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Installing New Camaro T-top Seals on a Fiero with lots of pictures by bowrapennocks
Started on: 10-14-2009 01:47 PM
Replies: 36 (5140 views)
Last post by: Cokeologist on 02-12-2020 01:49 PM
bowrapennocks
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Report this Post10-14-2009 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
EDITED FOR SUMMARY

Here is what I learned

Make sure you have identified and resolved all body leaks before attempting changing the seals. I removed the seats, carpeting, headliner, and rear spekers, then did an extensive water test with a garden hose and sprinkler. Many people claim their t-tops do not leak, but the leaks are usually hidden. Many Fieros that I looked at in the rainy Northwest were moldy on the inside from these small, behind the fabric leaks.

I found and repaired many minor body leaks including
1. There was a small hole drilled in the t-top frame under where the rear top trim molding goes.
2. There was a body seam leak in the bottom of the passenger B pillar, only accessible after removing the quarter panel.
3. Both air vents in the B pillar dripped water which required removal of the sail panels
4. There was a leak due to a cracked seam on the upper part of the driver B pillar only accessible by removing the rear clip
5. There was a small leak coming from the engine compartment where the shift cables come through.

It is not cheap even with the not so expensive F82 Camaro seals because you have to buy another set of door seals because the Camaro seals are joined in a different place. I also had to buy the seals for the glass top itself because mine were deformed. With other projects in hand, I spent three months to accomplish the task. In using Camaro seals, you have to cut the B pillars and carefully glue together seals.

It was worth it. The car is now leak free.
ORIGINAL TEXT
After many unsuccessful attempts to resolve leaks in my 87 T-top coupe, I realized I had to replace the seals. This is a bold step, because correct seals for Fiero T-tops are almost non-existent, so other seals have to be adapted. After I removed my driver’s side seal, I found a possible leak path that I had not seen documented before. The leak path is in a place behind the T-top seal B Butt joint, where the seal attached to the top of the B pillar, in the area the B pillar was originally cut to install the T-top. The open area was filled with caulking, which eventually failed. See my earlier posts on the subject.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/102941.html

Fortunately, C&C also did T-top conversions on Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs and other cars. Some people have used Mustang seals; there appear to be at least three versions of Mustang seals used in the 80’s. Last spring at the Kit Car show in Carlisle, I saw an 88 Formula from NY where the owner installed his own T-tops and used Mustang seals. He did not know which versions he had used. He had to splice in a piece of the original T-top seal at the bottom of the A pillar, shorten the part that goes around the top, re-section the B Butt joint, and do some sort of splice at the bottom of the B pillar. Unfortunately, I did not have my camera available at the time, so I do not have pictures of his install.

On PFF, there are some posts briefly describing using the 87-88 Mustang seals (PN WSTT6 newly manufactured and available at CJPonyParts.com). There was one post that stated the F82 Camaro seals were a better fit than the Mustang seals, so I went with those. I purchased my seals from

http://www.sunroofdoctor.com/

These are NOS C&C seals as used on the 1982-1992 Camaro and Firebird conversions. Firebirds and Camaros also had factory installed T-tops. These are referred to as Fisher, and are quite different. Last time I spoke with the sunroofdoctor, they had 800+ seals in stock, a supply good for at least 10 years at their current selling rate. Since the F82 seals do not have the bend at the bottom of the A pillar, I recognized that I would have to splice in a real Fiero seal. Since one of the leak areas in my car was the front splice between the C&C seal and the cut down Fiero seal, I also ordered a new set of Fiero Store door seals.

First I wanted to remove the existing seal intact, so I could replace them if all did not work. I used a putty knife, plastic windshield seal tool, and screwdriver (to pry up the top seal that goes around the opening)







I wire brushed and painted all areas before proceeding.


The cross sections of the Fiero store seals and the F82 seals are very similar, so they can be successfully spliced together. The F82 A pillar cross section is on the left and the Fiero Store seal is on the right. The part that mounts to the A pillar is on top. Notice that it is wider on the Fiero Store seal and the Fiero Store seal has more of a lip over where the glass seals.




