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4.9 M90 Supercharger (Snails pace build) by arte444
Started on: 10-28-2012 09:55 PM
Replies: 81 (3811 views)
Last post by: engine man on 12-28-2014 05:47 PM
fieroguru
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Report this Post03-31-2013 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

I noticed that your belt tensioner is on the leading side of the blower. This should be avoided. The tensioner should always be placed "behind" all high load items (A/C compressor, Blower, Alternator) as it is meant to take up any slack on the back end. With the tensioner placed in front of the blower, any belt tension rise produced by the blower will compress the tensioner spring, causing the back end of the belt to loosen up and slip. Hope this makes sense.


Same message but difference in naming convention - I would say the tensioner should always be in front of major accessories. "In front" references the direction of belt travel, so the belt goes to the tensioner before it gets to any large accessory load, which places it on the low load side of the belt immediately following the crank pulley. In this install the belt goes from the crank pulley to SC, tensioner, water pump, alternator, then back to the crank pulley. So the tensioner should be between the crank pulley and the SC (where the other idler is).

Now if he replaced the spring loaded tensioner with a mechanical tensioner that locks into position it would work as well.
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arte444
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Report this Post03-31-2013 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I might do that if I have problems. Thanks for the tip!
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arte444
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Report this Post03-31-2013 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here are two videos of it running at 2500rpm. One of hte videos i simply had the tb clamped on, The other i made a gasket for and put 1 bolt in until i can finish my adapter plate.

I must have a leak somewhere as the rpm starts to race and smells really rich.

No evap can hooked up, no egr hooked up, no pcv valve.




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Report this Post04-01-2013 12:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmacClick Here to Email bmacSend a Private Message to bmacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Love it man!! I bet your head was spinning though. I think I got a headache from all the gas through my monitor
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Report this Post04-01-2013 03:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesClick Here to Email MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you have the throttle that came wih the supercharger?
if so, install it and see how it runs.
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arte444
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Report this Post04-01-2013 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Tightened up some bolts on the intake manifold to throttle body adapter. Helped a little bit. Idling at 1000rpm and pulling 15 vac. enough vac to spin the supercharger w/o a belt. I tried blocking off 3/4 of the throttle body and starting it, and it wouldnt start.

Definintely a misfire, maybe a couple cylinders are missing and dumping fuel out the exhaust. Running very rich! I let it run for 2 mins and the rpm eventually increased to 2250.

Im going to check some plugs maybe or throw the oem throttle body on there.
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arte444
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Report this Post04-06-2013 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update:
Turns out the oem fuel pressure regulator was broken after sitting for the winter. Unexpected problem but I will have it fixed soon.

Everything is apart again until I can verify that a new regulator has solved my too rich fuel problem.

I'm tapping 2 1/8 npt ports (after the supercharger) for boost lines feeding fmu, msd btm, boost gauge.

I will also be installing check valves on my vacuum sources near the throttle body.
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Report this Post04-11-2013 01:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesClick Here to Email MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Race is still on

.... I don't think you need to put check valves on anything except for the power booster.

The throttle side of the supercharger will never have boost anyway.

I wouldn't put check valves on the MAP sensor or fuel regulator.

If you put a check valve on these.... they will always read high vacuum.... and will cause a lean condition when you open the throttle beyond idle.
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arte444
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Report this Post04-11-2013 10:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MaxCubes:

Race is still on

.... I don't think you need to put check valves on anything except for the power booster.

The throttle side of the supercharger will never have boost anyway.

I wouldn't put check valves on the MAP sensor or fuel regulator.

If you put a check valve on these.... they will always read high vacuum.... and will cause a lean condition when you open the throttle beyond idle.


Thank you. I wasn't sure what to do. I was thinking about how the MAP sensor and EGR function all day yesterday. EGR might still need a check valve so it doesnt see boost I think.

I was thinking the oem fuel regulator should have a check valve though, but if the top vacuum tree only sees vacuum it should be ok.
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Justinbart
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Report this Post04-11-2013 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Booster has a check valve on the booster its self. You don't have to worry about it seeing boost. In my turbo car I made no changes. You could drill and tap for a hose barb into the supercharger neck between the TB and Rotors for a vacuum source that never sees boost or use the vacuum tree.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.17@132.6

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 04-11-2013).]

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Report this Post04-12-2013 02:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesClick Here to Email MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by arte444:


Thank you. I wasn't sure what to do. I was thinking about how the MAP sensor and EGR function all day yesterday. EGR might still need a check valve so it doesnt see boost I think.

I was thinking the oem fuel regulator should have a check valve though, but if the top vacuum tree only sees vacuum it should be ok.


The vacuum hose to the EGR valve should come from the EGR solenoid.... and there should be another vacuum line from the EGR solenoid to the vacuum tree.

.... I'm not sure if the EGR is going to function properly in your setup....

