I wanted to share. Many of us know that old cars get old. I am looking into this as an option to my old and sadly expired extinguisher.





Edit:

Thinking out loud here. I am a General Contractor, and my tool kit consists of a large roller bag with everything that I use daily. I keep a fire extinguisher in my truck for emergencies, but that could be minutes away. I am buying a stick for my roller. How convenient and much quicker.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 07-27-2018).]

The demo would have been a lot better on selling the product IF they actually put out a fire.

I am not claiming anything by this company. I am researching.

Found a car fire ad/video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwzZJInS40g

https://elementfire.com/
Cost is high, $59.95 for the small 25 second unit, JL had bigger $79.95 unit I think.
But Read FAQ and PDF on faq page...
Ignition is same as Flares? Having used many flares and many 1-5 or more years in a vehicle failed to ignite because igniter cap, spot on the the flare or both is bad.
Big issue is No UL/DOT/USCG certs so won't meet US laws/rules requiring an extinguisher. Commercial and boats will needs certified extinguishers.

In a car fire might work but wind can blow it away before does so outside.
IE Sim problems using CO2 and other gas based extinguishers outside.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

Now thats pretty damn cool Im getting the 50 second unit but will have a regular somewhere to look cool. I like that it doesnt go bad. Regular extinguisher has an off/let go o the lever and I think better range. If the fire was crazy hot n big u couldnt get close to make a difference w the flare. Get both! lol

shem

Didn't take long for "someone" to come in and start the whole DOT debate...... AGAIN!

It does look impressive to say the least. This video is certainly staged, and not the same as a car fire with burning wire, rubber, plastics and such. Looks like they probably ignited some fuel oil / diesel or something on top of everything and then lit it.

On another note, you would have to hold your hand pretty damn close tot he fire to use this. I think they should add an extension rod, think magnetic tool for when you drop parts, or an old portable radio antennae. I bought a selfie stick that extends to almost 3 feet, and it was $0.99 cents on WISH with $1 shipping. So, they could be made very cheaply in bulk.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 07-28-2018).]

I would like to see this product used on a raging auto gasoline fire. First off its way overpriced for a cardboard road flare size smoking device. Secondly its an unproven tool. Finally regular fire extinguishers shoot out their contents under high pressure. This device send the smoke at at very low pressure. I am not impressed and I never worry about D.O.T. ratings.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

So far I have had a difficult time finding trustworthy reviews. I am not counting it out as it seems to be a new thing. There was mention of it's chemical use in NASA and the whole safe to breath claim that needs to be convinced.

I found it to be interesting. I plan on keeping an eye on it. My extinguisher is expired. No doubt about it. I found this by subscribing to Jay Leno's channel on Youtube.

I am watching where this goes...

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: Didn't take long for "someone" to come in and start the whole DOT debate...... AGAIN!

Element Fire started this point on the FAQ page but you like many others can't bother to read their own site.

quote IS ELEMENT CERTIFIED? Originating in Italy, Element has been certified in Europe by CE and TUV (in addition to other international certifications). Currently within North America, Underwriters Laboratories (UL) does not yet have a testing standard written from which to certify Element. For this reason Element cannot be used to substitute extinguishers in regulated environments that require a UL (or UL endorsed) certification. Element however can freely be used as a supplemental extinguisher in these environments and as a primary extinguisher where there is no regulation (car, home, personal garage, etc.)

CE and TUV means Nothing for US Businesses and Boat owners/operators. They can be fined or shutdown w/o correct and inspected fire control equipment. CE and other certs mean very little in many places to many people beyond that. Whatever Patents, SEMA and other "awards" mean nothing expect to fool idiots. US and Other gov's Patent nearly anything regardless works or not. USPTO alone have Millions of Patents for quack medical and crap fire/security products because is NOT their job to see if they work or is safe while raking in a Huge amount of Money.

Same or similar garbage use by First Alert Tundra and many others. Tundra claim to be tested "by an independent national lab" but is not a UL listed extinguisher and Expires in 2-3 years from date of manufacturer. Others like BlazeCut in Too Many Fires, may have "Foreign Cert's" listed for some things but sold for "off label use" by third parties in the US to people without a clue not made to handle engine bay temps in many vehicles not just Fiero. BlazeCut may work well or not but you won't see it in many US Businesses etc because has no UL/DOT/USCG certs.

quote Originally posted by theogre: ...

