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Fastest windows on a Fiero? A new motor alternative! by Fierobsessed
Started on: 06-19-2014 04:03 PM
Replies: 80 (7608 views)
Last post by: Domtech on 05-18-2017 02:31 PM
Fierobsessed
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Report this Post06-19-2014 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm sick of these...


I was opening my window about a month ago and it stopped about half way down making a gear skipping noise. My cheapo 4 year old window motor decided it had had enough, The large plastic gear in the motor lost a few teeth.


Instead of ordering those same motors, I went on a hunt to find an alternative to the crap cheap window motors that the Fiero (and every other GM vehicle) was using at the time. I spent hours on ebay looking at pictures of window motors for various GM vehicles when I finally stumbled on these...


It has the right number of teeth, AND coincidentally, it has the Fiero's connector too! It also has one less gear reduction, so the output gear is naturally faster. So I bought this one (22155409) and its mirror image (22155408)

Once I got them in, I wanted to make sure that the gear shared the same diameter, as well as tooth pitch.

Clearly, it does, It also has the same shaft stub diameter... This was looking pretty promising now.

So I went ahead and made an adapter plate. I also had to make a stub shaft extension, as the shaft is a bit shorter, and it didn't quite reach the hole that the original would ride in. I tried running the motor without the stub shaft support. Although it did work, it was causing the Fiero's window motor bracket to flex much more than it should have. The shaft doesn't rotate fortunately, the gear only rides on it as a guide, just like the Fiero's motor.

Mounted!



And... Testing!


I did have to extend the connector for the window motor a bit, this motor's connector is on the other end of the motor itself, so there are a couple of little mods required to make it all work. Totally worth it!
My motors are also on relay control, so that the weak amperage capacity of the window switches are not slowing things down. I'd say with this motor swap, that these windows are as fast as any modern cars windows, and for the brief time being... I probably have the fastest window's on a Fiero. I have yet to do the passengers side window yet, so the adapter bracket hasn't been designed or tested yet. Another perk, it's practically silent. These window motors don't really make any noise at all.

[This message has been edited by Fierobsessed (edited 06-19-2014).]

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lateFormula
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Report this Post06-19-2014 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fierobsessed, Nice work!

If you make a kit for these that can be readily and easily installed I will buy a set for my car!
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Report this Post06-19-2014 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sspeedstreetClick Here to Email sspeedstreetSend a Private Message to sspeedstreetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
WOW! This is great! Can you give us some more info on your adapters and the drive gear extension?

Neil
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Report this Post06-19-2014 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Chris_narfSend a Private Message to Chris_narfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
...and that's how it should have come from the factory. Bravo!

------------------
-Chris
'85 V6 SE 4sp (SOLD)
'88 GT - Series 3 SC3800 w/ 3.5" pulley, 1.8" rockers, 3" exhaust, 3.5" intake, 3.29 gearing. Installed and tuned by Sinister Performance
'99 Kawasaki Vulcan 500, owned since new
'03 Sentra SE-R Spec V (Prepping to sell)
'09 G37x Sedan w/ Premium & Nav (wife's car)
'13 G37xS Sedan (new daily driver)

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Report this Post06-19-2014 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jwct7Click Here to Email jwct7Send a Private Message to jwct7Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great Job, I would also be intersted in an installation kit if you choose to build some, or maybe just a cardboard pattern of the mounting plates!!!! Again, great job!
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Report this Post06-19-2014 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zmcdonalSend a Private Message to zmcdonalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very cool!! That would be really cool if you made a kit for that, looks like a very good upgrade from stock.
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Fierobsessed
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Report this Post06-19-2014 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I plan on making an adapter kit. I just have to build one for the passenger side. I did cad out the adapter, so soon I'm thinking I can offer a kit. We'll see how that all goes.
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Report this Post06-19-2014 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JfrostSend a Private Message to JfrostEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

I plan on making an adapter kit. I just have to build one for the passenger side. I did cad out the adapter, so soon I'm thinking I can offer a kit. We'll see how that all goes.


Any idea what vehicle these motors came out of? Great work BTW!

------------------
Project L67 Fiero

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Report this Post06-19-2014 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NW-FieroSend a Private Message to NW-FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A search of the GM Part No reveals a long list of donor vehicles:

22155409 / 22155408 Window Motor Driver New GM OE Part

Buick Lesabre 1990, 1991

Cadillac ESCALADE AWD 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet Beretta 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996

Chevrolet BLAZER 4WD 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996

Chevrolet C1500 2WD PICKUP 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet C1500 2WD SUBURBAN 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet C2500 2WD PICKUP 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet C2500 2WD SUBURBAN 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet C3500 2WD HD PICKUP CHASSIS CAB 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet C3500 2WD PICKUP 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet Corsica 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996

Chevrolet K1500 4WD PICKUP 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet K1500 4WD PICKUP SIERRA 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996

