Sorry for the paragraph in advance, just want to explain fully
The clutch was having problems shifting into 1st and reverse a couple weeks ago, however only when running and all other gears worked fine. So I tried to bleed it and ended up breaking off the bleeder screw because it was so rusted on. So I then ordered a new clutch slave cylinder and the flex line repair kit and installed them into my Fiero. There were a lot of bubbles in the system, so I tried to bleed it and there was a never-ending stream of bubbles. After about an hour and a half, the fluid was bubble free, but now it wouldn't shift into gear. So I had my father come and see if he could fix the rest of it. We tried to bleed it, and no luck, somehow still bubbles. So I went out and bought a new clutch master cylinder and put that in. We bled it, still bubbles, we bled it some more (about an hour) and no more bubbles, but still won't shift into gear. My father looked at the pedal, and it isn't bent. There was barely any travel on the slave cylinder (don't know if it's supposed to be that way on Fieros, but he insisted it wasn't) he decided that the clutch disc was worn too much, so in one last desperate attempt, we went out and bought some threaded rod and he cut it about 2 inches longer than the rod in the slave cylinder and switched them out. No dice, still won't disengage. I'm at a loss. How could the clutch deteriorate that quickly? I am hoping that your insight into this matter might help with something we have overlooked? I have read the forums, but can't find anything that matches this description. Thank you in advance for your time and insight, I appreciate it!
[This message has been edited by asgosnell (edited 03-14-2013).]
The flex line repair kit is on Rodney Dickmans website and it is used to fix the part of the hydraulic line that goes from the slave cylinder to the metal pipe. I will check all of the fittings again, but I'm fairly certain they are all tight.
They may be tight, but if there is dirt, or a crack, or a burr on the flare, it isn't going to work. Check on both ends of Rodney's new part for a mis- match in the connectors.
The 'classic' questions: Did you use Rodney's slave? (if not, the bite the bullet and buy it now!) Is the clutch pedal, when released, at least 1" higher than the brake pedal? (If not you have a mechanical problem!) Do you have any free play in the clutch pedal (ie, the pedal moves before the master starts to compress)? you might have bad clutch pedal bushings or a worn clutch pivot shaft or need an adjustible banjo(again from Rodney!). Is the loop in the banjo pointing up rather than down?
Pull back the accordian rubber over the slave pushrod and check for fluid. If you have ANY you have a bad slave (even if brand new!)
Put back the stock slave pushrod....extending it does not fix the problem.
Bleed the SLAVE! Once you have no bubbles coming from the bleeder, the slave is still probably full of air. You must pull back on the rod with the bleeder open to expell the air in the slave, then while still compressed tighten the bleeder and release the slave. See V8 Archie's Archieisms for a clearer description.
Try removing the bleed screw and putting Teflon tape on the threads. Then bleed the system again. When bleeding, sometimes air enters past the threads so you end up bleeding endlessly.
No, I didn't use Rodney's slave, I was looking for a quick fix to get me to and from work for a couple weeks and couldn't wait for it to come in the mail. The clutch pedal sits barely higher than the brake pedal. There isn't any free play with the clutch. I have read around, and even though it was ordered and said to be the right slave cylinder, it still could be wrong and that might be whats not letting it into gear. Do you all think it's worth bringing back the one I bought and ordering the new slave cylinder from Rodney? Or should I just call it quits and sell it?
[This message has been edited by asgosnell (edited 03-14-2013).]
Doug...CAN'T just be the clutch disc: he has nearly no movement of the slave pushrod: therefore the problem is upstream of the clutch rod, either mechanical at the pedal assembly or in the hydraulic system.
I suggest you FIRST bleed the slave a couple times. Go to V8 Archie.com....on the bottom left of the home page is a link to 'archie-isms'. Bleed the slave in accordance with archie-ism number 1. That will most likely fix the problem. If not, the attack the low cluth pedal. My write-up on MY low clutch pedal is here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...120111-2-108553.html
Oh, and I hope you realize you must usually put the clutch all the way to the floor to get it to release on most Fiero's.
Also pull back the boot over the slave rod and check for moisture. If you have it, you might as well just order Rodney's slave and wait for it to come in, cause even if you get the existing slave to work now, it will soon fail again.
And don't give up hope! You CAN beat the Fiero clutch demon!
Larry
[This message has been edited by imacflier (edited 03-14-2013).]
Sorry I forgot to mention: if you DO have the wrong slave, it is for the iszuzu and will result in MORE travel of the slave rod. The problem with slave cylinders bought from parts stores is simply that they are no damned good! Rodney's are aluminum and have a dual seal not available anywhere else. So do what you think is best, but I buy NOTHING except from Rodney if he has it available!
Larry
[This message has been edited by imacflier (edited 03-14-2013).]
The first and most important thing to do is to measure the amount of throw you have on the lever on the trans. Hold a scale over the arm and have someone push in the clutch. Do it enough times to get a good measurement. What trans do you have?
