As a new member of the last few weeks I personally only joined the FB page as I believed it was an extension to the forum here and surprised to see that it is not. I actively searched for "Pennocks fiero" on facebook to find what I thought was an official page.
Not suggesting to boycott anything but surely a good and cheap starting point would be to create your own official page on Facebook linking to it from the forum and vice versa. Im sure all of the members on here would join for starters and I know I certainly would so you should have a fairly large instant hit of users and followers. You would likely have a number of people in the existing facebook group join also and the users and time will determine the best area for information etc. With the information currently in the "back catalogue" here also you could perhaps publish facebook post on your new page with "how toos" or generally interesting but usefull old and pinned topics from the form. Then link back to the forum topic for more detailed discussions keeping best of both worlds. Combining with as some suggested taking on investment from within the community could be enough to build on what you currently have.
I would also like others mentioned be keen not to see the existing forum close with the data lost. Adding it to a CD etc is one options. Another site I am on is https://www.evilution.co.uk/ which I think has a great solution. It would require work though and possibly cost to implement. They have a wealth of information available for free but if you want a full breakdown etc you need to be a paid up member at min £15.00 per year but people can pay more if they wish.
Best of luck and I will watch the conversation closely and would also be willing to have a small subscription payment model.
edit: just found the real pennocks fiero forum page from a post someone put on the other one. Weird though that It didnt come up when I originally searched before. Ive liked it also. Being new to the whole scene I have no idea of any history if there is some but would there be any point in considering linking up the facebook pages and the forum together with you taking more control on the facebook page also to get revenue from it too. Your name attachment has to have a value on it as was the only reason I liked the page to begin with like Im sure others have also.
[This message has been edited by T7PJJ (edited 02-12-2020).]
Have you considered getting the facebook group taken down or you take it over? You really do have every right to it and facebook will probably agree. You could then at least try to repair the damage it has done.
This is probably the best advice so far.
I have ZERO use for Facebook therefore not a member. However they appear as though they are cleaning up their act per reports and no longer look the other way.
Being that this place has obviously been around longer, much longer, with documented proof of that, I am certain that if Cliff made a cease and desist claim Facebook would shut down the plagiaristic page.
The Pennock's group on Facebook gets very little traffic compared to the "Fiero" page, which Cliff would sadly have no rights to. I think it best to contact the Moderators of the "Fiero" page and see if they can link the forum in their Description, that way the Facebook page is used as supplemental material to the forums. The "Fiero" Facebook page is fantastic and also a value resource, it is ignorant of people to assume that it's not devoid of use. The nature of how people use the internet is changing and it's incredibly stupid to stand in the way of this. Sure the Forums provide a different perspective and layout (that I personally do enjoy quite a bit), one cannot deny that the Facebook page has many perks as well, ease of us and a modern mobile interface at that.
In my opinion, the forums should be used for a long-form assist method, giving a valuable guide and hand-book for things, while the Facebook page "Fiero", is good for a quick, "on the fly" networking tool.
For the record, the Facebook page for Pennock's gets VERY little traffic compared to the "Fiero" page. So I honestly would not worry about it too much.
To follow up to my previous post, the key to survival of the forum is three fold.
1: Network - I mentioned previously that the Pennock's group is not as active as the Fiero group on Facebook. What needs to be done is people need to be redirected and funneled over to the primary "Fiero" page, that would require the few people that do use the Pennock's page to actively link back to either the forums themselves, or the "Fiero" page. We can all do this.
2: Link the forum to the "Fiero" page, contact them, and if they have not already, link to the forum in the description of the group (for added effect, they can add the link to the questionnaire you fill out when you join that group, I recommend this). The people on that page also seem to be keenly aware of the forum, they use the page because of it's ease of use and mobile efficiency.
