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A plea for help (important!) by Cliff Pennock
Started on: 04-22-2016 05:45 AM
Replies: 290 (6863 views)
Last post by: zmcdonal on 05-17-2016 05:03 PM
Cliff Pennock
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Report this Post04-22-2016 05:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My apologies for the intrusion, but what I have to ask you is important. Not only for me but for the existence of Pennock's Fiero Forum. It is so important that I have chosen to show you this popup once every few hours so you don't forget.

As you may have noticed, no (Google) ads are being displayed anymore in threads. There used to be one at the top of each thread, and one at the bottom. I know some of you hate ads and think this is a good thing. But I'm afraid this site can't exist without these ads. Not only do they pay the bills for Pennock's Fiero Forum, they actually put some food in the mouths of my family.

Then why are they no longer being displayed? Because the Google bots found a (very) old thread on PFF discussing a subject that is against Google's Program Policy. In this case, it was a thread titled "Pedoph----" (censored here for obvious reasons) and depicted a few images of girls over 18 years old but with the intent of looking much younger.

I removed the thread an appealed Google's decision. This appeal was quickly denied because they said PFF was still in violation. They gave me another link to a thread as example. I looked at the thread and it showed an animated GIF of a young boy looking at a busty lady (the animation insinuated the boy was pleasuring himself).. Apparently, PFF is now under Google's scrutiny and for Google to allow ads again on PFF, they apparently want all inappropriate content removed. But I can't do this alone. I can't go through all the hundreds of thousands of threads on PFF looking for inappropriate content. Thats why I need your help.

If you know of a thread that contains adult content (specifically explicit pictures), please let me know. Here in this thread or through PM. I would appreciate it if you link to the offending post (by right clicking on the link symbol at the top right of a message and copy the link). If at all possible, I will not delete the entire thread, only the offending content. Otherwise, we would loose a lot of great threads.

Googles policy guidelines gives you an idea what they consider adult content.

I know, this sucks. But it's either this or the end of PFF.
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Report this Post04-22-2016 06:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mjnycSend a Private Message to mjnycEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So whjat can I do?
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FIEROPHREK
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Report this Post04-22-2016 06:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROPHREKSend a Private Message to FIEROPHREKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I feel for you. You are between a rock and a hard place. It's funny how a company as big as google can effectively censor and make the internet bow to their wishes. They are very hypocritical. I can go to google and type in a slew of different words and view images that are disturbing, disgusting, and EXTREMELY inappropriate. But that's ok be cause google gets a hit on their sight and all is good.....for them. I'll refrain from posting pictures that could be detrimental to your mission. I'm pulling for you/us to make it through this.

------------------

ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

12.3 is faster than a 13.2

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Report this Post04-22-2016 06:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for trivetClick Here to Email trivetSend a Private Message to trivetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anything we can do to help Cliff.

Also, a PayPal is on the way as well. Who else is helping out?

My GT would not be running today if it wasn't for PFF - and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way!.

------------------
Tim
'87 GT
Med Red Metallic
85K miles
Bay City, MI

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Report this Post04-22-2016 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fgt1988Click Here to Email fgt1988Send a Private Message to fgt1988Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I 100% agree with your approach and vision of the forum- Anything I can do to help ----
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Report this Post04-22-2016 07:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
duplicate post

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-22-2016).]

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Report this Post04-22-2016 07:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

rinselberg

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duplicate post

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-22-2016).]

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Report this Post04-22-2016 07:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

rinselberg

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Hello Cliff,

If Google's bots can find this material, is it possible that someone offers a bot-powered "site cleanup" service that you could engage to help clean up Pennock's..? Not Google itself, I guess, because they would probably have told you about it (?)

I guess this is something you would already know about, but--no stone left unturned.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-22-2016).]

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Report this Post04-22-2016 07:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
If you know of a thread that contains adult content (specifically explicit pictures), please let me know. Here in this thread or through PM. I would appreciate it if you link to the offending post (by right clicking on the link symbol at the top right of a message and copy the link). If at all possible, I will not delete the entire thread, only the offending content. Otherwise, we would loose a lot of great threads.

Googles policy guidelines gives you an idea what they consider adult content.

I know, this sucks. But it's either this or the end of PFF.


