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Another V-6 thread by goofy8893
Started on: 07-30-2014 03:30 PM
Replies: 26 (392 views)
Last post by: NW-Fiero on 08-18-2014 01:19 AM
goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am looking to give my 86 2.8 4 speed SE a refresh and a little more pep. What I am wondering is I have heard that the older 3.1 with cast Iron head, will fit right in and use the fiero intake is this true?. I live in Cali so I want to make it looking as stock as possible for smog. Should I do a motor swap or just rebuild my 2.8? I heard with the right build you can get quite a bit more power out of the 2.8. I also do not like this only 4 close rage gears and I want to improve fuel mileage if I can. Should I go through the hassle of a 6 speed setup or should I just swap in a 5 speed? What are your thoughts and opinions? I have seen the threads about the 3.9 but that is way more work then I would like to put in to it at this time as I have no where to really do a full out mod. Maybe down the road.
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Report this Post07-30-2014 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The early 90's 3.4 with cast iron heads will fit also, with the Fiero intake, etc. Port the exhaust, get a later (7730) ECM, and you'll have a good start to more go power.
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Report this Post07-30-2014 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
3.4 from 93-95 camaro.
Don't waste your time with the 3.1.
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goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok what about building the 2.8 is there any more power that I could get from it? Like porting polishing and blueprinting?

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One day I will bring my classic Pontiacs back to their glory.

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zzzhuh
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Report this Post07-30-2014 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can promise you one thing. The 3.1 and 3.4 aren't going to help you out with gas mileage. You can get more out of a 2.8, but by the time you spend the money you can have a 3.4 swapped in. But if you want absolutely amazing power and improved gas mileage go with the 3.8SC. California smog regulations are absolutely ridiculous, but I've seen plenty of people claim that they can make a 3.8 pass the smog.
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NW-Fiero
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Report this Post07-30-2014 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NW-FieroSend a Private Message to NW-FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are we working within a budget??

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Mark
' 85 2m6 3.4PR
In the Great Northwest!

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goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
zzzhuh I know they are outrageous. I was only wondering about the 2.8 option because I can get a full rebuild kit with everything for about 400
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goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

goofy8893

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I am on a bit of a budget as of right now. My main problem is it's a DD right now and My trans am is in the garage so I have no place to do it but the driveway.
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lou_dias
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Report this Post07-30-2014 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It depends what you're looking for.
With some simple mods, you can probably get 15-20 more hp out of a 2.8 without changing the cam.
A Fiero 2.8 *new* dynos around 115 rwhp.
Forum member 1fst2m6 has dyno'd his 2.8 with 154 rwhp with some mods. Do a search in the archives for a list...

With a cam and intake change, member La Fiera (might have spelled that wrong) and CNC ported heads, he achieved a nice 172 rwhp...but his mods are probably not in your budget.
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goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lou I have about 5K I can play with my thing is my city does not like cars on jackstands in the driveway
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NW-Fiero
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Report this Post07-30-2014 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NW-FieroSend a Private Message to NW-FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by goofy8893:

zzzhuh I know they are outrageous. I was only wondering about the 2.8 option because I can get a full rebuild kit with everything for about 400



Wow and that includes machining costs??

pistons, rings, bearing, valve job, gaskets.

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Mark
' 85 2m6 3.4PR
In the Great Northwest!

[This message has been edited by NW-Fiero (edited 07-30-2014).]

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goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
NW No but I have a friend at a machine shop does good work and cheap we just supply parts. My one buddy has been using him for pontiac motors for yrs and has only had one block come back needing to be twiked. He does about 5 motors a yr for my buddy.
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NW-Fiero
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Report this Post07-30-2014 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NW-FieroSend a Private Message to NW-FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With 2-3K you can upgrade the block, 3.4pr min. pistons, rings, cam, bearings, injectors, mounts ...all with no mods to the engine but the starter relocation. Or go to the 3.8 - 4+

As for the jack stands. Once the engine is out and off the cradle. put the cradle back in with tires on. 1 days work.

------------------
Mark
' 85 2m6 3.4PR
In the Great Northwest!

[This message has been edited by NW-Fiero (edited 07-30-2014).]

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dobey
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Report this Post07-30-2014 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

I can promise you one thing. The 3.1 and 3.4 aren't going to help you out with gas mileage. You can get more out of a 2.8, but by the time you spend the money you can have a 3.4 swapped in. But if you want absolutely amazing power and improved gas mileage go with the 3.8SC. California smog regulations are absolutely ridiculous, but I've seen plenty of people claim that they can make a 3.8 pass the smog.


Fuel economy is not going to be significatlly different between the 3 engines. They're all going to get roughly the same MPG in a Fiero, as the original 2.8 would have been getting; maybe even better if the 2.8 was on the way out, and the 3.1 or 3.4 are newly rebuilt. The 3800 gets better mileage than all of them. Heck, the LS3/F40 swap gets the same MPG as the 2.8, and it's 6.2 liters.

