Over the years, quite a few members have been banned from PFF. Usually because they acted like a-holes and their banning was just. But we really don't know the reason why they behaved as such. Granted, some are simply a-holes at the core. But others might have been in a bad period of their lives. Problem is, a lot of the banned members really knew their stuff about Fieros. And although we can do without their unacceptable behavior, their knowledge is something that is missed.
So I was thinking, maybe it's time to unban some of the banned members (provided they haven't already returned under another user name)? Let them start with a clean slate? You think that's a good idea? Or possibly one of the worst I've ever had?
Agreed, the ban-hammer can always be swung again should it need to be. Plus the really bad eggs might not come back anyways due to the indignity of being banned in the first place (the F those guys principle).
I'd guess that people have been negged long ago by people who forgot that they even did so. There's no pardon because the ratings are "sticky".
I would suggest that each rating be associated with a datestamp. When the rating is more than 6 months old, it should be thrown out.
This way, the ratings system will reflect relatively recent behaviour. As ratings become expired, a member could become unbanned (with email notification).
There could be some ban status threshold like this: bool ban_status = if(num_non-expired_negs_ratings - num_non-expired_pos_ratings > threshold);
A person could re-rate another member daily (thus preventing their rating from expiring), but at least it would be a conscious decision reflecting the current (not historic) popularity level.
Hey! I want someone on here banned....I keep getting into arguments with him....And whats really frustrating is, I usually LOSE the arguments! (Wouldn't be so bad if I was always WINNING the arguments....)
I think he goes by the name "CVXJET" on here.............
I see a lot of people get banned and the reason is never given. Just User Banned under their ratings bar. I saw that Tony Kania got banned. I always thought he was fairly mellow so that was a surprise to me. I am all for giving people a second chance.
------------------ 86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo rear SLA suspension QA1 coilovers on tube arms
I saw that Tony Kania got banned. I always thought he was fairly mellow so that was a surprise to me.
... You have got to be kidding.
Some members have been banned for good reason, and should never be allowed to return.
On the other hand, someone like JazzMan was picked on relentlessly by the usual suspects (of that era) until he just snapped and went kind of bonkers... which included him deleting a lot of his very helpful tech posts.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-20-2020).]
Some members have been banned for good reason, and should never be allowed to return.
On the other hand, someone like JazzMan was picked on relentlessly by the usual suspects (of that era) until he just snapped and went kind of bonkers... which included him deleting a lot of his very helpful tech posts.
I can relate.
Remember my Prototype thread?
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 05-20-2020).]
You need to just live with the decisions some trolls made. All forums have a similar problem in that a few troublemakers will group up and eff the forum over. Any site that allows members to have people banned just because they mass negged a member has a huge flaw. The premise is wrong in the OP. People sometimes get banned because of a small group destroys board behavior, blames the person they disagree with and the one person loses by getting banned. Live with the decision.
The O/T forum is prob the main reason for people being gone, generally because a few problem posters can't take someone having a diff opinion or dropping truth bombs. Best thing would be to close that forum.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wftb: I saw that Tony Kania got banned. [quote]
As much as I totally agree with the last comment you made, I disagree with this one. Prior to O/T being created (a year or so after PFF started), off topic conversation was messing up the tech threads. There needed to be a place for members to just chat. The problem, as I see it, is that boorish anti-social behavior (whether it's occurring in O/T or elsewhere) is allowed to continue unchecked for far too long before anything is done about it.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-22-2020).]
From my perspective, the list of people banned that I would like to see back (because they were a great contributor to the forum) is about 1/10th the length of the list of good people that left on their own accord. If the intention is to drive more traffic and activity, I would suggest reaching out to the high posters and contributors from both groups.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-20-2020).]
Re the O/P... I would tend to disagree with "unbanning". With possibly a few exceptions (which you probably would not agree with.)
Regardless... If this is implemented, there needs to be some accountability. If someone comes back and resumes the "gaping ******* " routine, there needs to be a way to get rid of them quickly.
Conversely...there are some people who still need to be gone (you might be surprised who I might vote off the island), but they are still here.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-23-2020).]
From my perspective, the list of people banned that I would like to see back (because they were a great contributor to the forum) is about 1/10th the length of the list of good people that left on their own accord. If the intention is to drive more traffic and activity, I would suggest reaching out to the high posters and contributors from both groups.
I'll come back start posting again since I can't give you crap on facebook like I do to the rest of the regulars from here.
Originally posted by darkhorizon: I'll come back start posting again since I can't give you crap on facebook like I do to the rest of the regulars from here.
Good to see you posting again, even if it is with a non-3800 fiero!
The O/T forum is prob the main reason for people being gone, generally because a few problem posters can't take someone having a diff opinion or dropping truth bombs. Best thing would be to close that forum.
Cliff I know the T/OT probably drives half your traffic and therefore half your ad revenue, but it really gives PFF a bad reputation. The few times I've looked in there the most vile anti-social things are being discussed and makes me not want to be a part of this forum.
That being said if there is a member that petitions for reinstatement it should be considered. But I would imagine the vast majority have moved on and have no interest in posting again.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 05-21-2020).]
i think that banning should be only for a certain time on first offence. Second offence longer. Third offence permanent.
jmho
------------------ Astronomy says we will find a coded signal from outer space. Then we'll KNOW that life exists there, for coded signals aren't by chance.
Biology says there are coded genetic signals in every cell, but we KNOW that no intelligence created life.
