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What ever happen to all the Fiero Clubs? by RotrexFiero
Started on: 12-28-2015 04:27 PM
Replies: 118 (1568 views)
Last post by: 2.5 on 01-04-2016 10:35 PM
tshark
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Report this Post12-29-2015 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Odd thing. Lots of young people don't drive or have a license.

It's hard for a family man to justify having a 2-seater. Most of my life I've had trucks, vans, or SUVs, and they were often full.

I'd rather have 50s music than rap.
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Report this Post12-29-2015 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by Threedog:

It really is sad. I bet I am one of the few on here under 25..

Car culture in general has shrunk a lot for my generation. People at college age and around just are not interested in cars. There are a bunch of reasons.

-Urban living is popular, living in the downtown areas of major cities car ownership can be a pain.
-We grew up with rising gas prices and global warming, so there a lot more environmentally conscious kids that see cars as socially irresponsible
-There is less money, cars are expensive and the average american is at an all time low in terms of income(well, since the 20s..)
-College is expensive, hard justify a $5000 "Toy" when your are thousands of dollars in debt


I love cars, and I know a few others who do, but I was only able to own a Fiero because my dad has a garage and was willing to help me. I have had to give up a lot of other things to own this car, and I don't blame those with a little interest who see it as way too much.



You have it pretty right. There is just so many other things that kids are into today.

In the 80's and even farther back our cars were our cell phone and internet. This is how we met people and how we communicated. We also used our cars as our ID but today it is your internet name.

What many people forget is the car was a very social thing. Today it is all electronic and with come of the cars out can you blame them?

I know I was in high school and Collage I have had 2 cars or more since I was 16. At one time I had a clean 1970 Monte Carlo, A tunnel Rammed 68 Chevelle SS that was my show car and also a GMC Sprint SP [El Camino SS of GMC} all at one time and all were pristine. I made money on them when I sold them but not as much as I could make today. There were only a few hundred of the GMC and they go for over $30K today. I paid $2000 for it and it was from Tennessee.

To be honest we all used cars to make money too. We bought them right and sold them often for twice as much. I never had a car payment till the mid 90's, I even paid cash for my Fiero new and my S10 a few years later. Cars were cheaper and flipping cars was profitable. You would have a hard time doing that today.

It just pisses me off on this global warming crap they beat into the heads of the young. Present your case and let them decide. Today if you do not agree with it all you are vilified.

Like with everything else there is some truth to Global Warming but also a lot of BS as there are a lot of people who have turned it into a industry. They are making a lot of money off of it at our expense and not all of it is honest. Sorry for the rant but it just gets to me at times. I want clean air but I also know there is a lot of sh*t and shineola tucked into this too.

Just read up on the emissions testing in Ohio. Only a couple counties have it even though the air is shared with all counties in Ohio. They put in a company that many of those who voted in the testing had invested in. Now they say it is free but they are paying it with the money they got from the cigarette lawsuits the states won. Instead of fixing the roads and bridges this money is going to the company that many of the politicians invested in and then chose to do the testing.

That is why I get mad.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 12-29-2015).]

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quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


You have it pretty right. There is just so many other things that kids are into today.

In the 80's and even farther back our cars were our cell phone and internet. This is how we met people and how we communicated. We also used our cars as our ID but today it is your internet name.

What many people forget is the car was a very social thing. Today it is all electronic and with come of the cars out can you blame them?

I know I was in high school and Collage I have had 2 cars or more since I was 16. At one time I had a clean 1970 Monte Carlo, A tunnel Rammed 68 Chevelle SS that was my show car and also a GMC Sprint SP [El Camino SS of GMC} all at one time and all were pristine. I made money on them when I sold them but not as much as I could make today. There were only a few hundred of the GMC and they go for over $30K today. I paid $2000 for it and it was from Tennessee.

To be honest we all used cars to make money too. We bought them right and sold them often for twice as much. I never had a car payment till the mid 90's, I even paid cash for my Fiero new and my S10 a few years later. Cars were cheaper and flipping cars was profitable. You would have a hard time doing that today.

It just pisses me off on this global warming crap they beat into the heads of the young. Present your case and let them decide. Today if you do not agree with it all you are vilified.

Like with everything else there is some truth to Global Warming but also a lot of BS as there are a lot of people who have turned it into a industry. They are making a lot of money off of it at our expense and not all of it is honest. Sorry for the rant but it just gets to me at times. I want clean air but I also know there is a lot of sh*t and shineola tucked into this too.

