I had a friend tell me if I did this: "followed by a ECM tune: stamped 1.6 rockers, 272-2 cam, headers, ported heads. You might peak 200hp."

Would some of you who know more than I do tell me if this is correct or not?

thanks

quote Originally posted by jumper: I had a friend tell me if I did this: "followed by a ECM tune: stamped 1.6 rockers, 272-2 cam, headers, ported heads. You might peak 200hp." Would some of you who know more than I do tell me if this is correct or not? thanks

you...*might*... if you did some porting and stuff with it too, and opened up the exhaust manifolds a bit.
probably closer to 180 tbh tho.

[This message has been edited by hookdonspeed (edited 06-21-2014).]

quote you...*might*... if you did some porting and stuff with it too, and opened up the exhaust manifolds a bit. probably closer to 180 tbh tho.

Thank you. I'm new at this. I had a Fiero many years ago and loved it. I'm looking to buy one soon,
but I'm gathering as much information as possible before I do. I am not technical and if I did a swap,
I would have to pay someone to do it. just trying to get the best bang for the buck.

Can you explain a little how you open up the exhaust? Also, I could live with 180 hp <g>

[This message has been edited by jumper (edited 06-21-2014).]

Stickers. I found that the Magna Flo stickers are the best. Also a Comp Cams sticker positioned on the back window near the defroster connection is the best.

quote Originally posted by jumper: Thank you. I'm new at this. I had a Fiero many years ago and loved it. I'm looking to buy one soon, but I'm gathering as much information as possible before I do. I am not technical and if I did a swap, I would have to pay someone to do it. just trying to get the best bang for the buck. Can you explain a little how you open up the exhaust? Also, I could live with 180 hp <g>

do a search, the stock manifolds had some casting issues that choaked them a bit...
also start searhing for 3.4 or 3400 or 3800 swaps if you have the ability....

I'll have to look up the stickers part, but thanks for the info...

And yea, I would rather have a 3800 in it. But I assumed that would be more expensive than trying to modify the 2.8... Which one is actually cheaper?

thanks

quote Originally posted by jumper: I'll have to look up the stickers part, but thanks for the info... And yea, I would rather have a 3800 in it. But I assumed that would be more expensive than trying to modify the 2.8... Which one is actually cheaper? thanks

moding the 2.8 is cheaper.... but a 3800NA is 200hp outa the box... would depend what you can do yourself for the cost of the swap.
engine 500-1000?
harness = $3-400ish
exhaust = $???
fuel system = $250ish?
mounts = depends if you can make your own...
possibly added cost depending on manual or auto.

quote moding the 2.8 is cheaper.... but a 3800NA is 200hp outa the box... would depend what you can do yourself for the cost of the swap. engine 500-1000? harness = $3-400ish exhaust = $??? fuel system = $250ish? mounts = depends if you can make your own... possibly added cost depending on manual or auto.

Although I would love to have the 3800, because of the cost, I will probably stick with the 2.8. Maybe down the road I could do the 3800 swap.
I really appreciate everyone's input. It's really helping me out!

I was told the power was in the head ,,did not beleave it,, until I had heads ported, port match ,roller rockers,spark plug alignment ,stock cam & I ran easy 14.5 in the quarter mile with a
2.8, 4 speed in a fiero , lotus rebody

The stock 2.8 has plenty of power for normal driving. But for abnormal conditions ranging from a traffic situation to raging testosterone, or a search for sheer acceleration joy, it's not enough. I'm a big believer in nitrous, set up as follows:

100HP maximum shot for an engine this small.
WET system (sprays gas and gas, so no destructive lean condition).
WINDOW SWITCH, enabling spray between 2500 and 5500 rpm.
WOT switch, turning on the nitrous only at some preset (100%?) throttle setting.
...and...
A remote bottle opener, so when the master switch is turned ON, the bottle opens and when the rpm passes 2500 *and* throttle is open, nitrous+fuel spray.

In the Fiero, the bottle should be installed below a false bottom in the "trunk", with lines and wiring concealed by carpet. The remote bottle opener is mandatory. It's trivial to punch the wall between trunk and engine compartment, and the nitrous line can be run very stealthily around the air filter assembly to the nozzle. That nozzle goes on the forward side of the intake duct (hidden). If you have a choice, pick black stainless lines and black sheathing of the wiring.

A new WET system might be about $400=450 *PLUS* the remote bottle opener. But Craigslist is your friend, and I bought my latest system for $450 including all the goodies.

Hopefully my car will be finished, with nitrous installed, in time for the San Diego Fiero meetup on August 23.

quote Originally posted by ranger stone: I was told the power was in the head ,,did not beleave it,, until I had heads ported, port match ,roller rockers,spark plug alignment ,stock cam & I ran easy 14.5 in the quarter mile with a 2.8, 4 speed in a fiero , lotus rebody

That sounds great Ranger. Sounds like you really have that 2.8 moving! Maybe you could post a pic. I would love to see it.