3: More ads - Yes I realize this has already been covered, but I would like to further elaborate by saying you can create a premium membership option that would remove the ads. While I am aware that most younger people (myself very much included) would simply use an ad blocker, some added perks would be nice for this premium feature. I am drawing a blank at the moment what these could be without completely making the free accounts useless, but I'm sure we can all get creative (maybe larger avatar size please? )
Source, I am in IT and heavy on social media, I see where things are going and how to adapt without killing off the vibe and flavor the forums give. I am old enough to remember a time when Forums were the number one and frankly only place for fans and information to be shared, and I do see a future for sites like these, but it has to work WITH the "new" technology, not boycott it or ignore that, that would be the quickest way for the forum to REALLY die. We do not need that reputation either, as everyone on these Facebook pages when Pennock's is mentioned, it is only mentioned in GLOWING terms. They love it, we love it, and we should work together.
Now I will wait while I'm called an idiot.
Also let's not forget that Instagram is a thing, and a lot of that is used for picture sharing in the Fiero community, and I may say it is FANTASTIC for this.
[This message has been edited by Vicophine (edited 02-12-2020).]
The truth is it is a tough go for nearly every model and make as the auto hobby has been in decline. The younger gen is more about a Jeep and trucks or just video games.
I don't think its as much a "car vs. Jeep" issue as much as it is a "forum" issue. There are probably Jeep and video game forums and magazines which are struggling too.
I'm on a bunch of forums on a whole bunch of different topics and they are all struggling. Photography, sports, music.... These should all be going strong but in each case, the answer is always the same: the traffic has all gone over to Facebook groups. That's great if you like Facebook but all too frequently when one good forum dies it gets replaced by a dozen or more competing or redundant Facebook groups and the membership gets scattered all over the place and a sense of community is lost. Not to mention, the archiving and search features of Facebook are pretty awful. Like I said, great if you like Facebook, but if you prefer the forum type of environment, Facebook is just a big cancer eating away at everything.
I am not too tech-savy about FB and other social media sites. I frequent PFF almost daily. I did not even know about the FB Pennocks.
From several of these recent posts, it seems like FB is taking over for the "forum" sites. You should not try to fight the FB site, rather, you should utilize it. Take control of the FB site. After all, it IS YOUR name! I'm hopeful that all the input from everyone on this forum will result in successful ideas that will preserve this jewel of Fiero information. There is strength in numbers.
Instead of buying some new accessory for your Fiero, buy Cliff a beer. It's a small price to pay to say thanks for providing this useful forum.
I will be watching and reading this post at least twice a day!
Originally posted by sledcaddie: From several of these recent posts, it seems like FB is taking over for the "forum" sites. You should not try to fight the FB site, rather, you should utilize it. Take control of the FB site. After all, it IS YOUR name! I'm hopeful that all the input from everyone on this forum will result in successful ideas that will preserve this jewel of Fiero information. There is strength in numbers.
Agreed completely, it is not necessarily a negative thing, social media when utilized properly, can GREATLY benefit the community and by proxy this forum!
Nothing against Facebook but this forum with its extra features is so much easier to use. I can understand that its expensive to run so here is the solution. In the white banner that now appears above, cut it in small rectangles and sell the spaces to advertisers at an affordable price. Then make them clickable to the associated website. You can sell the space to places like Rock Auto, Autozone, Fiero parts dealers, repair facilities, Fiero Clubs, Hemmings Auto News, show events (like Carlisle) and of course the Fiero Store. Look at this website and see how they do it [url=https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/ ]Representative Ad Banner w links[/url] Start off by selling each of 24 ad boxes at $100 each for 6 months and clubs at $50 for 6 months. That's cheap advertising and they also get an immediate redirect to their website if they click on it. Another suggestion is to charge a small fee for using the Mall area. OK Facebook doesn't charge but eBay does .You can at least request a donation from those that have sold here. I send a yearly donation because I use this section and it helps clear out the garage. Sell downloadable CD's that document and discuss specific forum topics. For Instance 3800SC, 4.9L, Ecotec swaps, upholstery, body modifications, or the entire construction zone if it can fit. The final suggestion is to sell a specific email list to anyone wanting to reach car enthusiasts. There are many ways to make this website pay for itself and be profitable.