In examining the A butt joint on both seals, I found them to be almost identical (top to bottom: Fiero Store seal, F82 seal, original Fiero T-top seal):




The part of the seal that goes in the channel, around the top opening appears identical. Some say that the F82 seal is taller, but that may be the result of comparing a new seal to one that is old and had been compressed. Of course, the F82 seals are much longer in that area, so they have to be sectioned.

The real difference in the seals is the B butt joint, where the Fiero seal has a big jog in it. Left to right below: Original Fiero T-top seal, F82 seal, Fisher T T-top seal



Gluing up seals requires both a strong glue and a very accurate cut. I tried the following glues:



I settled on the IC 2000 a Cyanoacrylate (CA) fast setting adhesive w/rubber designed for use in gluing up model car tires. After testing the glue joints to failure, the CA glues tended to maintain the joint with failure occurring by ripping the weatherstrip somewhere other than the glue joint. The other glues took longer to cure, but failed at the glue joint. The weatherstrips must be cut cleanly, at a 90 degree angle. I looked at several knives



The razor blade was the sharpest and cut the cleanest, but it was too small to span the entire weatherstrip. I ended up using the entire blade of a break off utility knife. I made a miter from some pieces of angle aluminum



Since the rubber dulls the knife pretty quickly, I used a blade for at most three cuts. In this manner I was able to get great, clean cuts. Starting at the A pillar, I cut off the bottom of the F82 seal and placed it on the car.



And now the cut down Fiero Store seal



I cut the weathstripping to be about ¼” longer than needed so the glue joint would always be in compression. The finished joint



The weatherstrip is hanging down a bit and is not yet glued in.

Now on to the top seal which I glued together in place, but with some wax paper so it did not get stuck to the car




The area around the top of the B pillar is problematic because of the jog in the original Fiero seal. I chose to cut the body and bend part of the sheet metal as shown



As cut



Filled with bondo



Resin and cloth to make sure it is water tight



Painted



Now looking at the preliminary fit. I took two pictures and overlaid them in Photoshop. The red outline is the F82 seal, as positioned in the newly cut area.


The blue outline represents the original seal. Since there is no screw on the F82 seal to hold and position it on the top of the B pillar, I added two brackets one made of angle aluminum and mounted to the screw hole for the original Fiero T-top seal, and one in a newly drilled hole on the top made out of brass stock, and slightly bent. I did not like the idea of drilling a new screw hole, but it will be sealed up.




Now the bottom of the B pillar. The following composite photograph shows the F82 seal (outlined in red) and the original Fiero seal, outlined in blue. If I used the bottom of the F82 seal, it would join a cut down Fiero seal (shown in yellow). The green painted area shows the area that would not be sealed if I used the bottom of the F82 seal.



So therefore, I chose to use the F82 seal cut just above the bottom of the glass and section in the FieroStore seal. The final joint looks like this



With the joint to the left of the top of the Pontiac symbol.

And now to look at the butt joints, as finished

A:

B:

The one thing that I noticed immediately is how pliable the new seals are compared to the old ones.

Old seals (two pieces) vs new one piece seal:



I have to do final adjustments, including readjusting the window glass, as it now binds on the new seals, and I have to glue them down. They were originally glued with weatherstrip adhesive along the backs of the seals and silicone at the top of the A and B pillars. I have chosen to use Butyl, as I will be able to pick up and move the seals without problem. Butyl seals well, but does remain sticky, though.

Wish me luck as I go on to gluing, final adjustment, and water test.
Jim
------------------
Jim

86 SE 355 Body Kit w/3.1 Auto (Sold)
87 T-Top Coupe 2.8/5 Speed new project

[This message has been edited by bowrapennocks (edited 02-03-2010).]

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balprix
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Report this Post10-14-2009 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for balprixClick Here to Email balprixEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does this mean that the camaro t-tops would fit with a little bit of work? I've been trying to find top shells and the like to convert a fiero to t-top with no avail.
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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post10-14-2009 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No, the Camaro T-tops will not fit. They are too large and can not be cut down. If you need T-tops for your Fiero, I believe that the only ones that fit are those as used in the Fiero.
Jim
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Report this Post10-15-2009 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I glued the weatherstrip in with Butyl and went to the car wash. The T-top seals did great; no leaks, but the Fiero Store seal leaked at the front bottom of the door. I will check it out tomorrow.
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Report this Post10-15-2009 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for smartaxelClick Here to visit smartaxel's HomePageClick Here to Email smartaxelSend a Private Message to smartaxelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Excellent thread! Thanks!!
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Report this Post10-16-2009 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You are my new best friend....Need to add this to my favorites.

