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OEM Spring specifications? (1988 ARD 10068654) by SP1200
Started on: 06-15-2017 08:25 PM
Replies: 21 (232 views)
Last post by: SP1200 on 06-20-2017 08:04 PM
SP1200
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Report this Post06-15-2017 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Does anyone know where I can get the specs for the 1988 Front ARD 10068654 spring?

I was absolutely perfect, and now looking at aftermarket springs i have no idea what to select.

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Report this Post06-15-2017 09:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All of the 88 front (and rear) springs were the same rate. They were just different heights, depending upon options.
I know that doesn't specifically answer your question, but maybe it will help. I think Doug Chase posted more specific info, but I don't know where to look for it, after all these years.
Also search fieroguru's threads. He's done a great deal of research and experimentation with the 88 suspension. (It's what he has.)
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Report this Post06-16-2017 09:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050119-2-054238.html

ARD:
Wire diameter: 0.493"
Coil diameter: 3.881"
Free height "S": 12.31"
Active coils (@ free height "S"): 6.94
Active coils (@ height "L"): 6.48
Load @ height "L" (7.87 in): 912.7 lbs
Design rate @ height "L": 205.5 lbs/in

Calculated rate using "free height" active coils: 205.1 lbs/in
Calculated rate using height "L" active coils: 219.6 lbs/in
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Raydar
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Report this Post06-16-2017 04:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
<snip>


Damn. You're good!

Thanks.
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SP1200
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Report this Post06-16-2017 07:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ohh wow!

Thanks Guru.

Damn that was a bit more than I was expecting. lol.

Now does anyone know of an aftermarket replacement?

see..I have an 87, and years ago I was told the 88 spring was a lower stiffer spring, so i got a used set.
Then stupid me thinks it was kool to cutz onez coilz off, and made it to low and wayyy more stiff.

Now i just want the OEM 88 spring back. lol.

I guess i could get some 87 lowering springs?
..but something tells me the 88 spring will be a perfect fit for height and comfort.

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SP1200
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Report this Post06-16-2017 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Humm.

What do you guys think about theses?

http://www.summitracing.com...fc-22200cr/overview/
AFCO Racing AFCOIL Coil-Over Springs 22200CR


I have the AFCO 22275CR's in the rear when I did my coil-overs

Thats 275lbs/In with KYB's Rear
And 200lbs/In with Monrow FRONT

[This message has been edited by SP1200 (edited 06-17-2017).]

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Report this Post06-16-2017 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SP1200:

see..I have an 87, and years ago I was told the 88 spring was a lower stiffer spring, so i got a used set.
Then stupid me thinks it was kool to cutz onez coilz off, and made it to low and wayyy more stiff.

Now i just want the OEM 88 spring back. lol.



Did you cut and relocate the front bump stops? If not, when you installed the 88 front spring with 1 coil removed, you would be riding on the front bump stops which would give you a very firm/bouncy ride.

Cutting 1 coil from an 88 front spring only increases the spring rate about 17% which is barely noticeable as long as you are not hitting the bump stops.
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SP1200
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Report this Post06-16-2017 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ohh yes I remember hitting the bump stops when I had my 87 with 2 coils cut. So I changed to the ARD 88 springs with only one coil cut and 1 inch lowering ball joints (same height) and it seemed to be ok but super stiff on KTB's so i switched to Monrows. That seemed to improve...except it's to low. Scraping on driveways and just annoying. The car is extremely out of alignment so i could be wrong about the comfort. When I put in the ball joints I also had to change the Tie rod ends. So the car has not been aligned since. Now it needs new tires so i figure I'm going to once again address this issue. lol.
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Report this Post06-16-2017 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Paul... Didn't you say that the earlier front GT spring is actually stiffer than than the 88 front? Or is that only when it has been cut? (Or am I mistaken, altogether?)

FWIW, I found my 86 GT front springs, cut by 1.25 coils, to be marginally lower than my 88 front springs, cut by one coil. This, on my 88.

SP1200... I'm running 86 GT springs, cut by 1.25 coils, as mentioned above, on the front of my 88. Stock height balljoints. Monroe Sensatracs. I love the way it rides and handles.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-16-2017).]

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Report this Post06-17-2017 12:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Didn't you say that the earlier front GT spring is actually stiffer than than the 88 front? Or is that only when it has been cut?"

You know. I don't quite remember anymore. This whole process started in 2003. lol.

Is the spring supper stiff when you cut it and it bounces? or is that soft?
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Report this Post06-17-2017 12:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

SP1200

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Member since May 2016
Damn for some reason my summit racing link isnt working. ugh.

http://www.summitracing.co...fc-22200cr/overview/


anyways here a paste of the specs.

Would these work? 200lbs per in?
or should i get 225? Note: I have this exact springs for my rear coil overs at 275 and then work great.


Brand:AFCO Racing
Manufacturer's Part Number:22200CR
Part Type:Coil-Over Springs
Product Line:AFCO Racing AFCOIL Coil-Over Springs
Summit Racing Part Number:AFC-22200CR

Coil-Over Spring Inside Diameter (in): 2.625 in.
Coil-Over Spring Inside Diameter (mm): 66.68mm
Coil-Over Spring Outside Diameter (in): 3.625 in.
Coil-Over Spring Outside Diameter (mm): 92.08mm
Coil-Over Spring Length (in): 12.000 in.
Coil-Over Spring Length (mm): 304.80mm
Progressive Rate Spring: No
Coil-Over Spring Rate (lbs/in): 200 lbs./in.
Spring Finish: Chrome plated

[This message has been edited by SP1200 (edited 06-17-2017).]

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Report this Post06-17-2017 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Paul... Didn't you say that the earlier front GT spring is actually stiffer than than the 88 front? Or is that only when it has been cut? (Or am I mistaken, altogether?)


