My silver Formula got rear ended a while back, and the underlying frame was bent a little - insurance has declared it a total loss and are offering 3,300 bucks to take it away.
While I love the car, the honest truth is that its been difficult to keep around considering my life circumstance (apartment living, lack of mechanical expertise, street parking only, potential to be moving a lot and already owning another much more useful car). Of course I'd regret getting rid of it forever... but I need to consider my options.
What happens to Fieros after this kind of damage? Is it an automatic parting out/junkyard death sentence, or is there a chance someone else would resell it and put back on the market? Obviously to allow a Formula to be junked after such a relatively minor damage would be a crime. My natural course of action would be to keep the car and repair on my own.
I'm an auto adjuster for the local body shop. Honestly they will give you a by back option which is the salvage price of the vehicle. I don't know about other states but here in MO if its over 10 years old it doesn't effect the title. Salvage title and so forth. That being said you should be able to get a pretty decent price out of what you have left. If you do decide to let the insurance take it. then it will probably end up on COPART the salvage auction, or something of equivalent. If you have any other questions about the process feel free to message me.
[This message has been edited by AWautoworks (edited 08-15-2017).]
Yeah, in California you will get a salvage title. I figure this isnt an enormous issue; if anyone wants to buy in the future it's apparent what happened. The car is roughly below average condition (bad paint, typical ripped seats and scratches, interior warping etc, some minor oil leaks) but less than 100,000 miles and a smooth running engine. I had the transmission replaced and repaired using a Rodney Dickman kit in 2015. I just received the valuation report: they want to give me 2,950 for it. I'm noticing that the referenced "comparable" Fiero's are all iron duke base models (they got the year correct though), and have asked for this to be amended. This should be easy to argue... I hope.
My own insurance is paying, other driver was under-insured. They waived the deductible.
[This message has been edited by rednotdead (edited 08-15-2017).]
I was hit by a car that slid along the curb and then rammed my back-end...Luckily, their big chrome bumper(1978-9 T-Bird) slid UNDER my bumper and hit the trunk...The trunk was badly damaged but the bumper backup was straight.....just around the corner is Nelson's body shop...I am friends with the owner/manager...He checked it out and agreed with my assessment......Just the trunk box and rear bumper cover had been damaged.
My insurance had an adjuster look at it and he tried to total it..."Frame bent".....Seriously, you could lie underneath and see that the frame was straight! So I called my insurance agent and explained it......She sent another adjuster to look her over and I received a check for $1000...I gave Nelson's $400 to straighten the trunk and am now scooping for a '85 SE bumper cover with the dual exhaust cuts.....
Get someone who knows frames and understands that the car is basically a collectors item (And your baby!) and have them check it out...that doesn't look that bad...and most adjusters don't understand how tough the Fiero is....
Someone in the club up here got in an accident that crushed his car so bad that he had to be cut out of it. After haggling with insurance I believe he got around $6000 for it once they started looking at gt and formula comparables and added in some for the engine swap. His had a 3400 and and he was able to get it back to sell.
take it to a body shop if it still drives and get a quote for a frame pull.. I'd tell them you want what they offered you in money and the car back or you want more for the car.. That doesn't look like that bad of a hit..
Total then god knows what will Happen. Yes Total Cars can get crushed but often not and sold at auction. Insurance want best money for "junk" cars and scrap prices are low in many places.
Get a real body shop to estimate true damage. Not an adjuster that just looks and often total for all cars over 5-10 years old. But note that if true damage is less and Body Shop report to insurance then insurance can/will lower payout. Go to shop and don't say insurance involved. (Many shops will change you for this.)
If you fix it... or sell to fix... You can fight the total and means you keep the clean title.
Salvage Title can be harder to much harder to get on the road then just a Red Mark on Carfax etc. Depending on State... At Special Inspection to clear the car for street again, You often required to have much more proof that every part is not stolen. Worse: Starting for Model Year 87, Every body panel and more are all VIN marked and just one part mismatched or missing tag can get fail w/o proof you bought it legal. This means just 1 Lost receipt for P&P yard for whatever part installed years ago could be a big problem now.
Note that the plastic crush pack and metal it attaches to... the metal is bolted to car's frame by 4 bolts. metal that "plastic" is "riveted" to only bolts to car too. See https://nemiga.com/cat_spar...c/22p-p/07/2p07-006/
My insurance had an adjuster look at it and he tried to total it..."Frame bent".....Seriously, you could lie underneath and see that the frame was straight! ...that doesn't look that bad...and most adjusters don't understand how tough the Fiero is....