Just read up on the emissions testing in Ohio. Only a couple counties have it even though the air is shared with all counties in Ohio. They put in a company that many of those who voted in the testing had invested in. Now they say it is free but they are paying it with the money they got from the cigarette lawsuits the states won. Instead of fixing the roads and bridges this money is going to the company that many of the politicians invested in and then chose to do the testing.

That is why I get mad.



Lorain is one of the few....
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quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

Today if you do not agree with it all you are vilified.


LOL

Is there a way I can put this in a signature line?

Although I would also add in there "the status quo" or "follow the leader" or something else with the same effect.

Getting back to the topic, I guess with all the car clubs, both local and national, that I belong to perhaps I just haven't landed that one where everyone sits around the campfire and sings Kumbaya.
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quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

Well the old school rules as they provide the most or largest crowds that attend shows. Kind of mob rules.

Because of that I went back to my old hang out last summer and it was mostly old guys in their 70's with the same cars as 25 years ago sitting around bench racing. There were only a few of us 50 and younger. It was kind of sad as who will replace them in 10-15 years?

As for younger two problems. There not as many younger people interested anymore. Second the ones that are have a difficult time affording much anymore. Even the most exciting cheap cars are no longer cheap. In my time we could buy old GTO and SS Chevelles all day for $2,000 in really good complete shape with only 60K-75K miles.

Today $2K buys nothing. Even on old early 80's Cutlass or Malibu are out there but if they are in worth while shape they can run you $7K-10K and finding replacement interior parts is difficult.

Camaro and TA models from the 80's van be found reasonable. but often they need work as most were driven hard and put away wet. I saw a nearly new Z/28 from the 80's the other day with low miles for $12K. Nice original car but even it is out of reach of a kid with a part time job in school.

It is a shame but kids today want video games and Cell Phone more than they want a cool car. There are still some that want the car but not like they used to. This is what you get for rising kids in a Civic.

My Dad got a new Chevelle every year for many years and I just loved it growing up. Mom loved the Limited slip and the 3:42 gears. She was the hot rodder.



well I can't totally agree
in the "ole school" most of the drivers never showed up at shows as they got laughed off the show field while the old guard waxed on paint that had not seen sunlight since the last show a few months ago.
2) cars for the hobby have never ever been cheap, sure the buy in for that worn out pos to get you started was cheaper but they also needed everything you paid good money for a clean rust free car even back then, sure it wasn't 12 grand, but 1500.00 back then was a lot of money for a person making 2.95 an hour or less.
3)the car hobby, has always gone like this for 90% of the people, have a hot car, start a family, car gets sold or parked, then in 15 -20 years they come back as they have some cash to play with, but really, the last 25 years the car hobby was financed by the home and people refi and taking money out, that ship sailed
4)driving!!!!!! lets face it, isn't what it was even as late as the 90's, rules are tighter, laws are the same but fines are much taller and police more willing to ticket you over a warning or a fix it.
5) emission testing, cars that are cheap that you'd start with in many places need to pass,
6) lack of vendors that moved up the latter, most that service the "muscle cars" have not tooled up for the 80's and up cars..
7)lack of rear drive cars to start with..

There are tons of younger guys/gals in the hobby, but they drive non flashy cars, as they have to as johnie law is all to eager to make a "car persons" life hell..
They are on facebook with those phones and they have meets they post there, and will have 20 to a few hundred cars show up , they are not formal, and most times just a posting we are going to the h/f lot in __________ town, starting at 5pm be there..

many in their 30-early 40's are waiting, once the kids are gone, they'll like every other generation have some cash for a hobby..

I can't blame kids today for not having an itch for cars, look around, anything they come across is boring to drive, what I mean but that is, even the late 80's cars with no balls, when you gunned it, they felt fast, todays cars are so refined they are faster but don't feel like it, a basic camery is as fast or faster than my 85 t/a was but the t/a lets you know you are in for some fun when you drop the hammer..
even the factory "hot" cars with 400+ hp are guilty of this, to tame, to controlled, take a 250hp car from the 80's or a 300 hp car from the 70's and hammer it, they are brutal, and give you a smile a foot long,
a 2012 mustang or Camaro with the base v8 with 400hp doesn't,
and what I mean is a hot car felt totally different than the family trickster, today does the refined 400+ car drive different than that v6 camery?? not really..