Cliff,
As I see it, you've been presented with an impossible task, there is no way you or we can find and delete all of the potential threats. My suggestion would be to wipe the slate clean, especially TOT and begin again. Let's face it, almost all the topics are re-addressed and answered here. It would be a chance to re-energize the forum.

So, I'm seriously suggesting that you "Nuke" the forum. I think we'll all survive and most likely be better off for it.

------------------
Ron

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug

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Report this Post04-22-2016 07:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
p.m. sent..
willing to fish through threads... I put a few ideas in the p.m.
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Report this Post04-22-2016 07:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What do they consider explicit?
I try to be very sure of any pictures I post. That they are old enough and perhaps close to the line not over the line.
I have slowed down my posting as I just haven't had the time.

Take my Dancing girl to the left I think she is appropriate but that is my perspective.

I have removed a couple pictures from this thread but I don't think they were out of line just close.
If you want you can remove the thread if it is causing any issues. Better to be over cautious then not.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/104566.html

Do they also spider PMs because I have had a couple pretty nasty ones from some banned members that I haven't cleaned out.
Accusations made to push my buttons.
There have also been hints in replies to some of my posts but nothing right out and accusing anything or inappropriate language.

I have made it no secret that I like pretty girls. I can also appreciate the beauty of a young lady without it being sexual and I always make sure that is known but out of context who knows.
So remove the thread if it helps. Feel free to remove any or all of my threads in OT if it helps.

Perhaps its time to purge OT and The Trash Can and start over
This is a car forum and perhaps we can all get back to wrenches and leave the wenches alone.

I belong to several Forums that have places that can get wild but they are password protected.
The only way in is an invite and they are not open to public views. These forums have no issues with Google ads.
Lock down OT and The Trash Can and make it only available if the user is logged in.

Just a thought.

But I vote nuke them.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 04-22-2016).]

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Report this Post04-22-2016 07:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jmbishopClick Here to Email jmbishopSend a Private Message to jmbishopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Small recurring payment setup. I would encourage anyone who can afford it to do so, small contributions add up.

[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 04-22-2016).]

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Report this Post04-22-2016 08:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TheDigitalAlchemistClick Here to visit TheDigitalAlchemist's HomePageClick Here to Email TheDigitalAlchemistSend a Private Message to TheDigitalAlchemistEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would rather set up a monthly payment than have to look at ads and have the past erased. And have the site be bothered by Google and have to worry about what people are posting...

How much does it cost to run the forum?
If a bunch of us put in 5 bucks a month, would that be enough?

[This message has been edited by TheDigitalAlchemist (edited 04-22-2016).]

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Report this Post04-22-2016 08:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DanyelClick Here to visit Danyel's HomePageSend a Private Message to DanyelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes I second the notion of wiping OT..... that should clean up alot of krap in there.... a yearly fee for access to this forum is also VERY fine with me .... will keep out all the D.F's out of here ..... let me know what else I can do .... I have friends with bot programming skills will reach out to them to see and get back to you...

regards
Danyel
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Report this Post04-22-2016 08:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero 88Click Here to Email Fiero 88Send a Private Message to Fiero 88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
To say "this sucks" would be a gross understatement. I just finally got a good running clean Fiero specimen and am in the position in my life to actually fix it up. I couldn't imagine trying to do that on my own without this forum. I'm sure we'll all do what we can to keep this place around.
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Report this Post04-22-2016 08:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cheever3000Send a Private Message to Cheever3000Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another vote here for wiping T/OT and starting over. The worst thing about that for me is the computer/phone and other tech advice I find here, but even that is obsolete after about 6 months or certainly after a year. I also like the prepper/survivalist/homesteading threads, but...

Maybe you could have us submit which T/OT threads we want to be saved, and nuke the rest.