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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post10-16-2009 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found the source of the leak at the front of the door...human error. I did not push the weatherseal over the sheet metal at the bottom. I guess I can pass judgment when I finish the other side, which I am working on now. Once finished, I will pull the carpet and seats out and give it the water test. With everything out, you can really see any water coming in. I suspect that many people who think their seals don't leak have not looked too hard. I had a Buick years ago that was garaged all of the time and remained dry on the inside. When I bought a new car, the Buick (with a 2.8L 4 speed stick of course) was moved to the outside. It sat parked the whole rainy Northwest winter. When I went to use it in the spring, the car had 2" of water on the front floor. In the end, the problem was a poor sealing of the heater duckwork. The water had always been leaking under the carpet, but I did not notice it when the car was garaged. In the end I got rid of the car because I could never get the moldy smell out. Mold is a real problem in the NW. Jonathon, I guess you do not have to worry about that in TX.

When comparing the old vs new seals it is clear how hard and squished the old seals had become. The new ones contact the glass very well. So well in fact, the drivers door glass will not go up all the way with the door closed. I will be adjusting the windows to final configuration when I get the passenger side done. When I am happy that there are no leaks, I will put in the sound deadener that I bought last year and buckle up the interior for good....that is till I do the next upgrade which is already in the planning process.
Jim
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Report this Post10-16-2009 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jsketchamClick Here to Email jsketchamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
great post, I will put this to good use this winter as the t-tops in my 86 gt need a revamp as well. it's amazing that mice would bother to eat weatherstripping but I guess they needed a home too.. They were Promptly evicted with prejudice. Anyways... Thanks for a great post.
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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post10-16-2009 08:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The mice left my weatherstripping alone, but they made themselves at home by the ECM and in the heater box. Thanks for the comments.
Jim
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Report this Post10-16-2009 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great write up. I don't have a T top car, but enjoyed your posting.
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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post10-18-2009 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yesterday I worked on the passenger side. I removed the old weatherstripping, cut the B pillar, and cleaned and painted everything. I will be installing the weatherstripping today and realized that I forget to talk about the fitment of the butt joints in my previous post. Proper alignment is critical and I chose to align them before applying any glue. I carefully moved the wearstripping until all the joints lined up. Then I took a felt tip pen and put some alignment marks all the way around so that when I applied the glue I did not have to move anything much. As mentioned earlier, I used Butyl because it remains flexible, so you can always pick up the weathestripping and move it around if need be.

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Report this Post12-08-2009 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I finished the seals and have been driving the car for a while...but it came to be time to do the final water leak test. I pulled the interior out including the rear speakers, so I could see where there were water leaks. As you may remember, I had not yet installed the sound insulation because I wanted to make the car leak free before completing the interior. By having the interior out, it is eay to spot the hidden water leaks. I set up a lawn sprinkler on the driveway, mounted on top of a step ladder. I got in the car in the garage, made sure everything was shut tight & dry, then drove next to the ladder. Sad story, water came in behind where the speakers mount..again. I pulled the car in the garage and removed the rear roof trim molding for the fourth time. As you may recall from a previous post, I thought the water was leaking from behind the seal at the top of the B pillar, and getting inside the roof. Well it was leaking somewhere else too! After carefully examining the Butyl caulking that I applied between the rear clip and the T-top frame, I could noy find a leak. I stood inside the car with the t-tops off and carefully examined every spot and then I found the leak! For some unkown reason, there was a small (3/32") hole drilled through the T-top frame dead center about 1/2" behind the center molding. This hole is under the rear trim piece and not visible when the trim is installed. It was probably covered with sealant when the t-tops were installed. I guess I uncovered when I cleaned and painted the frame. It is not easily visible from the side of the car. This is probably why I missed it the first two times I was checking for leaks. I filled the hole with epoxy, let it dry and tried the leak test again. There were a few minor leaks at the bottom of the door window glass; I addressed those by shimming behind the seal. Also, water was bubbling through the seal at the bottom of the door. I cut a drain hole in the seal and lots of water came out. So water is somehow getting inside the seal, perhaps where I spliced it. The butt joints looked pretty good. So now I am ready for the hopefully final leak test, BUT it is 18 degrees out and going down. This is the coldest it ever gets in western WA. Hopefully it will warm up next week and rain. The final test will be to leave the car outside in the rain for a week. Here in western WA it rains most of the time Dec-Mar.