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 12-29-2015).]

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Report this Post12-29-2015 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Threedog:

It really is sad. I bet I am one of the few on here under 25..

Car culture in general has shrunk a lot for my generation. People at college age and around just are not interested in cars. There are a bunch of reasons.

-Urban living is popular, living in the downtown areas of major cities car ownership can be a pain.
-We grew up with rising gas prices and global warming, so there a lot more environmentally conscious kids that see cars as socially irresponsible
-There is less money, cars are expensive and the average american is at an all time low in terms of income(well, since the 20s..)
-College is expensive, hard justify a $5000 "Toy" when your are thousands of dollars in debt


I love cars, and I know a few others who do, but I was only able to own a Fiero because my dad has a garage and was willing to help me. I have had to give up a lot of other things to own this car, and I don't blame those with a little interest who see it as way too much.



That is part of it, but a big part is we are a land of Nazi's now.. ask anyone with a H.O.A. having a project car is allot harder now, as many home owners have to deal with Nazi's that tell them what they can and can do in their own driveway, condo or apartment folks have it even worse..
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quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


That is part of it, but a big part is we are a land of Nazi's now.. ask anyone with a H.O.A. having a project car is allot harder now, as many home owners have to deal with Nazi's that tell them what they can and can do in their own driveway, condo or apartment folks have it even worse..


Lol...my neighbors hate me. I'm in a HOA...**** em...
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quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


That is part of it, but a big part is we are a land of Nazi's now.. ask anyone with a H.O.A. having a project car is allot harder now, as many home owners have to deal with Nazi's that tell them what they can and can do in their own driveway, condo or apartment folks have it even worse..


Wir mussen die autogruppen abschaffen.
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Report this Post12-29-2015 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for busa_poweredClick Here to Email busa_poweredSend a Private Message to busa_poweredEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have read the comments and I think age plays a part.

I tend to hang out at cars&coffee, and there are a lot of younger adults there.

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Report this Post12-30-2015 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RotrexFieroClick Here to visit RotrexFiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to RotrexFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The last time we go together here in Pittsburgh was about 7-8 years ago. Cliff Pennock was in town (he has family here) and there were quite a few people there. It was a lousy day, but memorable. I actually have a picture of Cliff and I together. Very nice guy.

Just from looking over some of the comments there is a lot of truth to what people are saying. For a while there we were as strong, if not stronger (I remember reading the Fiero was one of the most popular cars on the internet), they any of the other car clubs out there. I remember bumping heads with the Corvette guys (there was that story the Fiero was dropped by GM because it was competing with the Vette) and competing with the Miata's at autocross.

I guess because of the short life of the Fiero it is hard to attract in new people.
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I feel much the same. I work with a lot of the generation before me. When I call out the classics to me like risky business and space balls they cant even get through the movie with out being bored to death. I was born into the 80's and my first car I still own it a 1986 fiero gt got it in 1995. I am now 35 have a family and free time to work on an ailing car is sometimes cumbersome but I always love spending time behind the wheel. The generation that I work with like some have said don't even own licenses nor want the responsibility of owning a car. A lot of them saw there parents loose a lot with the crash in 2007--?? to foreclosures and bankruptcies. The fiero is a fun car. plain and simple. We like it because well it is easy to maintain and somewhat reliable. Parts are still plentiful and you can find a nice example for about $5k. The republic of California hates these cars when it comes to people who want to modify or change them to be more eco friendly and years of snow and salt have played heavily on the cars in the rust belt. So many owners hardcore understand querks of these cars. My generation with families need something reliable and little money to enjoy and maintain one. The next generation just want something reliable or very flashy and fast. If you talk to many corvair owners we are now kinda like them parts can be found and are plentiful but the big players have moved on. If you find a niche product being sold you need to buy it when you see it because tomorrow it will not be available. I would say we are at a cross roads of many owners with a 25year or older car. Do I enjoy driving this as much as I enjoy fixing it every other weekend. To me it is still yes but, for my wife it is are you going to the weekend with that stupid car or with me. I only get 2/3 weekends a month due to being a drill status guards man in the air national guard. 1/2 weekends are for house projects and 1 weekend is just for spending time with family and friends. So it is still the question family and friends or car projects. It is true when your family and friends are in the same car club as you it makes the work on the car easier. So even though you like a modified car or a stock car we are all in this together to keep this car culture alive.
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This maybe speculation but car clubs almost have an expiry date due to numbers rego laws and the age of car. Cars older than 25 years can be registered as vintage or hot rod to obtain a discount on registration this can also be done though club memberships. As the fiero is now 25 years old club registration is probably the same as vintage rego so there is no incentive in clubs once cars reach 25 years.
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Report this Post12-30-2015 07:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

Odd thing. Lots of young people don't drive or have a license.