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Report this Post04-22-2016 08:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Stubby79Send a Private Message to Stubby79Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Even though I hang out in there, I don't care if it gets nuked. Heck, I don't care if it gets nuked on a regular basis. But I'd think you need somewhere for random things to be shared, otherwise you'll end up with people posting all sorta of off-topic comments in their own threads, or else starting threads in "Fiero only" sections that have nothing to do with it.
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Report this Post04-22-2016 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for henryj53Click Here to Email henryj53Send a Private Message to henryj53Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am new here, in fact just a week, but have gotten some great help in a short time. I would pay a monthly or yearly subscription to keep this up, where else can i find others with some of the same issues with a 30+ year old car. besides if I could not fix the Fiero my wife would go ballistic (is her baby).
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Cliff Pennock
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Report this Post04-22-2016 08:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Cliff PennockClick Here to visit Cliff Pennock's HomePageClick Here to Email Cliff PennockSend a Private Message to Cliff PennockEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I really don't want to erase TO/T. It's only a very small percentage of threads that causes the problems. I also don't like the idea of being dependent on donations. Ads are an easy way of generating income and as long as they aren't very obtrusive, it shouldn't bother anyone.

I'm not asking anyone to actively seek out offending threads and/or images. I'm asking people if they know of one, to alert me.
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Report this Post04-22-2016 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for busa_poweredClick Here to Email busa_poweredSend a Private Message to busa_poweredEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
why cant people just post their fantasies on a different site?
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Report this Post04-22-2016 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am truly sorry to see this happen. I too don't care if you nuke the site and start all over again. But, if I can send money to you to help you keep this forum up and running please let me know how to do that.
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Report this Post04-22-2016 09:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ag9123Click Here to Email ag9123Send a Private Message to ag9123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are most of the suspect posts in one room i.e. "OT"?. Perhaps delete only that room. That may eliminate most of the targeted posts. Just a thought...
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Report this Post04-22-2016 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What the Monte SS forum does is post a thread on the yearly server cost, and people make donations to pay the bill.. one shot for the year.. and the forum owner Paul list all that donated at top of the thread..
iirc last dec. the server cost was 900.oo and it didn't take long with people giving 10-20 bucks..

The team forums (team cheveele/impala/nova/Camaro. put the members screen name in a different color as a thank you for helping keep the lights on..

just ideas
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Report this Post04-22-2016 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

E.Furgal

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I'd make the O/t and TRASH CAN.. only avail to members that are signed in... this way bots can't search them...
as I'm going to guess that the tech/ general chat, mall, and construction forums are not the problem areas
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Report this Post04-22-2016 09:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cliff,

This is messed up.

I'll keep my eyes out; I don't know any off the top of my head...

On that note, if it takes a reasonable monthly donation to keep this forum alive I will more than happily pay it. It's definitely worth it as this is my resourse for everything I do on my Fiero and without it I probably wouldn't have a running Fiero right now.

If you do decide to nuke the forum however, can we pitch in somehow and make a new archive disc so that the long old information is not lost?

------------------
"Discord"
Red 1988 GT under restoration!

Let's Go Mets!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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Report this Post04-22-2016 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ignorant prodigyClick Here to Email ignorant prodigySend a Private Message to ignorant prodigyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i would subscribe if that was an option

this site is an amazing resource... i'd hate to see it go
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Report this Post04-22-2016 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aldan78Click Here to Email aldan78Send a Private Message to aldan78Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would have no problem deleting OT and the trash can. they really have very little to do with our cars. If we do have to get rid of everything and start over would it be possible to archive everything and make it available on disc or for download for a fee? I'm guessing that would be a huge file and maybe not practical, it's just an Idea. there is so much info in here, I would hate to see it all lost. I would prefer this stay an add and freewill donation based, but if it comes down to loosing it or paying for it I would prefer to make a monthly or yearly payment. I can't remember seeing anything questionable but I will keep my eye out.
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Report this Post04-22-2016 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In my opinion, I think the fastest and best way to resolve this is:
1). change the location of the pictures folder. that will break all the links to the threads. then some people could go through the images and move them back.
2.). block external linking of pictures. this would stop people from just slinging something up that you can't monitor. I post pictures this way, but I could easily upload them to PFF.

If Google then stops the ads at some point, you could sort the pictures by date and it would narrow down your search for the inappropriate images. Also it will stop someone from externally linking inappropriate material.

