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High Flow OEM Style Intake by HitesFiero
Started on: 09-14-2012 07:31 PM
Replies: 154 (9570 views)
Last post by: PatrickTRoof on 11-26-2014 12:36 AM
HitesFiero
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Report this Post09-14-2012 07:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I’ve spent a considerable amount of time designing and redesigning this intake with three basic goals:
1. Increase the usable power bands drop off from 4500 RPM to 6000 RPM.
2. Maintain the OEM look and keep the “Fiero’ness” intact.
3. Make swapping old with new direct and easy as possible.
I’m in the prototype casting and testing phase of this project now.
Once I have the final design parameters set I’ll begin production with intent to sell.
These intakes are intended to be a direct replacement for the OEM intake runners and plenum.
The throttle body is in the stock location; however, the TB coolant lines will need to be removed and capped at the thermostat housing.
The vacuum line ports will likely be relocated to minimize hose clutter.
Here are some pics of the 3D model.
I’ll have pics of the runner casting up soon.

Edit; The model doesn't show a EGR port, but the castings do have the provision.







[This message has been edited by HitesFiero (edited 09-14-2012).]

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HitesFiero
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Report this Post09-14-2012 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

HitesFiero

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HitesFiero
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Report this Post09-14-2012 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

HitesFiero

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eljibaro127
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Report this Post09-14-2012 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eljibaro127Click Here to Email eljibaro127Send a Private Message to eljibaro127Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How much horsepower will this increase? What is the flow rate? Also the starting price?
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Knight
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Report this Post09-14-2012 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KnightSend a Private Message to KnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are you going to fabricate this in aluminum? And are you designing this using some sort of flow modeling or VE program?
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HitesFiero
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Report this Post09-14-2012 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eljibaro127:

How much horsepower will this increase? What is the flow rate? Also the starting price?


All HP ratings are represented at a given RPM. The intake will increase the potential air flow and increase the usable RPM range which is the target objective. The additional airflow broader RPM range will defiantly net an increase in HP. The only way to truly get an accurate measure increase would be a before and after dyno session. I can only make an educated guess based on the math, but maybe 25-30HP.
The combination of shorter runners, tapered entries, and increased plenum volume roughly net a ~30% increase in flow.
I haven’t set a final price yet, but it will probably be in the range of 500$-600$.


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HitesFiero
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Report this Post09-14-2012 09:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

HitesFiero

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quote
Originally posted by Knight:

Are you going to fabricate this in aluminum? And are you designing this using some sort of flow modeling or VE program?


Yes, Im casting them in aluminum.

No flow modeling just applied geometry.
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HitesFiero
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Report this Post09-14-2012 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Casting pictures as promised

These are still rough with no finish maching yet.

The is the casting right out of the sand


Casting runners removed and carbon removed






[This message has been edited by HitesFiero (edited 09-14-2012).]

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HitesFiero
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HitesFiero

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ericjon262
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Report this Post09-14-2012 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
you gonna start casting heads too? short of the neck on the UIM, thats the real choke point, the mid intake is a decent design, far from great, but decent.

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HitesFiero
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Report this Post09-14-2012 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The OEM intake runners are too long to make decent power in the upper RPM range. They where origionally designed for much heavier Camaro.
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Report this Post09-14-2012 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KnightSend a Private Message to KnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is very exciting. The only thing that throws me off about the Truelo intake is that it looks fabbed up. I want something that looks like it was OEM. This could be it.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post09-14-2012 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice work! Now that the Truleo is discontinued this gives Fiero V6 owners a choice.

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[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 09-14-2012).]

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Report this Post09-14-2012 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KnightSend a Private Message to KnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did not realize that the truelo intake was discontinued. That is sad because it fit a void and a need.
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Report this Post09-15-2012 12:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pretty neat! Can't wait to see a completed unit .
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Report this Post09-15-2012 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You are smart!

Seriously, good luck.

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Report this Post09-15-2012 11:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Paris Hilton approves!

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Report this Post09-16-2012 02:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for retromanClick Here to Email retromanSend a Private Message to retromanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting indeed!! I'm doing a 3400 swap and I'm using the Camaro's intake, but even though it looks like it will flow better than the stock Fiero's (Again, just going off looks here. I haven't tested the flow or know anyone who has), it doesn't have the dressup of the old Fiero intake. Consider me subscribed to this thread...
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Report this Post09-16-2012 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BruceptsClick Here to visit Brucepts's HomePageClick Here to Email BruceptsSend a Private Message to BruceptsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Be interesting to see what the actual flow numbers will be?

I think you are going to find the square corner port runners are going to not flow what you think the math says they flow

I was just having a conversation the other day with someone who designs intakes in OZ for a racing venue and he was saying he had an intake tested on the dyno where they used 8 O2 sensors on the exhaust runners instead of just 2 in the primaries and he learned alot about one of his designs and flow distribution. He's now trying to workout how he can do comparison testing of what he found on the dyno with what he sees on the flowbench.

Got me thinking about the flow distribution in the Fiero upper plenum . . . personally I think that is one thing to consider; how the runners "see" the flow from the plenum area. If one or two runners get all the flow the rest starve for air.

Just some observations and if you need any flow testing on your design give me a shout! I'll gladly put it on the flowbench for the Fiero community!