I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!
Thing is I never go on off topic and haven't for about 8 years now. So my impression of people is from their posting on Tech chat the mall and the construction zone. Having an off topic section has cost us a lot of people that got PO'd and left on their own accord. People like Blooseberry who can never be replaced.
------------------ 86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo rear SLA suspension QA1 coilovers on tube arms
Nothing needs to change. The forum is fine just like it is. You run your mouth, you pay the price......simple. It's called life.
The contributing members who were worth a damn to the Fiero world all left on their own accord. They weren't banned. People like Madcurl, Troyboy, Infinite Will, and Bloozberry all left because they chose not to deal with the dickheads on here who DON'T get banned.
I don't know of any member who was banned that had such great knowledge of the Fiero that we need them back.
Having an off topic section has cost us a lot of people that got PO'd and left on their own accord. People like Blooseberry who can never be replaced.
Sorry, but you've got this particular example completely wrong. Here's my response to what you've posted taken from a five year old thread.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I don't believe that was the problem exactly. I believe Blooz had difficulty accepting the ugliness often exhibited in O/T showing up in the tech threads as well. I'm sure he would've preferred O/T to be a more pleasant environment (as do I), but considering he spent no time in O/T, I suspect it was the extracurricular nonsense in certain tech threads that turned him off.
I'm very disappointed he's left, and I may not even agree that it was the all round best move, but for him it was the correct choice... and I understand and respect his decision.
On the other hand, I agree with the following sentiments 100%!
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:
The contributing members who were worth a damn to the Fiero world all left on their own accord. They weren't banned. People like Madcurl, Troyboy, Infinite Will, and Bloozberry all left because they chose not to deal with the dickheads on here who DON'T get banned.
I don't know of any member who was banned that had such great knowledge of the Fiero that we need them back.
There is nothing wrong with the way it is set up now. Leave it alone. If we want banned members back, we will drop our negs and Cliff can invite them back via an email.
My answer to Cliff's question would depend on who is being unbanned, and why. There are certain people whom I think should never be allowed back here. There are others who were run off, simply because "the clique" didn't like them. Those are two very different things.
IMO, the elephant in the room is the ratings system itself. Long-term members (like myself) have amassed hundreds of ratings. The forum population nowadays is low enough that members like me cannot be banned via "brute force" ratings. It's mathematically impossible. The "speed-ban" mechanic seems to be a band-aid for that. But even the speed-ban can be problematic.
So what am I getting at? Perhaps a ratings system reset is in order. And maybe adjust the "trigger levels" of the algorithm to match the current forum population.
There hasn't been any moderation in the forum since I've been around. Allowing posters to have an active role in banning people is madness. People can create multiple usernames to neg others. Personality disorders can't be removed from the process of negging people.
I support the statements of others who cited those valuable contributors who left because there wasn't moderation.
Rating system: It works. It actually works perfectly. I know that since its inception, people have been claiming members can be and have been banned by other members ganging up. And my response every single time has been: not only is it pretty much impossible, I have also never even seen it attempted. Mind you, every single ban is double checked by me. I can see exactly who and how people rate others. And never have I seen anything that even comes close to "ganging up". Also, the rating system is in no way protecting you from being banned. You can have 100% positive ratings and you can still be banned. There are tons of examples of that.
TO/T: I don't understand why anything that happens there, reflects in any way, good or bad, on the rest of the forum. As far as I can see, rivalries there don't bleed over to the other sections. It in fact it keeps the other sections clean. Which is exactly why TO/T exists in the first place.
Back on topic, I do think people can change over time. If there's one flaw in the rating system, is that ratings stick. Ratings do not in any way reflect what the current batch of active members feel about other members. You can have 100 negative ratings, and 100 positive ratings. If those 100 negative ratings are from members who haven't been active in years, while the 100 positive ratings are all from active members, than that person should have a 100% positive rating. So yes, maybe ratings should "fall off" after a certain amount of time, good or bad. Or maybe just the ratings from members who haven't been active in the past year should disappear.
TO/T: I don't understand why anything that happens there, reflects in any way, good or bad, on the rest of the forum. As far as I can see, rivalries there don't bleed over to the other sections. It in fact it keeps the other sections clean. Which is exactly why TO/T exists in the first place.
With all due respect, I believe the ad revenue in T/OT has blinded you to how vile it has become. It reflects badly on the entire forum. You can't build a mansion over pile of sewage and not expect it to devalue the property. It's your forum, do as you please, but also recognize many have left of their own accord, in part because of the bad behavior cultivated in T/OT.
With all due respect, I believe the ad revenue in T/OT has blinded you to how vile it has become. It reflects badly on the entire forum.
It is probably worth mentioning that the other 99.99% of forums in the world don't have the "anything goes" kind of off-topic section like the one here. No politics allowed, no religion allowed. However, enforcing that rule is a ton or work. Like a 24/7 job.
Originally posted by jscott1: ...but also recognize many have left of their own accord, in part because of the bad behavior cultivated in T/OT.
IMO, that is the real tragedy. When I commented earlier about people being run off by "the clique", I was referring to that. The people being run off aren't (for the most part) being banned. They're leaving in disgust, because of the nasty treatment they receive from "the clique" in O/T.
If this phenomenon continues, the website will continue losing viewers until there's nobody left except "the clique" and some people who they tolerate. In a time when web forums are losing viewers to social media outlets, the last thing a forum needs is a hostile atmosphere.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 05-22-2020).]