]
As Marvin described, I put a long crowbar through the wheel studs with the other end against the floor in the direction of rotation to keep the hub from spinning, then torque away.
[This message has been edited by tesmith66 (edited 03-21-2014).]
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: You can use a pry bar carefully engaging the hub center and studs, with its other end on the ground. I still think it's better to tighten the axle nut to ~75 ft-lb with the hub in the air, and then tighten fully to ~200 ft-lb with the tire on the ground. You won't damage anything by putting some weight on a partially tightened hub, as long as you don't try driving around that way.
VERY CAREFULLY. You can do damage to the lug threads or get hurt if whatever slips off etc.
Depending on wheel... most just take off center of wheel and mount wheel as normal then lower car and final torque axle nut then snap in the wheel center. If wheel center is hard to remove then use spare tire.
OE hubs does need some pressure to keep good. W/o that OE hubs are easy to loose parts or worse. Aftermarket units are much harder to fail even rolling in the shop. Moving any distance then both need some axle pressure. Doesn't need full torque to push or tow a little bit. Towing on highway then full torque. Loosing a wheel often causes very big problems. I keep "tools" made of old CV joints and used nuts for this job. Old CV won't make problem or need two wrenches like using bolts.
