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88 Duke question by kendallville
Started on: 06-14-2014 05:34 PM
Replies: 19 (171 views)
Last post by: Csjag on 06-16-2014 06:42 PM
kendallville
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Report this Post06-14-2014 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kendallvilleSend a Private Message to kendallvilleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is only the third time the car has gone very far since I swapped the 87 duke out and the 88 in.
Last weekend and today are two of them and both times the motor runs good until you get it good and warm.
Today I went to fort wayne and back with some time in a couple stores in between about 60 miles round trip.
On the way home about 5 miles from home slowed for a stop light and the car started to buck then died .
That is what it does only after it gets warm, it starts back up and then ok until you slow up again.
plugs and wires were new last year only about 300 miles on them. I did notice oil pressure was down under
40 before it started then back over 40 after restarting.
EDIT TO ADD FOLLOW UP QUESTION AT END

[This message has been edited by kendallville (edited 06-16-2014).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post06-14-2014 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
High temps expand the electronics and cause bad connections. It could be in your coils, ICM, connectors....I'm not good at the 88 Duke ignition system... The oil pressure is a function of temperature too, and that all sounds sort of normal.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post06-14-2014 05:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

High temps expand the electronics and cause bad connections. It could be in your coils, ICM, connectors....I'm not good at the 88 Duke ignition system... The oil pressure is a function of temperature too, and that all sounds sort of normal.


?????
Seriously???????

Give me a break!
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86soon3.4
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Report this Post06-14-2014 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86soon3.4Send a Private Message to 86soon3.4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is it an automatic? If so the TCC solenoid could be bad and not releasing.


Steve
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olejoedad
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Report this Post06-14-2014 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Unplug the connector on the front of the trans and see if the problem disappears.
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Csjag
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Report this Post06-14-2014 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 85 duke was doing the same thing when I first got it running and it turned out to be the coil. Of course I know you have a different system but it could be the coil pack
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Gall757
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Report this Post06-14-2014 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


?????
Seriously???????

Give me a break!


Not sure what you don't like about my comment, Joe. ICMs tend to fail when they get hot, and work again when they cool off. The reason for that is that the circuit substrate expands it creates gaps in the traces....or some component that is soldered in place moves a little bit and loses contact. Other components do similar things. If you think that is not true, let us know.
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TopNotch
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Report this Post06-14-2014 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 88 duke had a similar problem (ran badly after getting warm). It turned out to be the tube connecting the fuel pump to the hard line. For some reason it was not clamped, and when it got warm, apparently the rubber got softer and couldn't hold the fuel pressure.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post06-14-2014 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:


Not sure what you don't like about my comment, Joe. ICMs tend to fail when they get hot, and work again when they cool off. The reason for that is that the circuit substrate expands it creates gaps in the traces....or some component that is soldered in place moves a little bit and loses contact. Other components do similar things. If you think that is not true, let us know.


Letting you know I disagree.....decades of experience in electroplating, including circuit boards and related component assembly. Sorry Gall, but this is off the wall......
Joe

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kendallville
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Report this Post06-15-2014 12:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kendallvilleSend a Private Message to kendallvilleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok I am back I took the grand kids to a drive in movie.
First it is a automatic so may be the TCC solenoid not sure I have heard of the part but never worked on one.
I have heard in the past coils go bad with heat so that is what I was thinking the problem was.
or I did just have the fuel pump out to try to fix the fuel gauge, but it did it once before that.
TCC solenoid does sound logical , because it does it when you are slowing up and then start up
when it is shifting. is there a way to check that or do I have to take it to a transmission shop?
Joe "Unplug the connector on the front of the trans and see if the problem disappears."
not sure what connector would it show in my Haynes manual ?

[This message has been edited by kendallville (edited 06-15-2014).]