The stock rate with stock length on the 84-87 springs is slightly higher than the stock spring rate of the shorter 88 springs. However, the wire thickness and coil diameter of the 84-87 front springs will result in a higher spring rate vs. the 88 when the overall length is the same. This is why using the 84-87 front springs cut down works well in the front of the 88's and gives you a 250 to 300 spring rate depending on how much you cut.
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Report this Post06-17-2017 09:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SP1200:

ohh yes I remember hitting the bump stops when I had my 87 with 2 coils cut. So I changed to the ARD 88 springs with only one coil cut and 1 inch lowering ball joints (same height) and it seemed to be ok but super stiff on KTB's so i switched to Monrows. That seemed to improve...except it's to low.


The 88 front springs are about 1 inch shorter than the 84-87 front springs. So if you cut 1 coil off the 88 springs, the new spring length is about the same as when you cut the 87 spring by 2 coils, but with a lower spring rate. If you didn't cut and relocate the bump stops, you are almost certainly resting on them with this setup.
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Report this Post06-17-2017 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Guro when you say "Coil diameter: 3.881" " Is the the ID of the springs?\
Because im looking to get some some aftermarket springs AFCO springs and they say the ID is 2.6 inches..

Also what spring rate for the front end would you recommend for a non coil-over standard front end wiht polly?
Because I have some AFCO 275 lbs per inch springs on the rears with my custom coilovers.
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Report this Post06-17-2017 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SP1200:

Guro when you say "Coil diameter: 3.881" " Is the the ID of the springs?\
Because im looking to get some some aftermarket springs AFCO springs and they say the ID is 2.6 inches..

Also what spring rate for the front end would you recommend for a non coil-over standard front end wiht polly?
Because I have some AFCO 275 lbs per inch springs on the rears with my custom coilovers.


The 3.881" coil diameter is the centerline of the coiled wire, so the actual ID is 3.388". The 84-87 bump stop cylinder runs inside the spring and will limit the minimum spring ID. I don't have the exact diameter of the top of the bump stop cylinder, but I am pretty sure it is larger than 2.6"... something around 3.25" to 3.5" is more likely.

As for the front spring rate, that is entirely a personal choice. Some think the stock spring rate is too high, others run springs in the 400 to 600 lb/in, and many are somewhere in between. My 88 Fiero has 575 lb/in front springs and 425 lb/in rear springs and I daily drive it all the time. I like it, but need to get the shocks/struts re-valved.
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Report this Post06-17-2017 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ok well im still trying to use the options on summit racing to find a set of springs. but having a hella of a hard time.
Are all suspension springs now just called "Coil-Over Springs"? because anytime I try to search suspension spring in the search box i only get springs for Air suspension.

Looking just at Coil-Over Springs with an ID of 3.5 is a very narrow selection.
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Report this Post06-17-2017 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You might find this more useful.
http://www.moog-suspension-...sal_coil_springs.asp
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Report this Post06-18-2017 03:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm not finding anything at the specs I need. 3.5" x 12" at a rate off around 200lbs per inch.
So I'm still stuck on this issue. Springs seem to be to F**ing complicated.

So I'm thinking at this point rather than getting a Phd in springs I should just remove my Rodney Dickman 1 inch lowering ball joints..
This will make my car (in theory) 1 inch taller but allow me to just keep the 88 ARD...

Or should I still keep trying for a set of springs?
Im feeling overwhelmed. Even with all the great info, it just still seems too hard.
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Report this Post06-18-2017 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Removing the lowering ball joints won't do anything to improve your ride quality as your current spring setup has you riding on the bump stops.

You could start all over with a used set of 84-87 front springs and cut 1 coil from them, but you will still want measure where the bump stops limit suspension travel vs. the tire position to the fender (remove the spring, shock and sway bar link, and install the wheel/tire and raise the wheel until the lower control arm makes contact with the bump stop. Then compare how much clearance is between the fender and tire. You want this to be about 3/8" to maximize suspension travel while still ensuring the tires will not rub the innder fender liner.

Moog 6556 and Moog 6558 are both replacement front springs for the Chevy Chevette, which is what the 84-87 front suspension was based on. Both are listed in the link I sent you with the individual spec with a free height of 13.75" and 14.06" and an overall stock rate of 197 lb/in.
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Report this Post06-19-2017 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for your Help Guro. Sorry if I'm getting cranky. I guess I'm just surprised this is easy for me. lol.

Ok I see the specs for the Moog 6556 at 13.75 inches 197 lb/in rate. So this would be very close the the 84-87 springs.
^ That might work perfect! I won't remove the drop ball joints, I'll just increase the spring height.

I am wanting to address the bump stop issue. is it possible to cut and wend without removing the cross member?
considering you have an experienced welder.

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Report this Post06-19-2017 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here is a thread where the "longer" chevette springs and 1" dropped spindles (similar end result as your 1" lowering ball joints) were used.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...120111-2-110255.html

The bump stop can be cut and welded higher with the crossmember in the car, but you have to remove the springs. How much you need to move it depends on wheel/tire diameter and other mods (like lowering ball joints or dropped spindles). You want to hit the bump stop with about 3/8"clearance between the tire and the inner wheel well. Since you have lowering ball joints, you might need to move the bump stop less than the 3/4" specified in the instructions below.
https://drive.google.com/fi...SnBDVG1zLTVxTWc/view

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 06-19-2017).]

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Report this Post06-20-2017 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SP1200Send a Private Message to SP1200Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ohh wow. Sorry Guro. I realized i had a few threads open in my browser tabs and was getting confused. lol.
You had already posted a link to the mogg 6556 spring thread http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-2-120564.html
but it was on my other post. lol. Sorry for having you repeat yourself. lol. my bad.

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