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"There is no more formidable adversary than one who perceives he has nothing to lose." - Gen. George S. Patton
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Report this Post09-16-2012 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
kool..
what would be awesome, an intake that mates a 3.8 s/c to a 2.8/3.1/3.4
then flow, somewhat is a moot point..
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HitesFiero
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Report this Post09-18-2012 04:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Brucepts:

Be interesting to see what the actual flow numbers will be?

I think you are going to find the square corner port runners are going to not flow what you think the math says they flow

I was just having a conversation the other day with someone who designs intakes in OZ for a racing venue and he was saying he had an intake tested on the dyno where they used 8 O2 sensors on the exhaust runners instead of just 2 in the primaries and he learned alot about one of his designs and flow distribution. He's now trying to workout how he can do comparison testing of what he found on the dyno with what he sees on the flowbench.

Got me thinking about the flow distribution in the Fiero upper plenum . . . personally I think that is one thing to consider; how the runners "see" the flow from the plenum area. If one or two runners get all the flow the rest starve for air.

Just some observations and if you need any flow testing on your design give me a shout! I'll gladly put it on the flowbench for the Fiero community!



Thanks for your input;
The pressure differential for gas (air) is at or near equal in all six runners, so distribution will be fine in a vacuum or boost setup. The port entries on the prototype have a 5mm radius on all the edges.
This is very similar to some of the old tunnel ram type intakes from the 60’s and 70’s, it’s just been flattened out a bit and of course it’s dry flow (no carburetors).

[This message has been edited by HitesFiero (edited 09-18-2012).]

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Report this Post10-02-2012 10:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Progress report;
- The runner assemblies top and bottom gasket surfaces have been machined.
- Working on a jig for drilling the bolt bosses.
- Finished templates for plenum casting cores.
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Report this Post10-02-2012 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
wow! nice job with the lower plenum!

when I first started looking at the thread, I thought it was just the upper you were doing.
I had gutted & re-done my upper plenum to remove the runners & open the neck. It was a nice improvemnt. raised my shift point to from 4600 to 5300RPMs. still not the 6000RPM shift point I was hoping for - but, I expect thats in more head porting.
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Report this Post10-02-2012 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm keeping an eye on this one, planning a 3.4 build real soon.
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Report this Post10-03-2012 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSClick Here to Email BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What is the height of this unit compared to a stock Fiero plenum?

There might be a market for you in the engine swapping sector as a lot of MG swaps exist.
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HitesFiero
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Report this Post10-03-2012 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BillS:

What is the height of this unit compared to a stock Fiero plenum?

There might be a market for you in the engine swapping sector as a lot of MG swaps exist.


The stock height comes in around 155mm (6.1in).
The high flow unit measures 188mm (7.4in).
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Report this Post10-04-2012 01:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for outlawfiero17Click Here to Email outlawfiero17Send a Private Message to outlawfiero17Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Whats the price range estimated to be?
I really like the design and wouldnt think twice about buying one. As long as its not a complete bank breaker.
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Report this Post10-04-2012 03:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can't wait to see some flow numbers with the lower intake installed. Personally I think the lower intake offers a significant restriction where the fuel injector bosses protrude into the intake runners.


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Report this Post10-11-2012 08:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any update on the project?
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HitesFiero
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Report this Post10-16-2012 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hiwil88formula:

Any update on the project?


Working on finishing the jigs used to make the cores. Very close........
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Report this Post10-16-2012 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by HitesFiero:

The pressure differential for gas (air) is at or near equal in all six runners, so distribution will be fine in a vacuum or boost setup.


How do you know, without CFD or testing?
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Report this Post10-16-2012 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Will

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I strongly advise that you make the "FIERO" writing on the upper a machined item rather than cast. That way your potential markets will include non-Fiero applications...
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Report this Post11-05-2012 06:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for StreetRod4Send a Private Message to StreetRod4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump, any updates?
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Report this Post11-05-2012 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hopefully you are puttnig this on an otherwise mostly stock car, so we know what it will gain in a mostly stock car.
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Report this Post11-05-2012 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportClick Here to Email Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It be also interesting if you can make a dual throttle body intake that has a "stock"/OEM look. (Like Ferrari, etc. See: dual throttle body threads)
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Report this Post11-06-2012 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
my two cents, there is bracketry that bolts to the upper plenum on fieros... how do you plan on keeing this an oe replacement?
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HitesFiero
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Report this Post11-14-2012 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by StreetRod4:

Bump, any updates?


Sorry for the lull in fresh info, my real job has been keeping me busy.


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HitesFiero
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Report this Post11-14-2012 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

HitesFiero

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quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Hopefully you are puttnig this on an otherwise mostly stock car, so we know what it will gain in a mostly stock car.



Yes, a stock 2.8 with ported exaust manifolds.
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HitesFiero
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Report this Post11-14-2012 04:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

HitesFiero

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quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

It be also interesting if you can make a dual throttle body intake that has a "stock"/OEM look. (Like Ferrari, etc. See: dual throttle body threads)



I wondered how long it would be before someone asked that question.

I have a rough 3D model of one, but it's nowhere near complete
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HitesFiero
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Report this Post11-14-2012 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroClick Here to Email HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

HitesFiero

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quote
Originally posted by AL87:

my two cents, there is bracketry that bolts to the upper plenum on fieros... how do you plan on keeing this an oe replacement?


The plenum box has bosses for the throttle/cruise cables bracket and for the map sensor.

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