Just my opinion - save your money - do not waste it on the 2.8. No matter what you do to it to pump it up, it will not take it for very long. The engine was never intended to be a "race motor". Even with all the porting, cam, rockers, etc. etc., the intake plain sucks. You have to get air into the motor before you can worry about getting it out..

quote Originally posted by katatak: Just my opinion - save your money - do not waste it on the 2.8.

+1 on this 4 sure

quote Originally posted by jumper: Instead of looking for a 2 or 3 thousand dollar Fiero, maybe I should look for one with a blown engine and get it for cheap. Then put a screamer in it.

just the opposite. Look in The Mall here for a car that has already been swapped. Guys here sell fully and project swapped cars all the time. That cheap craig's list fiero will be the most expensive car you ever owned by the time you get done with it

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 06-22-2014).]

I agree with both of you. I don't want a 2.8 that will be short lived. I would leave it stock before I make a move to do a swap.

I'll check the mall here and I always look on Craigslist.

[This message has been edited by jumper (edited 06-22-2014).]

quote Originally posted by ranger stone: ...

FYI, banned member!

Thanks for the heads up Tony!

It will be less expensive in the long run to buy someone else's swapped car that has the features you want.
Do your homework, check the seller out on the Forum if there is a build thread or has posted about problems with the car.
Maybe more dollars up front, but less money overall and you don't have to wait to drive it.

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: It will be less expensive in the long run to buy someone else's swapped car that has the features you want. Do your homework, check the seller out on the Forum if there is a build thread or has posted about problems with the car. Maybe more dollars up front, but less money overall and you don't have to wait to drive it.

Good advice. I would rather buy one already built with a good engine. Certainly if it's cheaper in the long run.
I was just getting ready to look at the mall and see what's in there. Appreciate the help.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: Stickers. I found that the Magna Flo stickers are the best.

Thanks,.. Now I know what stickers that were talked about

Nice job!

LOL. 200hp from this 2.8? I have real numbers on a stroked 2.8l to 3.1l. 1.6 roller rockers, dynamicly balanced, performance(ish) Comp Can 260H, ported (oem) exhaust, 17lb injectors with adjustable fuel pressure regulator = 150HP and 180 Ft Lbs Torque. This is at the wheels - add 17% at the crank if you want the number to sound more impressive, but be completely useless. This was a dyno tune to moderate O2 numbers for endurance racing. Could probably get to 160hp for shorter racing like traditional 20 min SCCA/NASA races. 160 at the wheels would be about 190 at the crank.

[This message has been edited by plane (edited 06-22-2014).]

quote Originally posted by plane: LOL. 200hp from this 2.8? I have real numbers on a stroked 2.8l to 3.1l. 1.6 roller rockers, dynamicly balanced, performance(ish) Comp Can 260H, ported (oem) exhaust, 17lb injectors with adjustable fuel pressure regulator = 150HP and 180 Ft Lbs Torque. This is at the wheels - add 17% at the crank if you want the number to sound more impressive, but be completely useless. This was a dyno tune to moderate O2 numbers for endurance racing. Could probably get to 160hp for shorter racing like traditional 20 min SCCA/NASA races. 160 at the wheels would be about 190 at the crank.

Wow! That really sounds great! Looks like you got a real winner there. If you have a pic I would love to see the engine. And yea, most people have already killed the 200hp thing. I need to go in the direction that you did or maybe a 3800. But I like the sound of how you did it. thanks for the info. This really gives me something to smile about

Don't know how to do images. But is a LeMons Race car so really ugly and very dirty. Right now it is pretty banged up after a crash this weekend.

Ask yourself this question......Does it make more sense to have a 2.8 (with inherent oiling problems) living on the edge, or a drivetrain that is designed for a heavier vehicle that produces that power comfortably.
If you are running an auto, its a no-brainer just due to modern four speed automatics.....

quote Originally posted by plane: Don't know how to do images. But is a LeMons Race car so really ugly and very dirty. Right now it is pretty banged up after a crash this weekend.

Sorry to hear about your crash!!! Bummer. And that's ok about being ugly. I would want the engine right before I did cosmetics.

If it helps the "living on the edge" issue, if I understand it. The engine has survived 8 lemons races including 120 degrees for 2 days last year. We did put in the higher capacity oil pump. A NASCAR bottle/swirl pot on the cooling system means that we have a hard time getting over 200 degrees except in 100+ heat and then 210 is the highest we see racing. Clutch needs to be and expensive stage 3 and 9 3/4" or it will slip (learned that the hard way). Transmission did blow this weekend (lost 4th and a lot of leaks), but think that is related to damage we missed after getting hit hard in rear wheels at the last race - it had about 12 races on it.

We abuse the heck out everything and are delighted with the power and that everything is "stock" (ECM, coils, distributor, timing etc....).

quote Originally posted by plane: Don't know how to do images.

Use PIP here.

quote Originally posted by plane: If it helps the "living on the edge" issue, if I understand it. The engine has survived 8 lemons races including 120 degrees for 2 days last year. We did put in the higher capacity oil pump. A NASCAR bottle/swirl pot on the cooling system means that we have a hard time getting over 200 degrees except in 100+ heat and then 210 is the highest we see racing. Clutch needs to be and expensive stage 3 and 9 3/4" or it will slip (learned that the hard way). Transmission did blow this weekend (lost 4th and a lot of leaks), but think that is related to damage we missed after getting hit hard in rear wheels at the last race - it had about 12 races on it. We abuse the heck out everything and are delighted with the power and that everything is "stock" (ECM, coils, distributor, timing etc....).