To make this clear, I am not a salesman for this new product. It is something that I have found mild interest in, and nothing more. I posted more toward entertainment and perhaps an avenue for learned activity.

quote Originally posted by theogre: Element Fire started this point on the FAQ page but you like many others can't bother to read their own site. ...

Before I go losing my mind here, I have to ask you several questions Orge. Do you believe me to be daft? Am I one that "can't bother to read"?

There really is no reason to belittle anyone here in General. Come on over to O/T for that if you would. I would be more than a willing participant. And I will not even let my appreciation for your gifts here hinder my response.


Edit:

I did not get to your next post. Well, I made it...

quote Originally posted by theogre: ... IOW Is just a Canadian Distributor maybe w/ US office for http://www.fss-esp.com that "scammed" JL and you.

Huh? Smooth Orge is smooth. I am "scammed" out of nothing. You should be quiet from here on out.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 07-29-2018).]

While we are on the topic of Ogre:

Why do you come into threads and consistently SPILL useless information, and go off on tangents to try to "enlighten us". We are not as dumb as you portray everyone to be, and most certainly we CAN read.

Looking at your posts in this thread Re: a new fire retardant system you just go crazy with useless information and weird tangents to be honest! From mentioning medical quacks, boat ownership, under writer laboratories, failed smoke detectors, failed CO2 extinguishers, US certifications, Foreign Certifications, and tons of other just useless facts.

You have done this in EVERY thread pertaining to just about anything on our cars. You come into the thread spewing the DOT regulations, federal laws, state laws, local laws, international laws, county laws, and on and on. This happens EVERY TIME! someone mentions something we can use for our car. ANYTHING from tail lights, fog lights, LED replacement bulbs for the dash, for the front, side, and rear, reflectors, side mirrors, rear view mirror, headlight bucket alterations, headlight housing alterations, 3rd party window glass, exhaust modifications, engine swaps..........and on and on and on and on and on and on.

EVERY time something is mentioned, we do not need schooled about every federal, local, state, and now foreign laws. We do not need to be told we can not read, and we do not need to be told that we (and Jay Leno in this case) have been scammed!!!!!!!

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: While we are on the topic of Ogre: Why do you come into threads and consistently SPILL useless information, and go off on tangents to try to "enlighten us". We are not as dumb as you portray everyone to be, and most certainly we CAN read. Looking at your posts in this thread Re: a new fire retardant system you just go crazy with useless information and weird tangents to be honest! From mentioning medical quacks, boat ownership, under writer laboratories, failed smoke detectors, failed CO2 extinguishers, US certifications, Foreign Certifications, and tons of other just useless facts. You have done this in EVERY thread pertaining to just about anything on our cars. You come into the thread spewing the DOT regulations, federal laws, state laws, local laws, international laws, county laws, and on and on. This happens EVERY TIME! someone mentions something we can use for our car. ANYTHING from tail lights, fog lights, LED replacement bulbs for the dash, for the front, side, and rear, reflectors, side mirrors, rear view mirror, headlight bucket alterations, headlight housing alterations, 3rd party window glass, exhaust modifications, engine swaps..........and on and on and on and on and on and on. EVERY time something is mentioned, we do not need schooled about every federal, local, state, and now foreign laws. We do not need to be told we can not read, and we do not need to be told that we (and Jay Leno in this case) have been scammed!!!!!!!

The Ogre is just as entitled to participate in the open exchange of ideas and express his opinions as everyone does. Quite frankly I feel sorry for the compliners as this intolerable attitude is not conducive to having a good marriage, partnership or happy life.. We can all disagree, call out dishonesty, but it is not up to anyone to pass judgement on a persons opinion. If you don't like it then don't read it.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I have all here rated with a positive. All here.