If you do not do this you will not know where the problem is.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Doug...CAN'T just be the clutch disc: he has nearly no movement of the slave pushrod: therefore the problem is upstream of the clutch rod, either mechanical at the pedal assembly or in the hydraulic system.
Larry
You are right. He should continue to figure out the hydraulic problem.
With that much fluid pushed through the system with all of those bleeds, if there is a leak then there should be a puddle somewhere. Look under the car for any signs of fluid.
So I then ordered a new clutch slave cylinder and the flex line repair kit and installed them into my Fiero.
quote
Originally posted by asgosnell:
The flex line repair kit is on Rodney Dickmans website and it is used to fix the part of the hydraulic line that goes from the slave cylinder to the metal pipe.
quote
Originally posted by asgosnell:
No, I didn't use Rodney's slave, I was looking for a quick fix to get me to and from work for a couple weeks and couldn't wait for it to come in the mail.
Huh? You had the time to wait for the flex line repair kit from Rodney, but not enough time to wait for his slave cylinder?
You've still got air in the system. This has nothing to do with the clutch disc or the length of the slave cylinder pushrod.
One person's opinion of the amount of travel is different that someone else's. That is why one needs to use a scale. Then we know for sure what is what.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Check the banjo rod to be sure the curl is upward. It's possible that you created a problem when you replaced the master cylinder and installed the banjo upside down. Next, bleed the system using the gravity bleed method. It's a one person job and you don't break up any air bubbles by pumping the clutch pedal.
Jack up the left front of the car far enough to just lift the wheel off the ground. Fill the reservoir, leave the cap off and then open the slave bleeder. Let the fluid flow while tapping the side of the slave with a heavy tool. This is to shake any bubbles loose from the piston. They will flow uphill in the slave and exit the bleeder. Watch the reservoir and top it off each time it gets below the LOW level. Do this twice, close the bleeder then bring the fluid level to the FULL mark. Try the clutch for proper operation.
Installing a longer slave pushrod will only create other problems. Sometimes it will cause the clutch to not engage fully.
I have a 87 GT 3800 SC Getrag 5 Speed. Bought Rodney Dickman master and slave kit. ( also short shift mechanism) ( Very High Quality stuff. Dont bother elsewhere) Everything is top notch. Anyway, shifts great until the car gets hot, ( or warms to operating temp) it is impossible to engage 1st or 2nd gear. But 3,4 5 and reverse, no issue. If I shut the car off, it goes right in . Any thoughts on why Im having this issue only when hot? The pedal feels good. No hint of mushy pedal. Lots of travel. ( I can add more, have the adjustable rod on the MC) No issues shifting otherwise. Thanks in advance, Mike
I have a 87 GT 3800 SC Getrag 5 Speed. Bought Rodney Dickman master and slave kit. ( also short shift mechanism) ( Very High Quality stuff. Dont bother elsewhere) Everything is top notch. Anyway, shifts great until the car gets hot, ( or warms to operating temp) it is impossible to engage 1st or 2nd gear. But 3,4 5 and reverse, no issue. If I shut the car off, it goes right in . Any thoughts on why Im having this issue only when hot? The pedal feels good. No hint of mushy pedal. Lots of travel. ( I can add more, have the adjustable rod on the MC) No issues shifting otherwise. Thanks in advance, Mike
Check your ground straps, if broken the car can ground through the cables, heating them up and expanding them. Just something to check.
I have a 87 GT 3800 SC Getrag 5 Speed. Bought Rodney Dickman master and slave kit. ( also short shift mechanism) ( Very High Quality stuff. Dont bother elsewhere) Everything is top notch. Anyway, shifts great until the car gets hot, ( or warms to operating temp) it is impossible to engage 1st or 2nd gear. But 3,4 5 and reverse, no issue. If I shut the car off, it goes right in . Any thoughts on why Im having this issue only when hot? The pedal feels good. No hint of mushy pedal. Lots of travel. ( I can add more, have the adjustable rod on the MC) No issues shifting otherwise. Thanks in advance, Mike
I remembered this. I have always saved this guys email:
Rodney, After disassembling and reassembling my Getrag several times, I've found the cause of the lockup problem. The reverse lever, no. 153 in the shop manual, gets a slight bend/twist after a lot of use and puts the reverse shift rail slightly out of alignment with the other shift rails. It only takes about 1/32" but that's enough to prevent the shift interlock plate, no. 162, from sliding out of the way and allowing the shift rails to move. I put mine in a hydraulic press and straightened it and it shifts like a dream. I suspect the bend is the cause of the difficult shifting into 1st/2nd and 5th/reverse that is so common with Getrags. Hopes this helps with your tranny.
Dick Hedden
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
You had the time to wait for the flex line repair kit from Rodney, but not enough time to wait for his slave cylinder?