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kendallville
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Report this Post06-15-2014 12:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kendallvilleSend a Private Message to kendallvilleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
just read this on the fiero store

84-88 AUTOMATIC TORQUE CONVERTER LOCK-UP SOLENOID
You may need a new torque converter solenoid if the automatic transmission in your Fiero shutters and/or stalls when you come to a stop.
When the factory solenoid fails it will not disengage the torque converter and cause the shutter/stall.
The solenoid is located just inside the tranny pan.
That does sound like the problem I am having.
but I do not touch transmissions , I do not know anything about them.

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trotterlg
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Report this Post06-15-2014 01:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trotterlgClick Here to Email trotterlgSend a Private Message to trotterlgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Letting you know I disagree.....decades of experience in electroplating, including circuit boards and related component assembly. Sorry Gall, but this is off the wall......
Joe


Don't know where you learned this, but you need to go back to school. Temperature is one of, if not, the main causes of electrical failures. If you car quits when it gets hot, first place to look is the electrics. Larry
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olejoedad
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Report this Post06-15-2014 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by trotterlg:


Don't know where you learned this, but you need to go back to school. Temperature is one of, if not, the main causes of electrical failures. If you car quits when it gets hot, first place to look is the electrics. Larry


Correct, due to component failure; NOT due to traces failing from substrate expansion or shift causing continuity loss.
Gall's theory is not remotely creditable.

I assume by your response you have hands on experience with circuit board manufacturing?


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olejoedad
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Report this Post06-15-2014 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

olejoedad

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The transmission connector is easy to locate, it is the only plug on the tranny on the front (passenger compartment side).
Unplug it, drive it around and see if the problem disappears.
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fierofool
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Report this Post06-15-2014 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Trace failure of circuit boards. I've had a goodly number of ignition control modules fail when the engine was hot. Replace it and throw the failed one in the trunk. Months down the road or even a day afterward, I've put them back in and most of them would be functional again. Sometimes I would have one that had experienced it's fatal event, but most of them would have several rejuvenated cycles. If not one of the traces on the board, what could it be?

The Georgia Fieros 88 Duke Courtesy Car was having similar problems, but it's a 5-speed. When it would die, you could turn the ignition off, wait for a half minute and restart it. Turned out that it was the injector that was failing. That is another area to look at in your troubleshooting list.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post06-15-2014 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The trace is copper that has been plated onto the substrate material, which has a lower coefficient of expansion than the copper.
Most likely failure mode is a component mounted to the board that overheats and no longer functions within its design parameters. After cooling, functionality may return to the component, maybe not. As for circuit trace failure, very doubtful.
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TopNotch
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Report this Post06-15-2014 04:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's real easy to determine if the fault is the TCC solenoid. Just disconnect the blue wire on the firewall side of the transmission. If the problem goes away, you've found the problem. You can actually drive the car that way, but your gas mileage will suffer, since the torque converter will never lock up.
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kendallville
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Report this Post06-15-2014 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kendallvilleSend a Private Message to kendallvilleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok the wire for the tcc is easy enough to find , but I am guessing that since it only does it after it runs for awhile
I will have to take it for a long enough drive to see if it works? On short trips into town I have not had any problems
or at least not bad enough to pay attention to.
I had not thought to much about a fuel problem, but fierofool made me think instead of a bad injector could the
fuel filter start plugging up on longer trips? I put a new one most years but did not do that this year.
EDIT to add I found this on the TCC solenoid
http://www.kichline.com/chuck/fiero/TCC.htm

[This message has been edited by kendallville (edited 06-15-2014).]

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kendallville
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Report this Post06-16-2014 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kendallvilleSend a Private Message to kendallvilleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Question If the tcc solenoid is electrical could it be acting up because of a dirty wire connection ?
I did have it unplugged when I swapped the dukes, so maybe its acting up because of a poor connection?
( I really just don't want to mess with it )
yes or am I off track ?
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Csjag
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Report this Post06-16-2014 06:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It could be the connection, I got my cruise control working by cleaning the connector
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