Stay tuned!
Jim
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Report this Post12-08-2009 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fyrebird68Click Here to Email fyrebird68Send a Private Message to fyrebird68Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is good news. Encouraging. Shows what needs to be done to REALLY get the leaks stopped.

On to Act III ....


edit: '+' for you

[This message has been edited by fyrebird68 (edited 12-08-2009).]

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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post12-15-2009 08:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The weather has warmed up and turned to normal....RAIN, so on with the leak test. After soaking the car under the sprinkler I found that none of the T-top seals were leaking (the good news), but there were still other minor leaks to address, as follows:

Weatherseals at the door bottom: Water was seeping through and bubbling up. I realized they were full of water. I cut a few drain holes in the bottom. I looked at the factory door seals and realized the had drain holes and the ones from the Fiero store did not. PROBLEM SOLVED

Inside the passenger B pillar: After sealing the hole in the top, a small amount of water was seeping inside. After careful examination, I realized it was leaking between two of the sheet metal pieces of the spaceframe, where GM spot welded them togther and sealed them, but of course not good enough. I had exactly the same problem on my 1980 Buick Sport Sedan (special order 2.8 4sp) in the front passenger foot well. To fix the Fiero, I had to pull off the body panel; the blue tape is pointing to the leak:



Notice how clean and rust free the western WA/OR chassis is (67K miles on it now). I washed the frame thoroughly and calked it PROBLEM SOLVED

Minor leak around the back of the passenger door seal on the bottom. Water was getting around and underneath. I pulled the seal back and caulked it. PROBLEM SOLVED

I still have a few minor leaks at the door seal where it contacts the bottom of the door glass on the passenger side. I will address this hopefully last problem today. Once I pass the sprinkler test, the car is going to sit out in the rain for a week to assure no leaks.

What I have learned in all of this is that there are lots of little places where water leaks in the Fiero and that is perhaps why most Fieros that I have looked at in western WA are moldy smelling on the inside. Unless you take out the interiror, you can't see many of the minor leaks. Although my car is garaged, I want it to remain dry on the inside when I drive it in the rain.
Jim
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Report this Post12-19-2009 09:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did more testing and resolved a few minor leaks:

Passenger door, bottom of the glass in the front. I made a spacer to go behind the weatherstripping:



As installed and covered with black tape



There was a minor drip on the passenger door B butt joint, so I made a little bracket out of brass to push the seal out:



It also turns out that the air vent was leaking a little bit, so I grabbed one from Pull a Part (nice guys no charge)



and the back



This has a rubber flapper valve to let air out and not water in, and was dripping slightly. Now with the car back together, I put it outside in the Northwest rain. But of course the Gods have not been supporting me...no rain for a few days.

Stay tuned almost done.
Jim
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Report this Post01-23-2010 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IcelanderClick Here to Email IcelanderSend a Private Message to IcelanderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ok... it's been raining... Enquiring minds want to know.

------------------
Kendall (Icelander) Whitlatch
'85 Fiero 2M4 - 5spd Isuzu
'88 CJB - EcoTec - In progress
'67 LeMans/GTO clone 6.5 litre TH400 - For Sale
All the rest aren't Pontiacs, so what does it matter?