I didn't realize you could see the frame from underneath - maybe I'll have a look tomorrow then. The reason we figured frame damage was because the trunk latch has shifted slightly out of position despite there being no immediate impact point nearby, interfering with smooth operation of the decklid
@theogre Thanks for the advice, I'll think it over. The salvage title does seem like a real hassle...
I didn't realize you could see the frame from underneath - maybe I'll have a look tomorrow then. The reason we figured frame damage was because the trunk latch has shifted slightly out of position despite there being no immediate impact point nearby, interfering with smooth operation of the decklid
@theogre Thanks for the advice, I'll think it over. The salvage title does seem like a real hassle...
Would you buy or drive a 64-72 muscle car that has been restored? You would not think twice, yet people go nuts when an old car that 1000 bucks will total, gets fixed, and had a salvage title.. honestly every restored car should have one.
I didn't realize you could see the frame from underneath - maybe I'll have a look tomorrow then. The reason we figured frame damage was because the trunk latch has shifted slightly out of position despite there being no immediate impact point nearby, interfering with smooth operation of the decklid
@theogre Thanks for the advice, I'll think it over. The salvage title does seem like a real hassle...
OK- your impact was from the side, right? That MAY create more problems......But a frame can be straightened.....Get a real body-man to look at it...see what he has to say...If it's too much for your budget/interest, then sell it to a Fiero guy who will take care of it....Only 26,000 88's were built...The best performing Fiero would basically be the 88 Formula...That is (Again, basically) the "Ultimate Fiero".....
CA is one state make you to have all doc's etc... (I thought so but didn't have time to check.) short version...
quote
To re-register a salvage vehicle you will need to have bills of sale for all the major and minor parts used in the reconstruction of your vehicle. Then an application for registration along with a vehicle construction statement will need to be given to the DMV. Revived salvage vehicles are also required to be inspected by the DMV or the California Highway Patrol (CHP) before DMV can issue title and registration.
more google: <state> salvage title like california salvage title
I got rear ended several years ago and while looked bad didn't even break crush pack etc. I fix most damage after insurance saw it in ~ 2hr. Took that long because remove the entire panel to check and needed to remove upper metal to straighten it and where bolted to trunk wall frame. the whole car still needs paint but can't tell car was hit but my "bumper" wasn't torn like above.
more google: <state> salvage title like california salvage title
I got rear ended several years ago and while looked bad didn't even break crush pack etc. I fix most damage after insurance saw it in ~ 2hr. Took that long because remove the entire panel to check and needed to remove upper metal to straighten it and where bolted to trunk wall frame. the whole car still needs paint but can't tell car was hit but my "bumper" wasn't torn like above.
Sell it to someone in a less strict state. Many states don't even have vehicle inspections.
Oh and generally if you don't take the payout from the insurance company and do it all on your own there is no totaling and no salvage title. Your results may vary depending on your state's laws.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 08-17-2017).]
In Nov 1999 a Dodge Neon slid over the line on a wet corner and my 84 Fiero SE was written off for the resulting damage shown in the pic and the suspected damage underneath (that didn't exist).
I certainly wasn't going to part with it for that damage, so the insurance company gave me $1900 which covered professional repair, re-certification & a new set of tires. I re-insured with the same insurance company & am still driving it daily.
Originally posted by David Hambleton: In Nov 1999 a Dodge Neon slid over the line on a wet corner and my 84 Fiero SE was written off for the resulting damage shown in the pic and the suspected damage underneath (that didn't exist). <snip img> I certainly wasn't going to part with it for that damage, so the insurance company gave me $1900 which covered professional repair, re-certification & a new set of tires. I re-insured with the same insurance company & am still driving it daily.
Nice but irrelevant. In the U.S., Car insurance and title rules depend on State you live in. CA and others would rather crush all older cars and make it hard to register a salvage/rebuild vehicle. DMV or State Police can fail recert inspection on a whim. Many people will avoid "Totaling" a car just for this reason. (Even ignoring "Totaling" often means big rate increases.)
When I called I co to report a "wreck" the first thing out of their mouth was total the car. Even before sending adjusters or getting shop estimates. Again, anything > 5 to 10 years old then they push totaling even for minor damage.
Edit to add--> I'm surprise he got $3000+ to total. Many times your lucky to get NADA low retail value even for much newer cars. Note too that Engine size and trim level often doesn't change value a huge amount. Run a few variable thru NADA to see. Example: 88 base to Formula w/ no options check difference is < $200 for low retail.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-18-2017).]