Your EGR valve is located in the boosted lower manifold.....if the EGR valve is open during boost.... and if the boost is higher than exhaust pressure...

....then some boost will leak away into the exhaust system.

On the 3800sc.... the EGR valve purges the exhaust gases into the throttle side of the supercharger.... the side that never has boost.


....Me .... I'm not using EGR at all.
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arte444
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Report this Post04-12-2013 09:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Excellent point! Having the EGR after the supercharger would still have it open during cruising speeds though? I'll probably end up blocking it. Just annoyed by the check engine light.
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arte444
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Report this Post04-13-2013 12:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
New pic. 1/8NPT ports tapped

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

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Report this Post04-21-2013 05:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesClick Here to Email MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wanted to share an idea I had for a shorter distributor cap with remote coil...

As you probably know, there is no "crab cap" available for the 4.9 distributor
But maybe one could be made....from two distributor caps....
The closest thing to having a remote coil for the HEI distributor was the cap that was available on the 1976 Blazer with a 6 cylinder engine
This cap will fit the 4.9...you would need to remove the four "hooks" and use screws to bolt it to the 4.9 distributor
.... and of course you would need 8 terminals...not six
So cut out the center section of this cap.... and insert a cap from a 1996 vortec V8.
The vortec cap would need to be shortend a little and set in dead center and clocked correctly.
use the rotor from the 76 .... and presto! ....you could have a low profile cap

.... and then, you could lower your supercharger some more to fit under the hood better.

.....just a thought.... here are some photos of what Im talking about....



cut out area inside yellow circle

[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 04-21-2013).]

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fieroguru
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Report this Post04-21-2013 07:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like the shorter cap idea, but it probably would be better to make an adapter ring that bolted to the 4.9 distributor and accepted/centered the stock Vortec crab distributor. Since caps are replaceable items it would be best to keep them stock.
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post04-21-2013 12:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
MAP and Fuel Pressure Regulator should be connected to the Intake Manifold.

Evap Purge and Power Brake Booster should connect to vacuum only sources located between the SC and throttle body.

You need a 2 bar MAP sensor and ECM programmed correctly for your application. Stock ECM programming is much more complicated than just adding fuel at some curve rate based on manifold pressure. Most likely that is going to mean a different ECM, such as the 7730. Talk to Ryan Gick of Sinister Performance for his recommendation.

You also need to have a scanner hooked up to the ALDL port and see what the ECM is reading, and then what the ECM is doing. Anything else is stumbling in the dark. Is the ECM commanding the idle to increase and thus opening up the IAC? If so why? If not then what is happening that the RPMs are increasing? Does the O2 sensor read the overly rich condition, or is it reading a lean condition and then adding fuel?

I sell the ALDL to USB cable at http://reddevilriver.com - TunerPro RT can scan both the 4.9 ECM and the 7730 ECM.

The ALDL cable can also be purchased elsewhere or hand held OBD1 scanners are also available, but if you go handheld, make sure it actually shows the sensors, not just reports on the trouble codes. I believe my cable along with TunerPro RT ends up being the least expensive, and the most useful way to scan your ECM.

Also +1 on blocking off the EGR. It would be complicated to hook up correctly and I don't think it's needed in MN.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 04-21-2013).]

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arte444
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Report this Post04-27-2013 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Vacuum leak through the snout bolts since some go into the air chamber. AGGG!!! Stripped one out too but somehow fixed it with a longer bolt. RTV copper on all the bolts as well.
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arte444
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Report this Post04-30-2013 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got it running. I can hit about 5psi so far but I think my gauge is goofy. Chewed up two belts so far also since its such a long run from the SC to the crank with only the smooth oem idler in between.

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carbon
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Report this Post04-30-2013 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gettin' close though!

You've come a long way since I first met you... years ago, you drove 75 miles from Mankato to the Mall of America with no hold down bolt on your newly swapped 4.9 distributor and had to keep stopping to turn it back.

You should come up again some time!
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arte444
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Report this Post04-30-2013 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When is the next meet for MFF? I'll try to make it.

Photo of a part I just bought.

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carbon
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Report this Post05-01-2013 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Keep an eye out on here, we're gonna try to get a few more MOA meets in this summer(if we ever get one) than last year. Last year we had approximately zero.
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Report this Post06-06-2013 02:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesClick Here to Email MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What throttle did you end up using?
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arte444
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Report this Post06-06-2013 08:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The one pictured on the first page. Northstar one I can't remember which year its from. Works great. Adapted it to the Supercharger pretty easily with a 1/4" spacer plate.

I've been doing a little work with the Cartech fmu but I think i'm missing the vent line check valve / adapter. This weekend I plan to cut the decklid if all my minor fixes seem to go well.

[This message has been edited by arte444 (edited 06-06-2013).]