Thanks for the info Plane. but sorry your transmission blew. With all your modifications you made, do you still have A/C? I've read where a lot of beefed up cars don't have A/C when they do their swaps. That's an important thing for me because it really gets hot where I live, plus the high humidity. I understand that it might cut down the power some, but I would like to have it when driving around town.

[This message has been edited by jumper (edited 06-23-2014).]

quote Originally posted by jumper: Thanks for the info Plane. but sorry your transmission blew. With all your modifications you made, do you still have A/C? I've read where a lot of beefed up cars don't have A/C when they do their swaps. That's an important thing for me because it really gets hot where I live, plus the high humidity. I understand that it might cut down the power some, but I would like to have it when driving around town.

I wouldnt worry about it cutting down on power. When its turned off it wont cut down on it
Also AC is left out sometimes from swaps because its not always easy to fit in, or may take custom made mounts and hoses which also cost money and people rather put it into the power.
If its important its important. It would suck the fun out of driving to be miserably hot.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: I wouldnt worry about it cutting down on power. When its turned off it wont cut down on it Also AC is left out sometimes from swaps because its not always easy to fit in, or may take custom made mounts and hoses which also cost money and people rather put it into the power. If its important its important. It would suck the fun out of driving to be miserably hot.

I figured that power was an issue with the AC. And you're right, I don't want to ride around sweating. It "would" take the fun out of cruising. If I needed a lot of power for some reason, I could just turn it off

thanks for the input.

[This message has been edited by jumper (edited 06-23-2014).]

Thought ogre got over 200 rwhp with a carbed 2.8 and others have done so with a modified upper intake manifold neck.

If you can get 210-230 with the 2.8 modified, what can you get out of a 3.4 modified like a maxed 2.8?

Anybody want to chime in on how a built 3.4 would be?

quote Originally posted by Knight: Thought ogre got over 200 rwhp with a carbed 2.8 and others have done so with a modified upper intake manifold neck. If you can get 210-230 with the 2.8 modified, what can you get out of a 3.4 modified like a maxed 2.8? Anybody want to chime in on how a built 3.4 would be?

Yes, PLEASE chime in...

[This message has been edited by jumper (edited 06-23-2014).]

I know that the 2.8 had oiling issues, but did GM correct that with the 3.4? Or do you need a 3400 block to correct the oiling issue?
If the OP is worried about complexity of a swap, the 3.4 upgrade is easiest (essentially same block) with just needing to relocate the starter (jig available). Just put on 2.8 pieces and reinstall.
To go 3400 block with 2.8 heads and externals, check fierosound's ride. He has a website with details.

Please chime in anyone that can elaborate.

------------------
Fiero SE 86 auto...on a mission to a bring her to a modern level of performance and comfort.

I would never waste time with a 2.8. The performance shop here was giving the blocks away. You can find a 3.4 if you want more of a bolt in engine.

I would go with a 3800 or better 3800 SC. There are lots of them out there.

But, trying to get 200 hp out of a 2.8 is more trouble than it is worth. I been down that road. Around 2000 I did power pulleys, chips, and even nitrous. It was all a waste of money. My 2.8 only had 25k on it. I ran a Rotrex SC (hence my handle) and with 6psi I believe I was only putting out around 180hp.

The Fiero is definitely a 200hp car, and does well performance wise around there. The question is how to get that HP in the best way.

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: I would never waste time with a 2.8. The performance shop here was giving the blocks away. You can find a 3.4 if you want more of a bolt in engine. I would go with a 3800 or better 3800 SC. There are lots of them out there. But, trying to get 200 hp out of a 2.8 is more trouble than it is worth. I been down that road. Around 2000 I did power pulleys, chips, and even nitrous. It was all a waste of money. My 2.8 only had 25k on it. I ran a Rotrex SC (hence my handle) and with 6psi I believe I was only putting out around 180hp. The Fiero is definitely a 200hp car, and does well performance wise around there. The question is how to get that HP in the best way.

@Rotrex... I think you have convinced me that trying to hop up a 2.8 is not the way to go. I guess if people were giving away the blocks, that should tell you something. I like the idea about using a 3800 SC, but I have a question for you... I've heard about people doing a swap with a 4.3. Do you think that would be better? I know they make some with a DOHC, but don't know if that's a better idea than the 3800SC. What's your opinion about doing a 4.3 swap?

Keep in mind that I want to keep the AC. How much difference does it make in hp? And is the 4.3 a lot of trouble to swap? I believe you are right when it comes to getting the best hp in the best way.

I am not a banned member this is just negative information .I knew a member who was banned !!
he really help me with my car,uhlanstan spend almost 100 hours helping me,now because of association I have
come under attack by the atheist hate mongers !!
I post from the library do not have my own computer
the power is in the heads is just common sense,it is
where the power is in the 60o V6,,made a tremendous difference in my car