When I called I co to report a "wreck" the first thing out of their mouth was total the car. Even before sending adjusters or getting shop estimates. Again, anything > 5 to 10 years old then they push totaling even for minor damage.
Don't call. Repair it yourself or at the body shop of your choice. Pristine title. Problem solved.
Originally posted by theogre: Nice but irrelevant. In the U.S., Car insurance and title rules depend on State you live in.
The info may be of interest to anyone in a similar situation irrespective of their location; and might assist them to achieve a better outcome. Insurance companies are interested in doing the least work and paying the least compensation. It may be possible to negotiate a better settlement. I was offered $1600 and the car was going to the wreckers. I wanted to keep the car & more $; which was the final outcome. Your results may vary depending on your location, applicable laws, your insurance company's cooperation and your ability to influence the process.
Originally posted by jscott1: Don't call. Repair it yourself or at the body shop of your choice. Pristine title. Problem solved.
Do that. Other driver(s) and cops have your data and will contacted your insurance and your I co will call you demanding answers. If they can't reach you or otherwise cause them problems they can making big trouble for you.
Yes you can take money and DIY the repair job as I already said above. You can even take the money and never fix the damage. I co doesn't care who fix the car or not. That's not the issue here.
The problem is Standard Operating Policy for most I co's is to total most cars. They often will pay to fix and not total but you have to get past they want to total most cars. Easier then fixing, more so w/ newer cars w/ SRS. Replacing just airbags was bad when cars only have 2 bags but now your replacing seats, seat belt hardware, and more, when SRS pretension seat belts and deploys several airbags. Example: Side bags deployed wrecks the seats and/or side trim and both are expensive to fix.
Another issue is What does "other driver was under-insured" mean? State sets Minimum Insurance and CA won't allow many discounts. Or does it mean other driver did not have insurance IOW is covered under uninsured motorist section of policy?
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-19-2017).]
Originally posted by David Hambleton: The info may be of interest to anyone in a similar situation irrespective of their location; and might assist them to achieve a better outcome. Insurance companies are interested in doing the least work and paying the least compensation. It may be possible to negotiate a better settlement. I was offered $1600 and the car was going to the wreckers. I wanted to keep the car & more $; which was the final outcome. Your results may vary depending on your location, applicable laws, your insurance company's cooperation and your ability to influence the process.
Yes, You can push back in most states to get a better deal to a point. But When you fight totaling you may get less money.
And When you buy back you need to know local laws and HOA rules because have a wreck car on the property can get you fined, car impounded, etc. Even a good car w/o valid tags can cause same results in many areas.
The problem is Standard Operating Policy for most I co's is to total most cars. They often will pay to fix and not total but you have to get past they want to total most cars.
Every situation is different, and I have never been in an accident that was close to totaling a car, so I admit I don't know all the possible scenarios. But I do know that I would never under any circumstances allow an insurance company to total my car unless the car burned to the ground or was crumpled into an unreparable mess.
The tiny little fender benders I see here where the insurance wants to consider the car a complete loss are ridiculous in my opinion to call the car totaled. I suppose they can cause issues for you with the state but I would take on that battle in a heart beat before I give up my car for that amount of damage. As for SRS with Fieros this is a non-issue.
I provided documentation for repairs and had them redo the price comparison with GT's and Formulas (not base coupes) - and the payout increased to 5,800 (5,200 for buyback) in exchange for receiving the salvage title. I think I'll do the buyback... stupid perhaps but that's a lot of money, and no way am I letting the car be scrapped. I figure anyone still interested in buying a Formula in 2017+ will be less dissuaded by the title - it's clear what happened here and the cars are very old either way.
I have a quote to pull the frame and replace the bumper for about 800 bucks parts and labor. I can do the tail light myself later.
[This message has been edited by rednotdead (edited 08-28-2017).]
Just an FYI. I had my El Camino Rear Ended a while back. Insurance wanted to total, or I could buy back and get a salvage title. In NV, a vehicle with a Salvage title can only be sold to a scrap yard or a dealer ( who then turns around and scraps it).
I did some digging into the statutes, and for an insurance co to total a vehicle in NV, the repair estimate has to be more than 65% of the value of the vehicle, not including any Paint work. In my case, I was able to argue successfully with the insurance co not to total the vehicle, and still got my settlement. It did take a few phone calls, and I had to bump my complaint up to to a supervisor. They had no clue what was in the statute!
It might be worth checking out your state laws....