The 3800 is easy to pass smog, as long as you leave it connected to the auto trans. And if I understand correctly, getting a 3800 with manual trans to pass the check in California is just a matter of time and money, to deal with all the bureaucracy of getting CARB to acknowledge it properly.
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goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
just my taste I would prefer to keep it as original looking as possible. The 2.8 is working fine but I have a nasty leak in my front main seal and there is no point for me to tear into that without doing a complete refresh.
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NW-Fiero
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Report this Post07-30-2014 05:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NW-FieroSend a Private Message to NW-FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well you started the thread with:

I am looking to give my 86 2.8 4 speed SE a refresh and a little more pep. What I am wondering is I have heard that the older 3.1 with cast Iron head, will fit right in and use the fiero intake is this true?. I live in Cali so I want to make it looking as stock as possible for smog. Should I do a motor swap or just rebuild my 2.8? I heard with the right build you can get quite a bit more power out of the 2.8. I also do not like this only 4 close rage gears and I want to improve fuel mileage if I can. Should I go through the hassle of a 6 speed setup or should I just swap in a 5 speed? What are your thoughts and opinions? I have seen the threads about the 3.9 but that is way more work then I would like to put in to it at this time as I have no where to really do a full out mod. Maybe down the road."

Based on your current comments:

just my taste I would prefer to keep it as original looking as possible. The 2.8 is working fine.."

Pull engine, repair leak, replace water pump, upgrade alternator, pull exhaust manifolds, clean out excess flashing, same to y-pipe connection, put in 5 speed, replace trans cables. call it good.
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goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks NW I think I might do that I just didn't want to tear into it to leave it with almost 180 miles so I was wondering what you guys all that to do
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I FAR I
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Report this Post07-30-2014 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for I FAR ISend a Private Message to I FAR IEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sheeeeee-it....If you have $5k to spend, just peel off 1/3 of that and get my Vortech supercharger kit.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/069522.html
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goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 06:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very very tempting I don't think that will fly at the smog station though
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I FAR I
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Report this Post07-30-2014 09:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for I FAR ISend a Private Message to I FAR IEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh yea, I see you live in Californiaztstan.
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goofy8893
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Report this Post07-30-2014 09:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's pronounced commifornia lol
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Report this Post07-30-2014 09:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by goofy8893:

Very very tempting I don't think that will fly at the smog station though


It will be fine as long as it's 50 state or CARB listed. But if it's a Canadian destination product, it might not even be legal for road use in the rest of the US, as Canada's laws are also different from US Federal regulations.

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zzzhuh
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Report this Post07-30-2014 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im in the same boat and I think I've got it figured out, as far as what I want to do.

First off, if I had 5 grand to spend I'd have a 3800SC swapped. But since you like the stock look I would find a nice 3.4PR (93'-95' camero/firebird) engine and rebuild it. Port it,polish it, upgrade the cam, bigger piston's, basically the whole 9 yards. You'll be VERY impressed by the HP output and you'll have about an extra $3500 to spend on a pain job, suspension and other goodies.

I love the stock look but, I swear someone was selling after market plenums that looks like the fiero's but was bigger, and allowed better air flow. Anyone able to point me in the right direction? I think they shipped it as a chrome finish but im not positive. I thought it was TLG or the fiero store but couldn't find it.

None the less, a 3.4 is a great upgrade and is fun to have people go "Woah that's stock" as they see you fly by at 200mph
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masospaghetti
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Report this Post07-31-2014 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You're probably referring to the "DAWG" intake.

Given that you have an early build 2.8, it would probably be wise to get a 3.4 block since they are considerably more durable. Someone else can elaborate better than I can but the early 2.8s have bad bearing lubrication. The 3.4 will look completely stock and will be a complete bolt-in affair, other than the starter which requires a drill jig (supplied by Rodney).

I don't know what your level of proficiency is, but in my opinion, a 3.4 swap would be considerably easier than a 3800SC. For someone with parts fab and wiring experience, making new mounts, wiring in a 7730 or OBD2 computer, and figuring out the air conditioning and coolant plumbing is not a big deal. These issues can be a big deal for someone who just has "normal" mechanic experience.

My LX9 3500 swap was my first engine swap. This is considered by many as relatively easy, some even said a "weekend swap". It took me 6 months to get it running and i'm still tuning the new computer. YMMV.
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goofy8893
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Report this Post08-02-2014 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So I would need the 3.4, the ECM and what else? I have never done a swap.
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goofy8893
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Report this Post08-17-2014 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goofy8893Send a Private Message to goofy8893Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is there anything else I would need to do this swap?
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NW-Fiero
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Report this Post08-18-2014 01:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NW-FieroSend a Private Message to NW-FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are several good write-ups on the subject.. I would start there.
.
http://fiero34swap.eleventenths.org/
.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122475.html
.


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Mark
' 85 2m6 3.4PR
In the Great Northwest!

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