I have a 2.8 with the 5 speed. I also have some mods that I want to be doing in the future. 1. Truleo intake (this one https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/059562.html) I will be picking this up Tuesday 2. headers and exhaust change (later) 3. 3.4L pr (later)
Now I have some questions: 1. Will your offering be Plug and play? (with the understanding that the 5 wires need re-pinning) 2. Do you believe that there will be code changes necessary with the above mods or will it be able to handle them via the learn function? Or will I even need to use the learn function?
I'll probably have more questions later.
[This message has been edited by n7vrz (edited 11-28-2011).]
I have a 2.8 with the 5 speed. I also have some mods that I want to be doing in the future. 1. Truleo intake (this one https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/059562.html) I will be picking this up Tuesday 2. headers and exhaust change (later) 3. 3.4L pr (later)
Now I have some questions: 1. Will your offering be Plug and play? (with the understanding that the 5 wires need re-pinning) 2. Do you believe that there will be code changes necessary with the above mods or will it be able to handle them via the learn function? Or will I even need to use the learn function?
I'll probably have more questions later.
This ecu setup is for the most part plug-and-play. As far as code changes, for a close to stock engine, should not be a problem when I have my engine tuned to where I like it. For the other mods, there may be a few changes needed, but easy to do using the flash tool that goes with this code. The learn function will get you close to what the engine needs, but the fine details are up to the tuner(you). I can help where I can when that time arrives.
The beauty of this system is that I can send a modified calibration through email and with the flash tool, update the tune on the chip without having to remove anything. All is done through the aldl port with a laptop and an aldl interface.
Any advise on running this set up on a dis ignition?
Setting the spark reference angle to 70 is about all there is. The rest of the ignition settings remain the same. In tunerpro, the angle comes out to be 69.96, close enough.
EDIT: After looking at things, the settings posted by JDV are correct. Learn something new every day.
[This message has been edited by chetw77cruiser (edited 12-13-2011).]
Well, I completed another trip to Douglas Wyo. from Walden CO. and fueled at Wheatland Wyo. I drove 140 miles and fueled the car with just 2.62 gallons. Averaged near 53 MPG with a 86 SE with 4 speed. Granted there was a good tailwind most of the way, but still nothing to laugh at. Before the ecu and code swap, I averaged 32 MPG on this exact trip, now with the swap, I average near 40 MPG without any help from the wind. I am happy with this swap so far.
If anyone is interested, I still have a couple nvram boards left for this swap.
So I now own the guinnea pig SE again, having traded it back and forth. I have driven this car with both the stock ecu and now the 7165. All I can say is WOW! It feels completely different the throttle is much more responsive and the engine torque is much smoother. The car doesnt feel overall faster, but a couple ticks over stock could be possible with this tune. Butt dyno only... It really is worth the swap in my opinion based entirely on the smoothness of the revs.
So far there has been no auto cars at this time. Would you like to be the first? Maybe Four_hundred_86 could stop by on his way east and show you what I have done so far on his car.
As far as drivability, with the computer tuned correctly, you will have a better driving car. Fuel mileage should increase slightly, but with the auto probably not to much. The car I was working on before it was taken from me could average 36MPG highway as long as you were easy. Before the swap it would average about 28MPG and didn't run as good. Keep in mind that this is an 86 SE V6 with the 4 speed and 60-65 MPH speeds.
You would be the first with the 2.5, so we will be entering teritory. Luckily the 7165 will run a single TBI injector so we are set in that area. Wow much skill do you have in ecu tuning? I could probably get a base program made to get things started, but you will need to datalog and send the information back. I will take that, make appropriate changes and send it back to you to flash the chip. No need to remove the computer or the chip, just need to connect a laptop with the appropriate software and off we go.
This guy pointed out something important that you've not mentioned for our 87 Fiero friend about having to take his harness apart inside the cabin, and rebuild the ECM end with new harness connectors and pins.
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:
I might be able to test the '7165 in a four cylinder application.
The four cylinder won't be a drop-in though, since the 4 cylinder ECMs all use edge-card connectors. My harness is converted over to use conventional connectors since I'm using the EBL flash.