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arte444
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Report this Post06-19-2013 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All the pieces are back together once again. Cartech FMU has been installed. Drove it a couple times and its staying together in one piece finally!!! Next is to cut that damn hood to make room for this supercharger.
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arte444
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Report this Post06-24-2013 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Preface. 3rd gear syncro is bad =)

Heres a sound only clip of my car.



------------------
-Kyle
Email: kakagiraffe@gmail.com
1988 Notchback 4900SC 5spd Isuzu, Spec Stage 4
True Dual Exhaust, Delta Cam
1992 Honda Civic EX
2006 Pontiac G6 Ecotec

[This message has been edited by arte444 (edited 07-05-2013).]

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Will
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Report this Post06-25-2013 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Time to update your sig?
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arte444
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Report this Post06-25-2013 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Indeed

------------------
-Kyle
Email: kakagiraffe@gmail.com
1988 Fiero Base 4900SC 5spd Isuzu, Spec Stage 4
True Dual Exhaust, Delta Cam, M90 Supercharger
1992 Honda Civic EX
2006 Pontiac G6 Ecotec

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arte444
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Report this Post07-05-2013 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fun video =)




------------------
-Kyle
Email: kakagiraffe@gmail.com
1988 Fiero Base 4900SC 5spd Isuzu, Spec Stage 4
True Dual Exhaust, Delta Cam, M90 Supercharger
1992 Honda Civic EX
2006 Pontiac G6 Ecotec

[This message has been edited by arte444 (edited 07-05-2013).]

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MaxCubes
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Report this Post07-07-2013 03:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesClick Here to Email MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
cool.... you should post some updated pics
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Report this Post07-08-2013 09:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And have your cameraman practice pointing the camera at the road rather than the dashboard
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arte444
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Report this Post07-08-2013 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

And have your cameraman practice pointing the camera at the road rather than the dashboard


Yeah yeah yeah =) I keep hearing that.
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Report this Post07-08-2013 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Some pictures of my mess.




[This message has been edited by arte444 (edited 07-08-2013).]

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Will
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Report this Post07-09-2013 09:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You have LOTS of organizing to do.
Rat Rod Black on the blower is nice.
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Capt Fiero
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Report this Post07-14-2013 02:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dang I can't belive I lost track of this thread. I was goofing around on YouTube searching for 4.9 Fiero videos and saw your video. I was like, Wait, I know that build......... When did he finish it, and had to come search here for your new thread. Last time I read it, you were still in the (bad shops) build thread. Congrats on getting it running. If I ever get back to Canada to repair the issues the "bad shop" left my car in, I may do some sort of boost. Seeing as we have a perfectly good S2 3800 SC GTP with a blown trans, maybe I will part out the GTP and use the blower on the 4.9. Could be interesting.

------------------
857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

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Report this Post08-01-2013 02:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MaxCubesClick Here to Email MaxCubesSend a Private Message to MaxCubesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Whats the latest?
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arte444
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Report this Post06-30-2014 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Measured 4lbs of boost. Just a little bit shorter than my prediction. Boost / Supercharger whine doesn't kick in until about 3500 rpm it seems. My rotors are probably pretty worn out, might goto a smaller pulley and see what happens. (BOOM)

Lots of fun. Same or more torque. Great throttle response.

I'll try to get in some donuts soon with a video =)
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Report this Post06-30-2014 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

arte444

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Member since Sep 2002
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

I noticed that your belt tensioner is on the leading side of the blower. This should be avoided. The tensioner should always be placed "behind" all high load items (A/C compressor, Blower, Alternator) as it is meant to take up any slack on the back end. With the tensioner placed in front of the blower, any belt tension rise produced by the blower will compress the tensioner spring, causing the back end of the belt to loosen up and slip. Hope this makes sense.


This might be happening as well
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arte444
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Report this Post07-10-2014 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pictures.

Rough cut the decklid. Still having trouble fitting over the snout. I don't really want to grind on that but might come up with an idea to glass around it.

Plan on using 02 wrx scoop.






Glovebox Scoop

[This message has been edited by arte444 (edited 07-10-2014).]

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Big Paul
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Report this Post07-10-2014 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Big PaulClick Here to Email Big PaulSend a Private Message to Big PaulEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cut the rest of the decklid and then glass a bump over the snout for support. Leave the rest of the supercharger visible. That would look so badass!
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Report this Post12-28-2014 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2tone86gtClick Here to Email 2tone86gtSend a Private Message to 2tone86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anything new on your build lately? Hope shes still kickin. Between you and Max cubes, I've been getting a lot of ideas and accumulating parts for a 4900 sc build here in good ol amish country... but I got a 5.3L swap to finish on my wrangler yet so I'm just watching from the side lines to see whats gonna work the best for me between you fellas experimenting lol. I'm hoping both you and max get back on the forum and start posting again... I would def like to know what kind of hp you guys are pushing. My goal is 300-350 hp which I don't think that is completely impossible with this motor and a m90.
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