I bought one. It will go in my tool dolly. I guess that I will wait for misfortune to let you know of my findings.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: The Ogre is just as entitled to participate in the open exchange of ideas and express his opinions as everyone does. Quite frankly I feel sorry for the compliners as this intolerable attitude is not conducive to having a good marriage, partnership or happy life.. We can all disagree, call out dishonesty, but it is not up to anyone to pass judgement on a persons opinion. If you don't like it then don't read it.

You and I often don't agree on PFF but wow... Don't know what to say but thanks.

Cool product, but it doesn’t seem to have the range of 5lb extinguisher. A well built extinguisher will last as long. Extinguishers that are used in commercial spaces or required by insurance or government regulations require servicing for which this extinguisher wouldn’t work. Also the rating was not discussed. As others have said a live fire demo would have been good. I think this extinguisher has potential but would sill carry a back up.!

[This message has been edited by JohnyWalter (edited 03-14-2019).]

quote Originally posted by JohnWPB: While we are on the topic of Ogre: Why do you come into threads and consistently SPILL useless information, and go off on tangents to try to "enlighten us". We are not as dumb as you portray everyone to be, and most certainly we CAN read.

I honestly think it's a combination of being older and having a stroke. His posts are predictable because we know his triggers and we've seen the same old posts 20 times. I'm happy to have such a knowledgeable resource around, I don't think he's doing it out of any sort of spite or malice, it's just his way of interacting with us.

Good afternoon, guys and gals...

I just came across this thread and was intrigued. A new style of fire extinguisher. It caught my eye.

I do like the idea that it is small and can easily be tucked into the car. I do like that it doesn't expire. I do like that it seems easy to use. I do like that it isn't temperature affected.

Now having said that I don't like the way it works. I do understand the premise that the discharge breaks up the chain reaction of the fire but don't see the continued protection from re-ignition as dry chemical does. When cars burn they usually have a source of ignition that keeps the fire going......burning wires, burning oil, burning something hidden in a pocket. These fire extinguishers do not have the ability to secure the surface of the burning material to prevent re-ignition. These extinguishers seem to dissipate the gas and leave nothing behind and work similar to carbon dioxide but in this case the released gas doesn't replace the oxygen.....just instills enough of the gas to prevent enough oxygen from being present to support combustion. I watched the videos. I saw the gas fire in a bucket get extinguished. I wasn't impressed because the operator had to get very close to that fire to reach in and get the stick close enough to use. That is a very easy fire to put out. Lets see that put out a fire in a 3' x 4' pan.

The advertisement says that it will work on Class A,B,C and K fires. I do not see it working on the burning embers of a Class A fire. Think about a burning campfire log and how the fire burns deep into the material. Or a trash fire where you have multiple layers of paper or stuff. Or insulation in an engine compartment that's burning away. These things are not going to put that out. Class B gas/oil fires can be extinguished in very small areas because of the amount of discharge gas involved. I don't see these things putting out a good fuel leak engine fire. Class C? The discharge doesn't conduct electricity so it would have a Class C rating. Class K? No way. The discharge is a gas and dissipates. Class K fires require a foaming agent to provide a layer of foam on the hot grease to prevent a re-flash.

My assessment? I think it's a gimmick. I would recommend not having these as your sole protection for your vehicle or shop. If you have the perfect circumstance then you might be able to use it. The slightest breeze will keep it from working properly. A standard fire extinguisher offers you some basic protection from the fire because you have to stand away from the fire to use the extinguisher......usually 8-10 feet is your starting point. You have to get closer once you start discharging but with the stick you have to really reach right next to the fire itself. I'm not a fan of standing that close to a fire to try to put it out.

What makes my comments worth anything? Well, I'm offering my thoughts as a fire extinguisher professional. I've been maintaining, servicing and recharging fire extinguishers professionally for almost 20 years. I'm an instructor and trainer that provides fire extinguisher training classes for my customers. I provide classroom instruction and live outdoor fires using real equipment. This is what I do.

With all of that being said, I recommend having a real fire extinguisher in your vehicle. I recommend having a real fire extinguisher in your shop. I recommend having real fire extinguishers in your home......one on each floor of your home 5lbs of ABC dry chemical or greater.

If you have any questions I'm happy to answer them.

Mark
Senior Service Technician
Secure Fire and Safety
Milwaukee, Wisconsin