It's hard for a family man to justify having a 2-seater. Most of my life I've had trucks, vans, or SUVs, and they were often full.

I'd rather have 50s music than rap.


I'd rather hear late 70's and 80's rock...
but you made my point.. a car show/cruise should be playing a mix, now if it's a theme type show,, then ya play all the 50's music you want.. but some forget that most that had that music in their youth are 65+ ,
People comment about the car hobby slowing/dieing and wonder why younger people are not there with a car or want to be..
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Originally posted by dobey:


Wir mussen die autogruppen abschaffen.


Feuer mit Feuer bekämpfen , den Golfplatz zu verbieten ihnen
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Report this Post12-30-2015 07:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
That is part of it, but a big part is we are a land of Nazi's now.. ask anyone with a H.O.A. having a project car is allot harder now, as many home owners have to deal with Nazi's that tell them what they can and can do in their own driveway, condo or apartment folks have it even worse..


Must be talking about my neighborhood. The Gestapo gave me a citation for replacing my rear brakes while the car was in my carport, some 30 feet off the street. It was on a weekend, and took about 3 hours because of some parental duties with toddlers. The citation said something about illegal maintenance of an historic vehicle in public view.

 
quote
Originally posted by RotrexFiero:

The last time we go together here in Pittsburgh was about 7-8 years ago. Cliff Pennock was in town (he has family here) and there were quite a few people there. It was a lousy day, but memorable. I actually have a picture of Cliff and I together. Very nice guy.

Just from looking over some of the comments there is a lot of truth to what people are saying. For a while there we were as strong, if not stronger (I remember reading the Fiero was one of the most popular cars on the internet), they any of the other car clubs out there. I remember bumping heads with the Corvette guys (there was that story the Fiero was dropped by GM because it was competing with the Vette) and competing with the Miata's at autocross.

I guess because of the short life of the Fiero it is hard to attract in new people.


Lucky you, got to meet Cliff. The short life of the Fiero probably has less to do with it than the internet, cell phones, changing identities, avoidance of responsibilities, and green brainwashing, as stated above.

 
quote
Originally posted by mmeyer86gt/gtp:
The republic of California hates these cars ...


Here in the United Socialist America, I think the government hates people. Since the Fiero is a car people enjoy, the government hates it, too. Think about it. They want to save the whales, the snails, the trees, the air, etc; but kill people an every opportunity. If something happens to a dog, people are up in arms, but the same people just shrug for the same treatment of a person.

I remember hearing people with a car loan described as a slave to their car, because they couldn't afford to get out of the loan, due to the loan being greater than their salary plus the value of the car, and most of their salary went to pay the minimum due on the loan. Now that's the majority of people. So, most people live hand to mouth, paycheck to paycheck. These people are a tax increase, or a food cost hike, or another round of inflation away from poverty. Worse yet, more and more people are on the public dole, existing on/at the government's whim. Isn't that the definition of slavery? With unemployment rates, and our economy having been exported, is it any wonder we have such a huge debt? But don't worry, the government will steal from those who still have jobs--I mean, they'll raise taxes--um, they'll buy votes--ah-hem, they'll take care of you. Yep, they'll take care of you--like Hannibal Lector would. Whether it's your car, your family, or your job, the government is public enemy #1.

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 12-30-2015).]

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HyperV6, Scott. Right after I was reading this thread my daughter brought me a CD wondering what was on it. We watched it and in the middle was the Chili Cook off at your home. I was amazed how that came up while reading this thread I have all kinds of movies and allot of the clubs old records stored away here. Rick B
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Report this Post12-30-2015 07:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RotrexFiero:


I guess because of the short life of the Fiero it is hard to attract in new people.