[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 01-05-2012).]
This guy pointed out something important that you've not mentioned for our 87 Fiero friend about having to take his harness apart inside the cabin, and rebuild the ECM end with new harness connectors and pins.
Good point, forgot about that. Best way around that would be to make an adapter to go between the 4cyl harness and the 7165 ecu. I could make something up fairly quickly if others are interested. I could do this for the v6 harness as well. This would make for an easier swap and allow to go back to the stock computer for whatever reason.
You would be the first with the 2.5, so we will be entering teritory. Luckily the 7165 will run a single TBI injector so we are set in that area. Wow much skill do you have in ecu tuning? I could probably get a base program made to get things started, but you will need to datalog and send the information back. I will take that, make appropriate changes and send it back to you to flash the chip. No need to remove the computer or the chip, just need to connect a laptop with the appropriate software and off we go.
Sent you a PM. Haven't tuned an ECU yet, but ready and able to learn.
Good point, forgot about that. Best way around that would be to make an adapter to go between the 4cyl harness and the 7165 ecu. I could make something up fairly quickly if others are interested. I could do this for the v6 harness as well. This would make for an easier swap and allow to go back to the stock computer for whatever reason.
Do you have a source for the male end of the edge card type ECM connectors? If so, I'd be interested in an adapter, at least.
Do you have a source for the male end of the edge card type ECM connectors? If so, I'd be interested in an adapter, at least.
I do not have a source but I do make my own circuit boards. This connector style is easy to replicate. I have just finished designing an adapter to go between the 2.5 harness and the 7165. Hopefully there will be enough room for it. I will make one up and see if it will fit into one of my parts cars with the 2.5. The nice thing is that I can also work with a 7730 as well, but not today.
Well, I completed another trip to Douglas Wyo. from Walden CO. and fueled at Wheatland Wyo. I drove 140 miles and fueled the car with just 2.62 gallons. Averaged near 53 MPG with a 86 SE with 4 speed. Granted there was a good tailwind most of the way, but still nothing to laugh at. Before the ecu and code swap, I averaged 32 MPG on this exact trip, now with the swap, I average near 40 MPG without any help from the wind. I am happy with this swap so far.
If anyone is interested, I still have a couple nvram boards left for this swap.
Keep tuning my friends.
Chet W.
I'm interested as well. If you could PM me details, that would be great.
Well, I completed another trip to Douglas Wyo. from Walden CO. and fueled at Wheatland Wyo. I drove 140 miles and fueled the car with just 2.62 gallons. Averaged near 53 MPG with a 86 SE with 4 speed. Granted there was a good tailwind most of the way, but still nothing to laugh at. Before the ecu and code swap, I averaged 32 MPG on this exact trip, now with the swap, I average near 40 MPG without any help from the wind. I am happy with this swap so far.
If anyone is interested, I still have a couple nvram boards left for this swap.
Keep tuning my friends.
Chet W.
I'm interested as well. If you could PM me details, that would be great.
Received my nvram today and installed it . Ran the flash tool and installed the bin with my calibration on it through the aldl. She fired right up and ran better than with the ostrich with less cables. This is on a 3500 with 24# injectors and dis. We need to do more tuning but it's much better now. My SLC dyi2 is giving odd readings which might be an air leak in the exhaust.Thanks Chet for all the help
That is good to see this is working for you. Being that the ecm is a flash setup makes tuning easier and faster. No need to remove the ecu, erase and burn a new chip, then put everything back together. Not needing an emulator is also nice not having in the way.
Just ordered the bends to use the stock 3500 manifolds. I plan on doing 2.25 " short duels with spark arresters like supper traps. I have the stock 2.8 manifolds modified to work on 3500 but i have an air leak that is throwing the o2 reading off. Can i turn off the o2 sensor input till I get this problem solved?I am working on putting the 3100 $a1 timing over to $12p as the aluminum heads like less timing.It runs fine once warmed up but will float at idle with the headlights on.
[This message has been edited by jdv (edited 02-11-2012).]
