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Audi A8 My Fiero by engine man
Started on: 06-10-2012 12:09 PM
Replies: 1846 (82331 views)
Last post by: engine man on 12-15-2018 02:30 PM
engine man
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Report this Post06-10-2012 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I have bought an 1998 Audi A8 engine and a 2001 Passat 012 transmission plus the wiring harness and ECU to put in my 1988 Fiero T Top car . The engine will be mounted Longitudinal not transverse i will not stretch the car or cut the fire wall I should be able to keep the CV joint angle at about 10 degrees since the engine is so short. If one of you could send me the wiring schematic for a 1998 audi A8 so i can figure out the harness i would appreciate that

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Racing_Master
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Report this Post06-10-2012 02:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racing_MasterSend a Private Message to Racing_MasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I had the same idea... but a W8 from Volkswagen instead of the A8's V8... Good luck! I'll be watching this one!

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engine man
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Report this Post06-10-2012 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

thanks i am looking for the A8 wiring schematic

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Racing_Master
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Report this Post06-10-2012 03:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racing_MasterSend a Private Message to Racing_MasterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

thanks i am looking for the A8 wiring schematic


I USED To have alldata, but I changed jobs and we are working on getting the alldata subscription there. Once we get it, I will try and get them for ya. I hope we get it soon enough.

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MstangsBware
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Report this Post06-10-2012 04:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Here we go again.......

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firejo24
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Report this Post06-10-2012 05:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for firejo24Send a Private Message to firejo24Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Better plan on stiffening the undercarriage as there is a lot of missing strength in the T-top cars. Adding horse power adds flex which the T-top can’t handle.

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post06-10-2012 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:

Here we go again.......


No, he bought the motor, eventhough he showed us a picture of the car instead of the motor which I'd have preferred to see.

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engine man
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Report this Post06-10-2012 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i will pick engine ,wiring harness , ecu & transmission up on Wednesdays when i have some free time it is all paid for they dint have it out yesterday when i went over will post pics of it all . yes I am going to stiffen the chassis

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 06-10-2012).]

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motoracer838
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Report this Post06-11-2012 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Engine Man, here's a little something to help motivate you, Porsche Boxster with an Audi 4.2.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...ture=player_embedded

Joe

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mikejhjr
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Report this Post06-11-2012 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mikejhjrClick Here to Email mikejhjrSend a Private Message to mikejhjrEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am not too up to speed on this engine/wiring. But if it's like most VW stuff aren't you going to need the dash too?

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engine man
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Report this Post06-11-2012 05:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the video i liked it ! I am not sure about the wiring i more than likely will be using the megasquirt 3 due to it is about the same money as the chip and immobilizer that 034 motor sports sells

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FieroWannaBe
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Report this Post06-11-2012 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeClick Here to Email FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

http://www.delcohacking.net...6ae029118ced15a8416c
OSE 12P would cost you about 50$ total to get a running motor with. I'm using this for a 4.0l Aurora motor.
I paid 20$ for a 88 trans am ECU, the stock fiero wiring works, and the system is compatible with the northstar coilpacks.

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engine man
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Report this Post06-11-2012 10:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

OK so i need a 88 ecu from a trans am do i need to repin the fiero harness or does it just plug right in and the get this OSE 12P what ever it is so pleas explain for us computer ignorant folks. i am trying to figure out if it works with a 60-2 trigger wheel I sure am going to need help with this part of the build

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 06-11-2012).]

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GraterFang
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Report this Post06-12-2012 03:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GraterFangClick Here to Email GraterFangSend a Private Message to GraterFangEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Darn text lingo... l couldn't help but read the thread title as "Audi ate My Fiero"

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Will
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Report this Post06-12-2012 10:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe:

http://www.delcohacking.net...6ae029118ced15a8416c
OSE 12P would cost you about 50$ total to get a running motor with. I'm using this for a 4.0l Aurora motor.
I paid 20$ for a 88 trans am ECU, the stock fiero wiring works, and the system is compatible with the northstar coilpacks.


The most important detail is what kind of triggering does the ECM require?
If it's like all the other OBDI GM ECM's, then it needs 1x per ignition event triggering... Getting that from the Audi engine will need custom work.

While it works with the Northstar coil packs, the Northstar coil packs only work with the Northstar trigger wheel (AFAIK).