Chevrolet K1500 4WD PICKUP SIERRA XC 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996

Chevrolet K1500 4WD SUBURBAN 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet K2500 4WD PICKUP 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet K2500 4WD SUBURBAN 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet K3500 4WD PICKUP 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet Tahoe 2WD 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Chevrolet Tahoe 4WD 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C1500 2WD PICKUP 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C1500 2WD PICKUP SIERRA 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C1500 2WD PICKUP SIERRA XC 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C1500 2WD SUBURBAN 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C2500 2WD PICKUP 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C2500 2WD PICKUP SIERRA 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C2500 2WD PICKUP SIERRA XC 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C2500 2WD SUBURBAN 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C3500 2WD PICKUP 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C3500 2WD PICKUP SIERRA 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C3500 2WD PICKUP SIERRA XC 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC C3500 4WD PICKUP 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K1500 4WD PICKUP 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K1500 4WD PICKUP SIERRA 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K1500 4WD PICKUP SIERRA XC 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K1500 4WD SUBURBAN 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K2500 4WD PICKUP 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K2500 4WD PICKUP SIERRA 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K2500 4WD PICKUP SIERRA XC 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K2500 4WD SUBURBAN 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K3500 4WD PICKUP 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K3500 4WD PICKUP SIERRA 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC K3500 4WD PICKUP SIERRA XC 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC YUKON 2WD 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC YUKON 2WD DENALI 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC YUKON 4WD 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

GMC YUKON 4WD DENALI 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000

Oldsmobile Cutlass 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995

Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale 1990, 1991

Pontiac Tempest 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992

------------------
Mark
' 85 2m6 3.4PR
In the Great Northwest!

[This message has been edited by NW-Fiero (edited 06-19-2014).]

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dcarrd
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Report this Post06-19-2014 10:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcarrdSend a Private Message to dcarrdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
put me down for two sets when they are ready. Fantastic job!
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Report this Post06-19-2014 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GodSendClick Here to Email GodSendSend a Private Message to GodSendEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rockauto has these right now for 24$ each.
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Report this Post06-19-2014 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dr.CGTClick Here to Email Dr.CGTSend a Private Message to Dr.CGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You need to test them on a stock fiero with old wiring. I can do that for you
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Report this Post06-20-2014 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah! I'll have to take you up on that. I've seen your windows, they take an eternity! Switches make a very big difference to start.
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Report this Post06-20-2014 10:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85LAMBClick Here to Email 85LAMBSend a Private Message to 85LAMBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I love this update,
Please let us know once you have a kit, I really dislike my slow moving windows.
I even replaced the motors but it's still slow compare to other cars.
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Report this Post06-20-2014 11:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
pm sent.
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Report this Post06-20-2014 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DanyelClick Here to visit Danyel's HomePageSend a Private Message to DanyelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm in for the kit too .....
regards
Danyel
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Report this Post06-20-2014 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-05-2016).]

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Report this Post06-20-2014 02:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero VampireSend a Private Message to Fiero VampireEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Diffentianly have my interest. Can't wait to hear more.
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Report this Post06-20-2014 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PonnariSend a Private Message to PonnariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm In for a set!

Sent you a PM
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Report this Post06-21-2014 12:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BridgetownSend a Private Message to BridgetownEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm in for an adapter kit
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Report this Post06-21-2014 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First, bad ass! Double thumbs up!
Second, put me in for 2 sets of adapters.

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Modified stock air canister and base to 3.5 inch for 3800na

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

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Report this Post06-21-2014 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Excellent research! I had thought there may be "faster" motors we could use.
But finding information to compare was difficult beyond the 9-tooth, 10-tooth or 12-tooth (Fiero) drive gear.

These appear to be the same with a longer stub shaft.
It would save the hassle of having to make a shaft extension.
Chev Express / GMC Savanna vans pictured.


These guys have window motors for everything!
Maybe they could find an even closer match.
https://www.a1electric.com/motors.htm

------------------
Calgary time/temp

3.4L Supercharged 87 GT Click me
Super Duty 4 Indy #163 Click me

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-21-2014).]

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Report this Post06-21-2014 03:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoostdreamerClick Here to Email BoostdreamerSend a Private Message to BoostdreamerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

Excellent research! I had thought there may be "faster" motors we could use.
But finding information to compare was difficult beyond the 9-tooth or 12-tooth (Fiero) drive gear.

These appear to be the same with a longer stub shaft.
It would save the hassle of having to make a shaft extension.
Chev Savana and Express vans pictured.


These guys have window motors for everything!
Maybe they could find an even closer match.
https://www.a1electric.com/motors.htm


Better is better!!