Do you think the nvram would work in my 165 ecm from a 2.5 that is running a 1.5 engine. I have been using the auto prom and tuner pro and just getting the engine started and idling. I have the innovate wb and installed an extra bung in the exhaust for the wb. My biggest problem is I am running the GM 2.5 eight pin distributor in the 1.5 engine and the distributor rotates the opposite direction of the 2.5. Needless to say the EST retards the spark instead of advancing. Can this be corrected in your code? In TPro I tried to run negative advance but can't go under zero. I also like the auto learn you spoke of. If you have more nvrams I have interest. If this is inappropriate on this site I am sorry.
The code is installed on the nvam and they go hand in hand. The code can be set to run a 4 cylinder engine but would take a bit of tuning to get things right. I would need to take a look at your wiring pinout and compare to ehat this code needs. I am always up to a challange.
The ecm is 1227165 out of 91 s-10 2.5 vin e. I have ecm wiring saved and tried to attach. Can't ad link because it is a paid for site All Data I could e mail the diagrams or if you have another idea ? So you have not used nvram on this ecm?
The nvram does work with this ecu, the difference is in the code. There shouldn't be much difference in the wiring department as the ecu hardware determines what goes where.
How much fine tuning did you have to do to achieve that mileage? What is your final drive ratio? I'm wondering what my mileage would be driving the car in 4th ('87 5-speed)... I don't have the funds now, but I want to get an EBL for mine (been running one on a TBI-fed, Vortec-headed 383 with a cam, headers, etc. for over a year now) and get some fine tuning done. I already have a WB02 but it's currently simulating NB in the truck... whenever I get the EBL I'll probably move the WB over for tuning.
The test mule is an 86 SE with stock 4 speed(3.65 final) and stock size tires, snow tires to be exact.
I had to do relatively little tuning to get this code to match the engine, especially using the self tuning function. Using this to coarse tune the code and then by hand for the fine tuning, things were good. Here is where the increase came from. I advanced timing a few degrees and leaned out the mixture using the lean burn section of the code. With this enabled, I was able to gain 5 mpg over the base tuning. The base tune was 4mpg better than the stock computer.
The test mule is now in Kansas City so I haven't been able to do much with this project lately, hopefully the current owner will speak up about how well this setup is running.
The great thing about this setup is that I can tune form across great distances using nothing but a few data logs. I then send a file to the owner who has a laptop. He then attaches to the aldl port and flashes the new code into the the ecu, taking no more than about 30 seconds. No chips to burn, nothing to take apart, etc.
Like many 2.8 owners, I'm fighting an idle problem that I haven't been able to figure out, and I'm increasingly concerned it's an ECM problem. This 7165 conversion is in the back of my mind as something I might be interested in doing "some day" to fix this thing for good.
I'm in California, so it's important to be able to easily swap back to the factory ECM for emissions testing. I don't know if the inspector would notice the ECM swap when he hooks up to it, but if he did, I'm sure it would be an automatic fail. The draconian laws here don't allow any modifications from what was stock in 1986, regardless of the tailpipe results.
That said, my hope is that the 7165 would not be noticed, and I could get the car tested with it in place. In fact emissions are one of the reasons I'm interested in the swap. Obviously he won't see the ECM visually, but I have no idea what the inspector sees on his screen when he hooks up to the ALDL port. I also wonder if it will behave as expected if he shorts A&B. All sensors would need to stay in their original locations, just like the emissions sticker shows them. From what I understand, the 7165 will work with the 7170's sensors so that shouldn't be a problem. If the upgrade can be invisible it just might be a good option for residents of this irrational state. And it might even improve emissions and make it easier to pass.
Question: Has anybody with this swap done an emissions test with it yet? Did your tailpipe results get better or worse compared to the stock 7170? It sounds like it's been tuned pretty well for performance and fuel mileage, but I'm concerned that nobody really has the means to tune for emissions so this is a question mark. The test limits here are pretty ridiculous, way tighter than they were even in the 90s.. for an 80s car that we're not allowed to modify. :eyeroll:
If he's coming through town and I'm in town, we can certainly meet up and get something going.
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