It's not that, really.. look around not many nice Fieros out there, and the ones that are people want good money for them..
now hear me out.. Your a guy/gal and you want a fun 2nd car for week ends and cruising, two seater is fine with you so you go looking around..
The mazda many are clean as many were owned by women and males that are women .
Then you have the Toyota and the Honda but you don't want those..
you look at the Fiero the gt looks good, but man that 2.8 is gutless, and for a well cared for one I'm looking at 4500-6000+ one that's got custom work is even more..
Then you research Vette, man you can get an c4 for real short money, a clean 84-87 is 4000.00 +/- 1000.00 and is also gutless but an LSX swap is easy and cheap. all in, for 8 grand you can have a 6.2ls powered 400hp + drives like it's on rails 2 seater..
or buy a Fiero and put a 3800s/c in it and be into it for 7-8 grand or more, or drop a v8 in it and have 10k into a car you'll get 4000 for..
hum back to the vette,, for 8 grand 11 grand if you go all out, you can have a car that can hang with a new 70k + vette..

This is the problem with Fiero's the c4 vettes are silly cheap because the later ones have tons more power.. and it's super easy to swap the engine, open the clam sheel hood and remove it, and you have tons of room, The Fiero, dropping the cradle tho not really hard, isn't something many want to tackle.
I love my Indy but I bought it as I wanted a 4cyl car for a daily, that wasn't front drive, but if I found an 76-80 Monza,sunbird hatch, or the buick or olds of that car I'd have got that, but I didn't .
But if I was looking for a "toy" 2nd car and 2 seats , I'd have a c4 but I already have 2 fun vehicles no need for the fiero to be the 3rd,
Lack of parts don't them any favors either, A kid that wants a fun car to drive, it will be their only car, waiting on parts gets old when you're forced to walk everytime for a few days because the local parts houses don't have any parts in stock for them..
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Report this Post12-30-2015 08:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tshark:

Must be talking about my neighborhood. The Gestapo gave me a citation for replacing my rear brakes while the car was in my carport, some 30 feet off the street. It was on a weekend, and took about 3 hours because of some parental duties with toddlers. The citation said something about illegal maintenance of an historic vehicle in public view.




If I had to deal with that, I'd reply to that citation, with a copy of the right to know law, and ask whom reported you.. if they won't tell you then you reply then if no one called it in, then you have no citation..

I'd be admint and want the name of the person.. Then I'd go talk to them, asking how you working on your car affects them, other than a very small person on a power trip..
These assholes don't know what a home is, they see their house as just a place to shower and sleep,

it is sad that people, your neighbors have nothing better to do that snap a photo of a person working on their own car..

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Pennocks is like a club. A lot of people know each other by name (or stagename), some are well liked and respected by all, some are "misunderstood" and stir the pot any chance they get. The web keeps everyone from getting in a fist fight... Has there ever been a Pennocks National get together - or perhaps regional? That would be a fun annual or semi annual event and draw enough people to make it very interesting.

------------------
84/87 NB, 3800SC, E-85, VS Cam, 2.8 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 1/4 mile -11.85 at 114mph

[This message has been edited by DimeMachine (edited 12-30-2015).]

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Report this Post12-30-2015 08:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ive seen many car clubs come and go. They are a big deal when first formed because of the novelty. A group of us 'new' Hemi LX cars started with lot of enthusiasm, and a lot of big shows. Didnt last 2 years...and that was long by local standards. Most local clubs are Corvette clubs, sponsored by dealers. There are at least 5 now in columbus. Each has its own clique, like all black owners, all high performance models, all C7, etc. Theres no real longevity in any club here I know of and I do several shows a week in season. Im sure I could find an exception or two though.
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quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
If I had to deal with that, I'd reply to that citation, with a copy of the right to know law, and ask whom reported you.. if they won't tell you then you reply then if no one called it in, then you have no citation..