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Modified stock air canister and base to 3.5 inch for 3800na

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post04-22-2016 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't see how Google can go through each and every post and determine what violates their policy. I have been on this forum a long time and cannot recall obscene posts or those that had links to something inappropriate. Occasionally a few personal insults are thrown around but that's it, but when they start with the F*** bomb that's probably against Google policy. On other hobby forums that I am on, you start cursing and you are banned. The discussion on cars, part suppliers, projects and hobbyist interests needs to be kept.
I would start out deleting all posts where members used very foul language and I would guess that in today's world Google is also looking for a high degree of political correctness but where does this end and free speech begin?
Remain confident that the long time members as myself will do their part to see that the forum rules are followed and will watch for and report anything unusual.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post04-22-2016 10:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseClick Here to Email exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Get rid of the off topic imo. This is a car forum. People can go to other sites to cry about trump and obama, especially if it is affecting the car site and pff's very existence !

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 04-22-2016).]

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Report this Post04-22-2016 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for johnt671Click Here to Email johnt671Send a Private Message to johnt671Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is so sad to see happen. This hurts the forum and also the vendors who advertise here. With all the filth on the internet, Google goes after a car forum. I can't help but wonder if someone that's out to get the forum tipped Google off.

Would it be possible to set up a vendor section of the forum that vendors could post in, and do a donation through the buy a beer link to pay for cost to the forum?
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Report this Post04-22-2016 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CavScoutSend a Private Message to CavScoutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What ever is decided on, deleting parts of the forum, yearly subscription plan, etc, I'm good with - as long as this fantastic resource isn't lost.

In the meantime I'm "buying Cliff a beer".

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Report this Post04-22-2016 11:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Being in the censorship business is more of a threat to Google than it is to us. To the extent that Google won't place ads, Google can't sell ads. Accusing customers is a very good way of losing business. As you see in the sentiment above, people will go to great length to avoid patronizing a business that has accused them of an impropriety. It'll probably be easier to replace the Google revenue than submit to their scrutiny. We should all stop using Google for searches.
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Report this Post04-22-2016 12:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It seems we can't get through 5 minutes of our day without being hit with an advertisement for some product or service. Hell, I can't even fill my gas tank anymore without having the pump play commercials. It's out of control.

I pay for Hulu and Netflix every month just to watch TV, I would be willing to pay a membership fee for PFF to keep it up and running. And a site free of advertising would be a bonus. PFF Is too valuable a resource to let it die.

I'm on a couple other sites that require a membership fee to gain full access to all areas of the site, maybe something like that could work here too.

Cliff, ice cold beer coming your way

[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 04-22-2016).]

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Report this Post04-22-2016 12:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Count me in with the vote to just nuke OT an trash can--nuke em long wide and deep.

Reading thru Google's policy guidelines it's obvious there is a LOT of content on PFF (and OT in particular) that would fit their taboo list, tho it doesn't take much at all to fall in to their taboo definitions. I suppose, even posting a youtube link, that has blurred/censored out content would also fall in that category, as well as pictures that have blurred out intimate areas.

Cliff, a couple of questions:
Do the search bots also look into images saved in each member's PIP history?
If so, then we each need to make sure we don't have any images in history that may invoke their attention.
Using PFF's search function, is there a way to search for a image by file name if we know the file name?

For years, Cliff has had a set of posting rules--one in particular is routinely either ignored or violated, both in the text body of posts and even in thread titles in OT.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/postingrules.html
 
quote
The forum software automatically censors some 4-letter words (and even some 5- and 6-letter words). Don't try to circumvent it. We all know what you mean with "you svck" (actually, "suck" isn't censored of course, but you get my point).


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maryjane
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Report this Post04-22-2016 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cliff,
The following archived thread would probably fit the criteria for total deletion.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-6-067934.html
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post04-22-2016 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Cliff,
The following archived thread would probably fit the criteria for total deletion.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-6-067934.html


This.....
Didn't even think about that thread. BIH
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E.Furgal
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Report this Post04-22-2016 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
if Cliff makes the trash can and o/t only read able to members that are logged in.. then the bots can not crawl those area's...
that is the fastest and easiest way to kill the problem and from it rearing it's ugly head down the road..
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TK
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Report this Post04-22-2016 12:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/1348688

I think this is their content rules. Not a chance of OT meeting the standard.
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MidEngineManiac
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Report this Post04-22-2016 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TK:

https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/1348688

I think this is their content rules. Not a chance of OT meeting the standard.


Not a chance in HELL of me ever meeting that standard....I think I have just about everything besides the drugs covered.
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