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Report this Post01-24-2010 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Kendall,
Well, real rain rather than a sprinkler has ways of finding a water path to the inside. I left the car outside and the butt joints dripped a little. However, there was a new leak in the center of the driver’s door T-top. Water was getting around the seal and dripping on the center console. I was completely frustrated and confused as to how the water was finding a path around a brand new, well compressed seal. I put the car in the garage and went inside ready to let the rain gods win. Later, I pulled the T-top off and had it sitting on the bench. I noticed that there was a fir tree needle stuck to the top laying crosswise where the seal met the glass. This little needle provided a perfect water channel. I cleaned the top, and with the needle gone, it looks like there are no leaks in that place anymore. I also found that the passenger side T-top glass seal was leaking through the middle of the seal and dripping out a hole. These seals are hollow and glued to the T-top and also screwed with two screws. The seals have metal plates inside at the end and pre-drilled holes for the screws. On the problem seal, the screw was in the wrong place and water was coming out the hole where the screw was supposed to be. I ended up re-caulking the back of the seal to solve this problem.

Since I want a zero leak car, I decided to adjust the windows and seals to eliminate the minor butt joint drips. The more I fiddled, the worse the drips got. The mechanical adjustments include two screws on the T-top itself to adjust height, door window height front & rear, and window tilt. You can also remove and reposition the seals, if needed. There are seemingly infinite possibilities with only a limited number of finite solutions that work.

I pulled the T-tops and carefully examined the seals. I noticed that the butt ends of the seals on the T-tops were somewhat deformed:



If you look at it carefully, you can see that this one is bowed out in the middle. It looks worse in real life than in the picture. I made the (expensive) command decision to buy a new set of T-top glass seals. Since there were only a few new sets left in the world, I did not want to let time pass and miss my opportunity. So I ordered a set and installed them. Here is one after cleaning the T-top, just before installation:



If you compare the old vs new side by side (not visible in the pictures), you will find that the old seals are all deformed at the butt ends. They are mostly bowed out. I put the tops with the new seals on the car and squirted at the passenger side butt joints full force with a garden hose. No leaks so far. The driver side had a leak, where water was getting around the back of the body seal. I pulled the top off and re-caulked the body seal. I will test it tomorrow.

One thing I did when I installed the body seals was to go lightly on the caulking and not caulk all of the areas. I took this approach because I was not sure if I had to remove the seals to re-section them. This was probably a mistake. I had a leak around the backside of the body seals (both sides) at the front of the doors, just below the top of the door. I had not caulked that area, because I could not get to it with the dash installed. As you may recall, I have a Camaro dash, which is a little wider than the Fiero dash. I ended up removing the dash to re-caulk the back of the seals. This cured the leak here.

Determining if you have a leak is much more difficult than you would think. First, you need to have all of the interior out, because a minor leak will soak into the upholstery and you will never see it. You need to have a completely dry interior so you can see water coming in. Remember, once you open the door, a lot of water drips into the car from the top, because there are no drip rails. So I have adopted the following approaches to leak test

(1) Put a sprinkler on a ladder in the driveway, and turn it on. Start with a completely dry car inside the garage and drive it under the water shower. Bring reading material, because it will take quite a while for minor leaks to present themselves. Remember to have a flashlight to clearly see where water is coming in. I had to explain to my neighbors why I was sprinkling my driveway in the middle of winter.
(2) Put a dry car outside when it is not raining and squirt it with a garden hose.
(3) Put a dry car outside when it is not raining and wait for the rain to come.

Just to give you and idea of how much water can come in from a minor leak. If your leak dripped one drip every 5 seconds for a day, based on an estimate of the size of a drop of water, you could accumulate 1-2 quarts of water in a 24 hour period. No wonder so many Fieros are musty smelling in western Washington. So getting to the zero leak status is important!

Kendall,
FYI there is a large supply of NOS T-top glass seals for CJB tops and they are much cheaper than the ones I bought. The CJB vs Non CJB t-top glass seals are different lengths and are not interchangeable. When you are ready to leak test your car, I would be more than willing to help. I do not think there are any body seals around though.

Jim


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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post01-28-2010 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Back outside for more tests. All seemed good except the driver's side B pillar would fill up with water. Upon inspection, I reaized that water was getting inside the roof above the left edge of the backlight. This leak seemed to be another body panel problem and appeared to be behind the rear clip. So today I pulled the rear clip off and here it is at the top of the blue arrow (you are looking at the driver's side B pillar rear of car to right).



