This is an EXCELLENT thread. There are a couple other good threads as well. I have read and re-read them many times. I'm certainly not trying to knock any of them, but I do feel like a more complete parts/advice document is in order. Something that can be printed out for parts sourcing, if nothing else.
I spent the last couple hours putting together the following document regarding this brake upgrade. There are still several question marks that I would like to fill in, so if anyone can supply the answers, that would be great. I'd especially like to hear from some of you who have performed this upgrade. Especially if I've got anything wrong here. I'd like to update this document and have it available for people wanting to undertake this project. (Even though its not car radio related, I may even find a place to 'hide' it on my website: www.ReplacementRadios.com )
I think this particular thread is the best 'build' thread I've seen, so I don't plan to go into the step by step build process but, rather, provide a more complete parts list, some brief highlights (and possible hang-ups), as well as some links to this thread and other sites of relative interest.
I've got this saved as a Word document if anyone wants it. (Yep. I can be pretty anal sometimes.) Here goes...
**************************Start of document***************************
First, keep in mind that I have not yet performed this swap, so I can't speak for the performance or safety results. In other words, just like me, you should be performing this upgrade at your own risk. This document is just a compilation of information found in various places regarding this project.
Estimated total cost = @ $800, assuming mostly new or rebuilt parts (Detailed below.)
Parts list:
New 1988-96 Corvette 12” rotors (front for front, rear for rear) Try eBay for variety. New Fiero Store stainless steel brake lines New 1967-80 Corvette master cylinder (Try Rock Auto for good prices.) Qty 4: New 10mm x 1 banjo bolts (Most auto stores.) 1984–87 Corvette front calipers (O’Reilly's reman #s: 18-4183 & 18-4184) 1984–87 Corvette front brackets (GM discontinued. Part#? Try Arts Corvette for used.) *1988–96 Corvette rear calipers for e-brake*. (O’Reilly's reman #s 18-4323 & 18-4324) *1988–96 Corvette rear brackets (GM# 10112652. EYE12652 at Arts) for 88-96 caliper Alternative for rear: 1984–87 Corvette rear calipers for no e-brake (Part #s ??) Alternative for rear: 1984–87 Corvette rear brackets for 84-87 caliper (Part #s ??) Adapters & concentric rings. See bubbajoe’s site for specs or Cheetah’s site to order. Qty 10: Long wheel stud. Front (Rear optional) Dorman 610-323. Advance Auto 98501 Qty 8: 12M 1.75 x 30mm hex head cap screws for front. (Hardware/fastener store) Qty 8: 12M 1.75 x 20mm hex head cap screws for rear. (Hardware/fastener store) New brake tubing (diameter or length ??) Hubs (Original 84-87 Fiero rotors with the ‘disc’ portion ‘turned’ off.) New brake pads of your choice for the calipers you selected.
‘Special’ Tools needed:
tubing bender flare tool 12M 1.75 tap grinder hex bit/socket for caliper pins (size?) A 'real' jack jackstands
‘Special’ Instructions/Notes:
Rear spindles will need drilled and tapped to 12M 1.75 (Front already 12M 1.75?) Grind off small ‘ear’ on front edge of rear spindles. Have Corvette rotors drilled for 5x100 bolt pattern Custom bend and flare brake lines. (Re-use existing fittings.) Make custom e-brake 'loop' if you use 88-96 rear calipers and want e-brake. It’s probably a good idea to replace bearings and seals while you have everything apart. High-temp paint recommended for calipers. (Tape off pistons first.) Minimum wheel size is 16". (Although some 16s may have clearance problems.) May not be compatible w/ custom tubular control arms. For 1984 to 1987 Fieros only. (Base, SE or GT.)
Have already tried but no harm in trying again. Does any one have or able to get the front and rear caliper brackets Arts Corvette doesnt stock them any more. This is all that I need to get started on my swap Thanks Carl.
What I did to get all of the parts fairly cheap was to join a corvette forum and just post in their for sale section. Within 2 weeks I had all the parts I needed. All of them were used, but I got lucky and found everything with under 30,000 miles on it. I would try there. Just do a google search. You can also get the brackets you're looking for quite a bit cheaper. Front (84-87) and rear calipers (88-96) with brackets I don't think I payed over $150. Worth a shot.
Matt
[This message has been edited by fiero go fast (edited 02-24-2006).]
I began installing this brake upgrade and ran in to a problem with the front brakes. I had the brake adapters machined to bubbajoes exact specs. While test fitting the adapters and calipers I found that the banjo bolt on the caliper hits the lower part of the shock before the steering rack hits the end of its travel... Did anyone else complain of having this problem? The steering radius of the Fiero already sucks as it is. I don't want to sacrifice any more.
------------------- Nevermind.... fatigue is affecting my brain function. The clearance is perfect with a compressed suspension! Reminder though.... make sure your wheel is straight when you jack up the car....