I want faster windows, too! I need to completely rebuild my doors including locks and everything so I want to do it all and do it right the first time.
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Report this Post06-21-2014 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Those motors look physically the same as the ones I found, but the connector appears different. The shaft length looks the same too by a visual.
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Report this Post06-21-2014 04:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

Those motors look physically the same as the ones I found, but the connector appears different.
The shaft length looks the same too by a visual.


It was hard to tell from comparing the pics.
Is it the adapter plate that makes lengthening the stub shaft necessary?

I just got a set from a 2001 GMC Savanna at PnP.
The shaft is 5/16" diameter and 3/8" long from gear to end for comparison.
Overall length from face of motor to end of shaft is 15/16"

The different connector isn't a problem as I got and chunk of the harness, as you mentioned the stock wiring is too short anyway.
It may that the only reason for the different part number is because of the different connector.

The Cadillac motors mt22062567 mt22062568 appear to have the wider gears like the Fiero motors.
See here https://www.a1electric.com/.../cat_cadillacmtr.htm

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-21-2014).]

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Fierobsessed
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Report this Post06-22-2014 03:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found that even if the adapter plate was non existent in thickness, the shaft would almost reach the hole, but not quite. The plate does two things, it gives the motor something to bolt to, and it guides the partial gear on the arm. I tested the motor without the stub extension and it worked fine, but once it encountered the end of the partial gear, the shaft moved significantly. So I knew it was going to be a requirement. The shaft is about 1/8" short. Really though, the shaft extension isn't complicated, though I can make something better than I did on this first window.

The motor you describe from the van pretty much is exactly the same as mine. I'm betting that the connector is the only difference.
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Report this Post06-22-2014 05:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great job. Persistance wins out. Id have put in stock window motors and just cussed them for being slow...lol. Now you can also make yourself a few bucks.
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Report this Post06-22-2014 09:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looking at the pictures its hard to tell but just what is the thickness of the adapter plate? looks to be aluminum 1/4' thick?

would putting the plate on the other side of the motor help in any way with the length of the shaft problem?

just questions, many times when fixing a problem I find after the fact that if I had done something just a little different it would have made a big difference or worked better.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Report this Post06-22-2014 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awesome post!
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Report this Post06-22-2014 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I hate these Fiero window motors. I have new ones in my car from 4 years back. The window switches need to be cleaned and lubed about every two years. Would love to do this upgrade.

Thank for spending your time to get us here.
-Joe
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Report this Post06-23-2014 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GodSendClick Here to Email GodSendSend a Private Message to GodSendEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just out of curiosity : Is it possible to swap the internals from the faster motor into the stock fiero case. Would that eliminate all the extra items needed? (What exactly makes them faster? Can that piece be swapped)?
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Report this Post06-23-2014 06:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm in for a set of plates if you want to sell them.
What about the stub shaft extension? How did you do that?
Is that something that the average person (without a lathe or welder) can fab up?
Will it become stupidly simple when I see it?

Thanks!
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Cajun
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Report this Post06-23-2014 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CajunClick Here to Email CajunSend a Private Message to CajunEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
how did you make/build the stub shaft extension? Do you have any pics of it.
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Report this Post06-23-2014 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is GREAT!!!! I have a 1998 suburban that is on the list that has been sitting for years because of a bad fuel pump. That means 4 motors for me. I almost sold it(basically for parts) a couple of months ago but could not find the Title in time.
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Knight
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Report this Post06-23-2014 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KnightSend a Private Message to KnightEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Put me down for one set of two. My passenger window motor failed and my driver's side is about to go.
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Report this Post06-30-2014 05:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mickeyswing52Click Here to Email mickeyswing52Send a Private Message to mickeyswing52Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anything new happening?
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Report this Post07-02-2014 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CajunClick Here to Email CajunSend a Private Message to CajunEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any updates?
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Drifter_GTR
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From: Denver, CO, United States
Registered: Jun 2014


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Report this Post07-04-2014 01:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Drifter_GTRClick Here to Email Drifter_GTRSend a Private Message to Drifter_GTREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great job bud! I definitely want 2 sets!
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E.Furgal
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From: LAND OF CONFUSION
Registered: Mar 2012


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Report this Post07-04-2014 07:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
nice and if you get the motors from a junkyard crawl. you can get the pigtail with it.. and make a short patch cable.. so the fiero oem wire stays uncut


silly question. tho.. some have put the drivers motor(fiero motor) on pass side and the pass side on drivers so they can install speakers in the doors... have you eye balled these to do that.. cause many while they have it apart might want to do that so they can add speakers to doors.. just a thought

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 07-04-2014).]

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Lou and Blue
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From: Baldwin,NY,USA
Registered: Dec 2013


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Report this Post07-04-2014 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Very interested, please PM me with all info once you have the adaptor plates made up and ready to sell.

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keeip it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
VIN #5835
"Don't hate ... Carburate!"
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Peugot 604 Intake manifold
Exhaust headers
Anti-3rd brake light

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