I am a new member here, although not so young at 50 y/o, and visit the site almost everyday to see what's new or to search for the right trouble-shooting advise or ideas for fixing my son's first car, a 1988 Fiero GT auto with a 1995 3.4L pushrod upgrade. I used to be in electrical/quality engineering (now I'm a law enforcement officer) and used to be on-top of technology, but I have long since fallen behind. I do not have a Facebook account, but have recently checked into their marketplace and see that I was missing a whole segment of used car & Fiero parts. So, linking between the two sites would probably be good for both sites for the benefit of the Fiero community, and if it can be done in a way that generates profit for you, please do that.
But, what I can tell you is this, most people like me are frugal, busy with life events too, and a bit lazy with appreciation of people like you who have created this wonderful site, and need a push, a "reminder", to be donators. Thanks for the "reminder" - I just donated. And I for one, would gladly pay an annual membership ("reminder") fee to help keep this site running.
Thank you, thank you Cliff for this site. Brian Walsh
I believe the archived collection of the forum is worth its weight in gold. However a collection of 1's and 0's probably doesn't weigh a whole hell of a lot. If there is a way to purchase the 30GB as a download, with a pay wall between you and the download, I would gladly fork over $100USD minimum, to have on file should the forum shut down.
As much as it would be a shame for all of this to go away, don't drive yourself into the poorhouse trying to maintain it. 30GB is nothing in terms of modern storage space/cost, please keep redundant copies around if you do have to take it offline (if only temporarily).
I refuse to use Facebook just because Facebook. Unfortunately it's very popular with people in the age group that typical drive Fiero's right now.
Why not bring in some associates into the fold. With them have meetings and strategies. Maybe have partnerships or a « wall of fame / Contributors » If I am not mistaking you own the fiero.com domain name this can be a valuable asset. As a trusted and respected seller here I am willing pay for a » Store front » section and banner on your site ( Monthly or yearly fee). This would be GREAT as I always have to BUMP my sale threads because they disappears with the TONs of threads of people selling and buying. I would also save on buying a website host and domaine name ... (hint, hint, hint ;-). I am pretty sure regular trusted sellers here would be ready to pay a for an active store page with banner.. This store page could also be HOTLINKED into it creating more traffic here for you. Anyways I ALWAYS be here for you and if I can help in any other way please contact me .. I am on Facebook. BUT not my cup of tea!!
greatest regards Cliff your canadian friend Danyel
ALSO ......
quote
Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT: ................, I am certain that if Cliff made a cease and desist claim Facebook would shut down the plagiaristic page.
because your’s and this forum’s reputation are being used to THEIR advantage.... they could hand over the page or close if they were honest on why they called their page with YOUR name.... it’s time for them to pay the Ferryman...
Please don't take what I am about to say as a negative comment. I know you have rules about who and what threads go into the construction zone. very few threads are still current and some of the original builders aren't even active anymore. as a result most of the current builds and projects are now in general chat. a lot of those are worthy of the construction zone and might see more traffic if they were added to the construction zone and focus more on builds. Facebook does not really allow anyone to document a build without creating an entirely new page so there are still perks to this sight. I am with one of the other posts in this thread. if you can create an official facebook page with direct links to builds and updates I feel PFF would see more traffic as well just due to the fact that it cant be documented on facebook in an organized fashion.
I personally have removed FB from my life and this is really my only communication with the fiero community
PS you can move my build thread to the construction zone. Operation T-Top Widebody (was: T-Top Revival)
when I did have FB I was constantly linking threads to facebook posts.
Folks, the ideas and recommendations are coming thick and fast for Cliff. Let's not lose sight of the issue, We need to be more supportive, money-wise, of Cliff's effort and work. Use to Buy-me-a-Beer button.