[This message has been edited by 87GTBro (edited 02-26-2006).]
I began installing this brake upgrade and ran in to a problem with the front brakes. I had the brake adapters machined to bubbajoes exact specs. While test fitting the adapters and calipers I found that the banjo bolt on the caliper hits the lower part of the shock before the steering rack hits the end of its travel... Did anyone else complain of having this problem? The steering radius of the Fiero already sucks as it is. I don't want to sacrifice any more.
This is just a guess, but it sounds like you have the calipers on the wrong sides (left on right, right on left). The banjo bolts should be at the top of the caliper not at the bottom. Hope this helps.. Steve
The part is not symetrical, so I cannot assume a center line that is not properly noted as center line is correct. The line is not dashed, does not extend through to the other sde, and is not noted CL. Just making sure I am not paying to have junk made. Cautious Stainless is not cheap.
[This message has been edited by HellYes (edited 03-04-2006).]
I think the part is symetrical, the only thing that is not is the location of the holes... I agree it would be nice if the centerline had been chain dotted... but from every other outer dimension on it... it looks symmetrical to me... have you tried emailing/pm-ing cheetah to ask him... since he had some of these made... (I'm assuming from the same drawing)
(also I must apologize, I just now read that someone else's post having given the measurements the same....sorry to have duplicated..)
here is a bump up for you to get a more satisfactorial answer.
I am closing in on doing my brakes, & noticed that the "hat" on two of the rotors are taller than the others.
Which are the front ones?
The front rotors we used were 'rough' on both the angled and straight surfaces of the 'hat'. On the rear, the angled surface was rough, and the area that stuck outward from that was machined. Not sure if that helps any?
This is an EXCELLENT thread. There are a couple other good threads as well. I have read and re-read them many times. I'm certainly not trying to knock any of them, but I do feel like a more complete parts/advice document is in order. Something that can be printed out for parts sourcing, if nothing else.
I spent the last couple hours putting together the following document regarding this brake upgrade. There are still several question marks that I would like to fill in, so if anyone can supply the answers, that would be great. I'd especially like to hear from some of you who have performed this upgrade. Especially if I've got anything wrong here. I'd like to update this document and have it available for people wanting to undertake this project. (Even though its not car radio related, I may even find a place to 'hide' it on my website: www.ReplacementRadios.com )
I think this particular thread is the best 'build' thread I've seen, so I don't plan to go into the step by step build process but, rather, provide a more complete parts list, some brief highlights (and possible hang-ups), as well as some links to this thread and other sites of relative interest.
I've got this saved as a Word document if anyone wants it. (Yep. I can be pretty anal sometimes.) Here goes...
**************************Start of document***************************
First, keep in mind that I have not yet performed this swap, so I can't speak for the performance or safety results. In other words, just like me, you should be performing this upgrade at your own risk. This document is just a compilation of information found in various places regarding this project.
Estimated total cost = @ $800, assuming mostly new or rebuilt parts (Detailed below.)
Parts list:
New 1988-96 Corvette 12” rotors (front for front, rear for rear) Try eBay for variety. New Fiero Store stainless steel brake lines New 1967-80 Corvette master cylinder (Try Rock Auto for good prices.) Qty 4: New 10mm x 1 banjo bolts (Most auto stores.) 1984–87 Corvette front calipers (O’Reilly's reman #s: 18-4183 & 18-4184) 1984–87 Corvette front brackets (GM discontinued. Part#? Try Arts Corvette for used.) *1988–96 Corvette rear calipers for e-brake*. (O’Reilly's reman #s 18-4323 & 18-4324) *1988–96 Corvette rear brackets (GM# 10112652. EYE12652 at Arts) for 88-96 caliper Alternative for rear: 1984–87 Corvette rear calipers for no e-brake (Part #s ??) Alternative for rear: 1984–87 Corvette rear brackets for 84-87 caliper (Part #s ??) Adapters & concentric rings. See bubbajoe’s site for specs or Cheetah’s site to order. Qty 10: Long wheel stud. Front (Rear optional) Dorman 610-323. Advance Auto 98501 Qty 8: 12M 1.75 x 30mm hex head cap screws for front. (Hardware/fastener store) Qty 8: 12M 1.75 x 20mm hex head cap screws for rear. (Hardware/fastener store) New brake tubing (diameter or length ??) Hubs (Original 84-87 Fiero rotors with the ‘disc’ portion ‘turned’ off.) New brake pads of your choice for the calipers you selected.