 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:
i am trying to figure out if it works with a 60-2 trigger wheel I sure am going to need help with this part of the build


If the Audi has the 60-2 trigger wheel, and fixed cam timing, then you could run it with the Motronic 3.3 DME from a 1993-1995 BMW 540i... it would have to be tuned, but I believe that service is available from http://www.millerperformancecars.com/

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-12-2012).]

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Marvin McInnis
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Report this Post06-12-2012 10:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Marvin McInnisClick Here to visit Marvin McInnis's HomePageSend a Private Message to Marvin McInnisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:

Here we go again.......



X2

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engine man
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Report this Post06-12-2012 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the help Will i will look into the motronic from the 540

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engine man
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Report this Post06-12-2012 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I found the computer for $100 I just will need the schematics and the right connectors and make a harness thanks again Will

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FieroWannaBe
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Report this Post06-12-2012 12:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeClick Here to Email FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

If the Audi has the 60-2 trigger wheel, and fixed cam timing, then you could run it with the Motronic 3.3 DME from a 1993-1995 BMW 540i... it would have to be tuned, but I believe that service is available from http://www.millerperformancecars.com/



Is that computer the 404DME? If so tunerpro has a definition available for the 540i, and looking at the chip, one can be burned easily with a EPROM burner. Ive done it successfully with a 173DME for a 89 325e/i hybrid. that would work better than attempting a mail-order tune on a irregular engine hybrid.

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FieroWannaBe
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Report this Post06-12-2012 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeClick Here to Email FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

OK so i need a 88 ecu from a trans am do i need to repin the fiero harness or does it just plug right in and the get this OSE 12P what ever it is so pleas explain for us computer ignorant folks. i am trying to figure out if it works with a 60-2 trigger wheel I sure am going to need help with this part of the build


Any MAF 3rd gen V8 computer will work, or a 90-91 2.5L s-series truck. the fiero connectors for the ECU plug in, but wiring is different.
A nothertar style rigger wheel is needed, and people make them for sale.

Will's suggestion would work better as it's less work. And you could tune it yourself if your willing to learn how.

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engine man
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Report this Post06-12-2012 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i would love to learn how to tune with a computer ! I was wondering Audi uses Bosch for there ECU i wonder if they used the same one on there 93- 95 . Motronic is a Bosch ecu right ?

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 06-12-2012).]

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Will
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Report this Post06-12-2012 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe:

Is that computer the 404DME? If so tunerpro has a definition available for the 540i, and looking at the chip, one can be burned easily with a EPROM burner. Ive done it successfully with a 173DME for a 89 325e/i hybrid. that would work better than attempting a mail-order tune on a irregular engine hybrid.


I didn't know TunerPro had the definition file for it, or even that they were branching out to the Bosch systems, but Miller Performance does essentially the same thing. Their WAR chip is an emulator that works with the OBDI BMW DME and gives the same tuning capability as a Moates Ostrich.

I recently embarked on a Ferrari project... I may have to check TunerPro for the Motronic 2.5 & 2.7 definitions from a Ferrari 348.

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Will
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Report this Post06-12-2012 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

I found the computer for $100 I just will need the schematics and the right connectors and make a harness thanks again Will


www.car-parts.com
Look for "Wiring Harness/Misc. Electric" at the very end of the parts listing.

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FieroWannaBe
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Report this Post06-12-2012 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeClick Here to Email FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


I didn't know TunerPro had the definition file for it, or even that they were branching out to the Bosch systems, but Miller Performance does essentially the same thing. Their WAR chip is an emulator that works with the OBDI BMW DME and gives the same tuning capability as a Moates Ostrich.

I recently embarked on a Ferrari project... I may have to check TunerPro for the Motronic 2.5 & 2.7 definitions from a Ferrari 348.


The definitions for the VW VR6 on the motoronic 2.7 are available, however I see no Ferrari listed, but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist, or cant be made.

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engine man
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Report this Post06-12-2012 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Will i did find a harness just needed to widen the search on car parts.com . The Engine pics i promised a day early




the engine is 20 inches from front pulley to bellhousing flange but the transmission measured 6.75 to the middle of the axle

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 06-12-2012).]

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engine man
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Report this Post06-12-2012 08:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

how low would you dare to run the engine's oil pan from the ground

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seajai
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Report this Post06-12-2012 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

How tall is the engine? Seeing as how the firewall is angled and you want the least amount of angle on the CV shafts, I would think to run it as low as bottom of the cradle, lower if you make a skid shield. This would allow you to get it as far forward as possible.