I think that we all can see, by the huge number of responses already, to the possibility of losing this forum, that the support is there. I never knew what the "buy me a beer" tab meant. Today, I sent in a pretty good donation. I would only hope that many others add donations, to keep Cliff up and running, until a workable solution can be decided upon. What is it worth, to have had access to all this Fiero info over the years, which helped us to repair/improve our Fiero's?
1- It looks like most of your google search results are going to your style=printable pages. Those pages don't have ads or navigation to keep people on the site. For example, search for "fiero timing chain" you are near the top but its all the print friendly pages with no ads. You need to add a canonical tag in your header that points to the non printable pag ie less then sign link rel="canonical" href="https://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/showThread.cgi?forum=Archive-000001&thread=20030531-2-031121&style=" greater then sign (the google result had the same url but style=printable). This tells google and the other search engines you want the regular page (with ads) indexed, not the printable page.
2 - You should add another ad slot. I would suggest after the 3rd post on pages with at least 3 posts.
3 - you should add some javascript that detects ad blockers and just does a little pop up saying "hey can you please turn off your ad blocker, ads are what keeps this site running"
4 - If you are not already using google webmaster tools / search console, you should lots of good info and suggestions.
You should be making about 10x what you are if you are only getting $5 / day with that level of traffic.
[This message has been edited by mrfred8 (edited 02-13-2020).]
Repainting 5 cars does not equate to anything regarding what the construction zone is about. It also takes a lot of balls to post your "wants" here when this is about saving the forum.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 02-12-2020).]
Why not bring in some associates into the fold. With them have meetings and strategies. Maybe have partnerships or a « wall of fame / Contributors » If I am not mistaking you own the fiero.com domain name this can be a valuable asset. As a trusted and respected seller here I am willing pay for a » Store front » section and banner on your site ( Monthly or yearly fee). This would be GREAT as I always have to BUMP my sale threads because they disappears with the TONs of threads of people selling and buying. I would also save on buying a website host and domaine name ... (hint, hint, hint ;-). I am pretty sure regular trusted sellers here would be ready to pay a for an active store page with banner.. This store page could also be HOTLINKED into it creating more traffic here for you. Anyways I ALWAYS be here for you and if I can help in any other way please contact me .. I am on Facebook. BUT not my cup of tea!!
greatest regards Cliff your canadian friend Danyel
ALSO ......
because your’s and this forum’s reputation are being used to THEIR advantage.... they could hand over the page or close if they were honest on why they called their page with YOUR name.... it’s time for them to pay the Ferryman...
Edited to add some ideas.
I'll admit I joined that group because I thought it was part of this page. I didn't post here initially but I did donate as I read lots to help get my GT back on the road. After reading this I've come to realize that the PFF FB group took the name without permission I have removed myself from that group. Doesn't solve any problems here necessarily, but to me shows some support here.
I visited yesterday over on the fake PFF FB page, things got a little nasty with a lot of people supporting their unethical behavior of that sites management, posting phony evidence "to prove their case" and some people against, but I think those folks supporting the real PFF were ultimately banned.
Doing well Cliff. I kind of gave up on Fieros after owning 7 of them. Just not a feasible car to own here anymore. Have had a number of different vehicles since but my current ride is my old man car now I am 54. 2006 CLK500 Avantgarde.
Also doing up a couple of old motorbikes as I don't have to crawl under them.
Sorry to hear about your issues. All I can advise is stay strong, things will get better. I know after I lost my house I was depressed as but life goes on and we have to adapt.
How have things been otherwise? Still coding and doing amazing **** on computers?
[This message has been edited by AusFiero (edited 02-13-2020).]
I am using Google Webmaster Tools and Analytics. One thing I have noticed, is that in the past 3 years or so, the number of indexed pages from PFF decreased from about 500,000 to 60,000 and I have no clue as to why. PFF used to fill the first page of a Google search on anything fiero related. Nowadays, it's often not even to be found on page 1. Again, no clue as to why. There are still over 40,000 inbound links (other sites that link to a page on PFF), so PFF should still be the most relevant site when it comes to Fiero information. No other Fiero site even comes close to that number of inbound links.