The horizontal line is a crack in the sealer at a body panel joint. So I cleaned all the sealed joints and recaulked all of them with Butyl. Now time for a test (again).
Jim
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Report this Post02-01-2010 07:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I re-caulked every seam on the spaceframe that is under the shell, using Butyl. I put all the body panels back and put the car outside and let it sit in the rain for two days. It has not been much of a rain, but neverthless I supplemented with a sprinkler. This is supposed to be the rainy NW, where we get rain about 25-30 days in January.

I found a few minor issues that I am dealing with, but mostly I am in good shape. With the car parked on a side slope (right side lower). There was a tiny drip at the inside front bend of the drivers glass. The way the car was parked, the water tended to pool up on the right side of the driver top in the channel under the top. I think the water was getting in where I seamed the weathstrip because it was not perfectly aligned. I think that the water is running down the center of the top of the weatherstrip and through to the inside at the bend. The cross section is slighty cup shaped allowing the water to travel this way. I put some caulking to even out the seam (testing now in progress). I also had a slight leak on the passenger door seal, near the top. I will show you my solution after testing.

The most trouble that I have had after replacing both the body seals and the seals on the tops, has been with the new Fierostore seals. I think therr quality is not what they should be as they too flabby and at the bottom of the door, a little porous. I have had to shim behind them in several places to keep them from leaking. I can't return them, because I have cut them to integrate with the T-top seals.

The car is under the sprinkler now. We will see what happens.
Jim
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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post02-02-2010 02:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still fighting water leaks.......ugh
I am down to little ones now
Water is coming in through one of the shifter cables....from the engine compartment
A little drip inside drivers side B pillar....looks like the air vent thing is leaking, but removing the rear clip and recaulking the spaceframe stopped the leak up high inside the B pillar.

I think Fieros were not made for the rainy Northwest
Jim
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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post02-03-2010 01:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Finished and waterproof.

The driver's side B pillar was dripping through the vent. I ended up putting a sheet metal hood over both sides, eliminating that leak.

I caulked around the shift cables...leak fix.

DONE DONE DONE
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Report this Post02-03-2010 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fyrebird68Click Here to Email fyrebird68Send a Private Message to fyrebird68Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bowrapennocks:

Finished and waterproof.

The driver's side B pillar was dripping through the vent. I ended up putting a sheet metal hood over both sides, eliminating that leak.

I caulked around the shift cables...leak fix.

DONE DONE DONE



NO WAY .... You are one persistent sonofagun. '+' for you on your excellent research and this goes into my bookmarks for summertime fun....

edit: already '+'ed you, but here's a salute /salute/

[This message has been edited by fyrebird68 (edited 02-03-2010).]

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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post05-08-2010 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just an update. It has been three months and still water tight. I ended up buying another Fiero and had to put the t-top outside for a while. We had some pretty heavy rains (for the Northwest where it drizzles all the time) an still NO LEAKS!
Jim
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bowrapennocks
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Report this Post10-24-2010 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bowrapennocksEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still no leaks
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OH10fiero
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Report this Post10-24-2010 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OH10fieroClick Here to Email OH10fieroSend a Private Message to OH10fieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If there was ever a need to have a thread a sticky this would be it, either that or get it added to the "Cave". I have always avoided buying a T-Top because of leaks and no real way to stop them, but now I think I may add it to my list of cars I might just own someday because of you.
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Report this Post08-13-2011 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for elitoprClick Here to visit elitopr's HomePageSend a Private Message to elitoprEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
nice!!!!!!!!!!!!
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IXSLR8
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Report this Post08-14-2011 02:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IXSLR8Click Here to Email IXSLR8Send a Private Message to IXSLR8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i'm going to have to do this. My T-Tops leak. Thanks for your research and documentation.
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FieroCustom
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Report this Post10-21-2012 01:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroCustomClick Here to visit FieroCustom's HomePageClick Here to Email FieroCustomSend a Private Message to FieroCustomEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Query: Did the Camaro T-top seals have little plastic tabs for screws? I took some inspiration from you, bit the bullet and ordered some '92 Camaro seals and FieroStore door seals.