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engine man
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Report this Post06-13-2012 06:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

the engine is 25 tall from the bottom of the oil pan to the top of the intake and it is 23 inches tall to the top of the timing belt covers . the engine bay is 24 inches from the top of the cradle to the top at the firewall and the cradle frame rail are 4 inches tall

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engine man
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Report this Post06-13-2012 06:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

the first thing that will hit the firewall would be the timing belt covers. my plan is to run the engine oil pan 2 inches below the frame rails and maybe put an aluminum belly pan under it

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 06-13-2012).]

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bmwguru
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Report this Post06-13-2012 06:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Interesting swap choice.

If I can throw my two cents in, here is the way I would run it. I would use the Audi pcm and not use the cluster from the Audi, and eliminate the auto transmission, ABS, and Immo from the pcm programming. Use the throttle pedal from the Audi and trick the pcm into believing it is still in the Audi. You would need VAG-COM to be able to run the throttle adaptations, but when something breaks in the future, diagnosis will be easy.
I'd also advise to replace the timing belt, water pump and timing components regardless of engine mileage. You will need to buy all the tools to do it. Don't mark the pulleys and try to get around that....it never works. Baum Tools in Florida sells the tools needed. The cam sprockets need to be "popped" and dialed in or the engine doesn't run correctly and can set a check engine light for incorrect camshaft timing.
Use synthetic oil and buy a good oil filter: MANN, MAHLE....not FRAM
Good luck and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

Dave

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www.hausofguru.com

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Will
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Report this Post06-13-2012 07:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

the first thing that will hit the firewall would be the timing belt covers. my plan is to run the engine oil pan 2 inches below the frame rails and maybe put an aluminum belly pan under it



I would not go that low. Keep it flush with the bottom surface of the cradle rails.

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Report this Post06-13-2012 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

thanks guy's, so the 98 A8 was drive by wire throttle hmm i am not a big fan of that but as long as it can be tuned to just do what my foot is telling it and not give me some crappy throttle response . after thinking about it Will you are right the gain i would get froward wouldn't be worth it being lower . again thanks for the input

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 06-13-2012).]

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Will
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Report this Post06-13-2012 03:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You can use this Ferrari transaxle: http://www.ebay.com/itm/190461577923

It puts the axle closer to the back of the engine than pretty much anything else (Engine bolts to the left end of the unit as it sits in the picture).

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engine man
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Report this Post06-13-2012 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

yup just get into my wallet and pull out my spare change NP

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FieroWannaBe
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Report this Post06-13-2012 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeClick Here to Email FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

You can use this Ferrari transaxle: http://www.ebay.com/itm/190461577923

It puts the axle closer to the back of the engine than pretty much anything else (Engine bolts to the left end of the unit as it sits in the picture).



Wheres the rest of it?

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Will
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Report this Post06-14-2012 07:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe:

Wheres the rest of it?


For that particular unit, he'd have to source a clutch housing from somewhere.

The engine bolts to the left end, the clutch and clutch housing go on the right end. A clutch job should be relatively easy.

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Report this Post06-14-2012 08:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I was looking under an A8 yesterday in the shop and you may want to measure the length of the engine. If you don't modify the firewall, it will put the axles in line with the rear cradle bushings which is too far back using that transmission.

Dave

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engine man
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Report this Post06-14-2012 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

yes it will be out of alignment but i am told as long as i am 25 degrees or less angle with stock CV joints then i am fine and i figure i will be in the 10 to 15 degree range so I am not really that concerned with it being out of line. you only have to look at some ATV 's or off road trucks to see that they run more angle then i will but thanks for the concern about it

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engine man
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Report this Post06-14-2012 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thought i would post a few pictures of the angle of the axle i expect to be running . the top picture shows the maximum angle the axle can go when it binds about 25 degrees the bottom picture is about the angle i expect to be running around the 15 degree mark.
the axles are within 1 inch of the correct length

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fast40driver
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Report this Post06-15-2012 01:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fast40driverClick Here to Email fast40driverSend a Private Message to fast40driverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I might have just gotten lucky, but had no problems with changing the belt on my A8 (D2 5-valve) without popping the cam sprockets. I definitely think you should change it and the waterpump, though. Seems like someone online had the tool set available for rent.

Mike

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