I will add the canonical link to the printable pages.
PFF used to be the #1 google search result for the keyword "fiero" (last time I checked which was a few years ago). Now, the first mention of PFF is on page 4!!!
Wow. If you search for "Pontiac Fiero", the first mention of PFF is on page 11...
No wonder the number of visitors have declined so much over the years.
Any SEO specialists here that have any clue as to why PFF nowadays ranks so low?
Just a few tips. Get rid off the styles out of the head. Minimise the java as there is a lot of it. Get rid of the tables and make the site fully responsive. Those 4 changes will make a big difference. Get a secure certificate. I have my works site ranking number 1 and most of my old clients as well.
The short answer? Yes. The long answer? No. Let me explain that. 😁
Clicking on a banner will generate a small amount of money for me. So in the short term that indeed generates a little bit of income. But google also keeps track of conversion rates. So if people start clicking banners randomly, but never buy something from the sites they visit, google assumes PFF is worthless for conversions and its ad ranking will drop tremendously. That means that only the low paying ads will be served on PFF and pretty soon ad income will drop to virtually nothing.
So, sure, click on a banner if it's for something you are truly interested in. If that eventually leads to a sale for the advertiser, that's when I really start to benefit. PFF's ad ranking will rise and advertisers will pay more to have their ads shown on PFF.
Cliff mentioned that his Fiero is not being driven and is in danger of being sold or taken? Maybe we can have a separate project to "sponsor Cliff's Fiero", with the money going to help him keep his car??
Cliff, could you elaborate on what your Fiero needs to stay in your hands?
Cliff mentioned that his Fiero is not being driven and is in danger of being sold or taken? Maybe we can have a separate project to "sponsor Cliff's Fiero", with the money going to help him keep his car??
Cliff, could you elaborate on what your Fiero needs to stay in your hands?
I believe the archived collection of the forum is worth its weight in gold. However a collection of 1's and 0's probably doesn't weigh a whole hell of a lot. If there is a way to purchase the 30GB as a download, with a pay wall between you and the download, I would gladly fork over $100USD minimum, to have on file should the forum shut down.
Maybe add a section for product reviews where people could post products that they found on amazon or ebay, and in the url add an affliate id so that if the review generates a sale you would get a small percentage. I bet even sites like rockauto or the fiero store would be willing to set something up with you too.
My final advise Cliff is that if you wish to start a clickable box ad section, you will need to aggressively go after advertisers like buy 6 months and get one free. Companies like Rock Auto, Auto Zone and of course the Fiero Store have money to spend as do many posters here that run side businesses. I would say keep the adds reasonable for clubs and forum members who sell as a sideline and hopefully get most of the revenue from the big corporations. As a side note, the reason that the Fiero Forum doesn't show up on Googles first page of a search is because its not random. Google charges companies a fee to prioritize search results.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
It sounds like a funny question, but would more use of the site be what can solve the problems? Because it would in turn tentatively end with more ad clicks and more donations?
If lack of visibility is indeed a barrier. I suggest marketing directly at competition for users, which is facebook. There are many many Fiero groups on facebook, and its just "trendier", with more instant feedback for (younger?) users.
I recommend find things that we have here that facebook doesn't, and advertise them on facebook. With links directly here of course. (Not paid ads, just posts that can be shared) For example some of the great "how to's". The historical records of peoples write ups and questions answered, that is PFF. Generate some kind of original PFF content that can be shared? An article? Just some ideas.
If you would like help getting the info out there on FB, I can help, as I am pretty involved with Midwest Fiero Clubs.
One thing we can all do, those of us who are also on FB, is when someone asks a how to question or posts a problem they are having on FB. Reply to it with a link to a post on PFF that addresses the problem. That advertises PFF directly as well.
) 
because your’s and this forum’s reputation are being used to THEIR advantage.... they could hand over the page or close if they were honest on why they called their page with YOUR name.... it’s time for them to pay the Ferryman...
Why does it do that?
Had to look it up 