------------------
John
1955 Chevrolet 210 Sedan (Shopping list in progress)
1988 SE seized duke...next engine...1996 LQ1 found
~Future 1990 Fiero Clone?
1988 T-Top Coupe rocking 41 MPG!
1986 SE Project Mayhem
1999 F350 Crew Dually ~17mpg city 22 hwy
Wife's 2001 Saturn SL1 51MPG high score

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Pete Matos
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Report this Post12-27-2012 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Pete MatosSend a Private Message to Pete MatosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Since I want a zero leak car, I decided to adjust the windows and seals to eliminate the minor butt joint drips. The more I fiddled, the worse the drips got. The mechanical adjustments include two screws on the T-top itself to adjust height, door window height front & rear, and window tilt. You can also remove and reposition the seals, if needed. There are seemingly infinite possibilities with only a limited number of finite solutions that work.


Jim,
Hey man I just found this thread. Nice work on the tee top stuff. Honestly what caught my eye tho was your comments on the window adjustments. I DO NOT have a tee top car but my windows do not hit the original window seals properly and could use some adjustment if it is possible. Basically it looks like the windows are tilted out too far and they hit the top of the window gasket instead of the center and sometimes even ride up on the lip at the edge. Could you elaborate some more on the adjustments specifically the tilt one you spoke of? Thanks and peace

Pete

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Patrick
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Report this Post12-27-2012 04:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Pete Matos:

Jim... Could you elaborate some more on the adjustments specifically the tilt one you spoke of? Thanks and peace.


I'm afraid Jim won't be able to offer any further advice.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick in This thread:

More of the type of news I hate to pass on.

I'm on a local Fiero club mailing list, and among the emails I was reading tonight was this one...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Captain Fiero,

Please remove Jim from your e mail list. I am sorry to say, Jim died August 20.

Jim enjoyed his visits with you and I know he enjoyed your mailings. Thank you for being part of Jim’s happy car times.

Best regards,

Patrice (Jim’s wife)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The email is in reference to Jim Bowra, known as bowrapennocks here.

I met Jim several times at the annual Fiero picnic put on in Arlington Washington by Jet City Fieros.

I'm really disappointed to hear this. Jim was a very nice fella.

RIP
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Pete Matos
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Report this Post12-27-2012 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Pete MatosSend a Private Message to Pete MatosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Aw man I am so sorry, that is terrible. Honestly when I see that thread I just try to ignore it because I hate hearing about this kind of thing but this time apparently it bit me.. Thanks for informing me. Peace

Pete

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Lunatic
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Report this Post05-13-2014 05:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for LunaticClick Here to Email LunaticSend a Private Message to LunaticEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great write-up Bowrapennocks!

This will help out many people, including myself that have T-Top cars. Since I just installed a T-Top into my 84, I'm looking into seal options. It looks like your advice is the one I'll be using.
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fierogtx
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Report this Post07-25-2014 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtxClick Here to Email fierogtxSend a Private Message to fierogtxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
great info on this thread added to favorite
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Fiero Vice
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Report this Post06-22-2015 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero ViceSend a Private Message to Fiero ViceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:

If there was ever a need to have a thread a sticky this would be it, either that or get it added to the "Cave". I have always avoided buying a T-Top because of leaks and no real way to stop them, but now I think I may add it to my list of cars I might just own someday because of you.


OH10fiero, wonder if you ever come around to buy one with t-roof?

Sorry to hear about Jim's passing. Is he the one who started this tread? Excellent info! I was considering on buying a Fiero with T-roof, but was told to avoid cause of leaky issue. Did you guys finally solve this issue? I'd appreciate any feedbacks. Thanks.

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Report this Post02-17-2016 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for elitoprClick Here to visit elitopr's HomePageSend a Private Message to elitoprEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any update from others???
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hcforde
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Report this Post05-27-2017 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To keep this out of the archives....

I just bought some like new seals from a 1998 Firebird T-tops. Salvage yard only charged me $12 + tax. The project work won't start for a while because I am going to fully restore this after I move in a couple of months. Restoring the T-top will start this winter stripping all the way down and putting the chassis on a rotisserie.
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Report this Post02-12-2020 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CokeologistSend a Private Message to CokeologistEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bringing this one back to the top. I am needing to replace my Fiero t-top seals and could use any tips that anyone can provide. I see both Mustang and Firebird/Camaro seals mentioned in this thread; curious as to whether there is a consensus view as to which is the better kit to use. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
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