‘Special’ Tools needed:
tubing bender flare tool 12M 1.75 tap grinder hex bit/socket for caliper pins (size?) A 'real' jack jackstands
‘Special’ Instructions/Notes:
Rear spindles will need drilled and tapped to 12M 1.75 (Front already 12M 1.75?) Grind off small ‘ear’ on front edge of rear spindles. Have Corvette rotors drilled for 5x100 bolt pattern Custom bend and flare brake lines. (Re-use existing fittings.) Make custom e-brake 'loop' if you use 88-96 rear calipers and want e-brake. It’s probably a good idea to replace bearings and seals while you have everything apart. High-temp paint recommended for calipers. (Tape off pistons first.) Minimum wheel size is 16". (Although some 16s may have clearance problems.) May not be compatible w/ custom tubular control arms. For 1984 to 1987 Fieros only. (Base, SE or GT.)
Well I've almost fully finished completeing the swap, all I need to do is hook up the lines to the new master cylinder, bleed the brakes and figure out to connect the outersleeve of the ebrake cable to something. I understand how I should connect the core of the cable to the ebrake arm on the caliper, but what should I connect the actual ebrake outer sleeve to?
I have a question regarding the front hub/rotor/rim fit which the photos on page one don't answer for me...
After machining off the friction surface of an old front rotor and installing the 'Vette rotor over top, does enough of the hub protrude through the rotor to center the rim properly, or does this conversion rely upon the assumption that lug nut-to-rim fit will center the rim as the nuts are tightened?
OK, I mostly completed this brake swap several months ago and have been very happy with the results. I still had not connected the e-brake cable until a few days ago.
Can someone post better pics of the e-brake cable setup? The problem with the pic in this thread is, the cable sheath does not appear to be fastened to anything. In that case when you engage the e-brake, the cable will just lift up from the lower A-arm instead of pulling down on the e-brake lever on the caliper. Am I making sense?
Can someone with a working e-brake setup snap some pics for me so I can have an idea what to do?
Thanks!
[This message has been edited by 87GTBro (edited 11-01-2006).]
I have a question regarding the front hub/rotor/rim fit which the photos on page one don't answer for me...
After machining off the friction surface of an old front rotor and installing the 'Vette rotor over top, does enough of the hub protrude through the rotor to center the rim properly, or does this conversion rely upon the assumption that lug nut-to-rim fit will center the rim as the nuts are tightened?
The lug bolts still retain the original location and pattern. The rim will center just as it did on the original hub. You will be installing longer lug bolts on the front to account for the thickness of the added rotor.
The concentric rings are designed to center the rotor, not the rim.
Oh, BTW, If anyone would like AutoCAD drawings of the adapters needed for this upgrade, drop me a line at dcampbell@rgv.rr.com
All you have to do is take the drawings to any machine shop with the right tools and they can run the parts for you. These are the same drawings I used on my swap and the adapters worked perfectly.
[This message has been edited by 87GTBro (edited 11-01-2006).]
The lug bolts still retain the original location and pattern. The rim will center just as it did on the original hub. You will be installing longer lug bolts on the front to account for the thickness of the added rotor.
The concentric rings are designed to center the rotor, not the rim.
Thanks, but that's not what I was asking.
On an original hub, the rim is not centered by the lug bolts; it is centered by the fit of the rim's center bore over the area of the hub which protrudes past the rotor hat.
What I would like to know is how much of that protruding area is left, if any, after modifying the fronts. i.e. are the front wheels still hub-centric after all is said & done, or does the work also change them to lug-centric?
On an original hub, the rim is not centered by the lug bolts; it is centered by the fit of the rim's center bore over the area of the hub which protrudes past the rotor hat.
What I would like to know is how much of that protruding area is left, if any, after modifying the fronts. i.e. are the front wheels still hub-centric after all is said & done, or does the work also change them to lug-centric?
The rims do not even touch the 1/8" protrusion or hat (dust cover) that covers the castle nut on the front hubs. If you have ever noticed the tapered edge on a lug nut, that taper is designed to center each hole in the rim over the lug bolt. This is what centers the rim on the hub. If the rim was indeed centered by that lip on the hub, it would be necessary that all rims be manufactured with identical center bore diameters. This just isn't the case.
The answwer to your original question though is:
No, this swap has no affect on the centering of the rims on any of the four wheels. Because the lug bolts are all still in the stock location, the rims still stay centered on the hubs.
[This message has been edited by 87GTBro (edited 11-02-2006).]
just a little bump and a question, how much different are 97+ ls1 camaro brakes than these? The fbodys should be the same as the same year corvette correct? Thanks, Drew
------------------ 1985 GT Fastback Low Original Miles at 41,506!!! 01 Cavalier Z24 16" wheels KYB shocks KYB struts with coilovers-coming soon
Is there anyone still making the rings for 84-87 fiero's? it doesn't appear that cheetah is making them anymore. The brackets I could probably manage myself on a band saw, but the rings could cause me some problems.
I can make rings if you are interested, I actually have 2 I just made for my 97+ fbody 12" swap, but I made mine a little wider. Its .330 thick instead of .27 or whatever. Let me know, Drew
)