Not a neighbor. The citation is usually stuck to your door with the name of the issuing person and the section in violation. They mail mine, though. They're not supposed to cross the property line, and I found this guy in my back yard. It was the code enforcement asshat--I mean officer. He found easier victims in another neighborhood.
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quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
well I can't totally agree
in the "ole school" most of the drivers never showed up at shows as they got laughed off the show field while the old guard waxed on paint that had not seen sunlight since the last show a few months ago.
2) cars for the hobby have never ever been cheap, sure the buy in for that worn out pos to get you started was cheaper but they also needed everything you paid good money for a clean rust free car even back then, sure it wasn't 12 grand, but 1500.00 back then was a lot of money for a person making 2.95 an hour or less.
3)the car hobby, has always gone like this for 90% of the people, have a hot car, start a family, car gets sold or parked, then in 15 -20 years they come back as they have some cash to play with, but really, the last 25 years the car hobby was financed by the home and people refi and taking money out, that ship sailed
4)driving!!!!!! lets face it, isn't what it was even as late as the 90's, rules are tighter, laws are the same but fines are much taller and police more willing to ticket you over a warning or a fix it.
5) emission testing, cars that are cheap that you'd start with in many places need to pass,
6) lack of vendors that moved up the latter, most that service the "muscle cars" have not tooled up for the 80's and up cars..
7)lack of rear drive cars to start with..

There are tons of younger guys/gals in the hobby, but they drive non flashy cars, as they have to as johnie law is all to eager to make a "car persons" life hell..
They are on facebook with those phones and they have meets they post there, and will have 20 to a few hundred cars show up , they are not formal, and most times just a posting we are going to the h/f lot in __________ town, starting at 5pm be there..

many in their 30-early 40's are waiting, once the kids are gone, they'll like every other generation have some cash for a hobby..

I can't blame kids today for not having an itch for cars, look around, anything they come across is boring to drive, what I mean but that is, even the late 80's cars with no balls, when you gunned it, they felt fast, todays cars are so refined they are faster but don't feel like it, a basic camery is as fast or faster than my 85 t/a was but the t/a lets you know you are in for some fun when you drop the hammer..
even the factory "hot" cars with 400+ hp are guilty of this, to tame, to controlled, take a 250hp car from the 80's or a 300 hp car from the 70's and hammer it, they are brutal, and give you a smile a foot long,
a 2012 mustang or Camaro with the base v8 with 400hp doesn't,
and what I mean is a hot car felt totally different than the family trickster, today does the refined 400+ car drive different than that v6 camery?? not really..




Well here is the deal I work in the performance aftermarket and I see first hand just what is happening and going on. Here is my response to your points as I see it from the inside working it and living it over the years.

#1 Car shows have always been competitive. We all got laughed off at one point as it is the no pain no gain. That is how all of use learned as we showed up with our first cars that were not competitive. Few go in with a winner.

#2 Most of my clean very clean cars were bought for $2K-2500K. They were all real muscle cars and no real need for a lot of work. Even my part time work at a gas station paid $7 an hour in high school. Even if you go back to the 60'as the price of a car new was cheap enough even many kids in High School could buy a Corvette. The fact is today the cost of everything has gone up so much compared to what we are paid that it has made it hard for many to buy a car period that is good let alone if you are a kid starting out. Those gas station jobs are gone as you do not have to change oil but just be old enough to sell beer. Times have changed and with everyone wanting to be paid more the cost of everything has rose along with the cost of raw materials. It is a simple economic circle.

#3 There is some truth here but the cost involved have killed it more than anything. Just look what it cost for a good paint job. Add that the cost of sending Jr to Collage or Jr and Betsy if you have two kids. The cost of a house. There are no cheap cool cars the new ones are expensive and the old ones are expensive. Even an old Rat Rod will cost you a lot to build and their whole point was to rebel against the expensive show cars. If you took a loan out on your house for a play car that was just wrong to start with. You never crap where you eat.

#4 As for driving it is not an issue in 90% of the country. Lets face it In LA or NYC or some large metro area yes but most of us all have places we can go with no issues. The folks who have issues generally were not in a real car area to start with accept So Cal. Emission are what bite them.

#5 Ok Lets let my last statement Segway into this. First off Emissions have made things more tricky but the fact is you can still do it with little hassle just being wise to what you need to do. You can buy many clean 5.0 Mustangs and even 3rd and 4th gen F bodies that are fast and emissions legal. The parts are out there to do this and most are reasonable to buy now. In fact I had a neighbor sell a 17,000 mile Z/28 2003 for $8,000 that would pass emissions and run high 11 seconds all day. It took him almost a year to sell as no one was interested. He has all the SLP parts you could have and even the soft compound BFG tires. I have seen similar 3rd gens you can buy complete with lower miles too. There was one in a magazing the other day I think Auto week low miles 3rd Gen stock for $11,000. If you can get that you can find one with a few more for less. The Fiero is not the only one in this price range.
As for emissions even for California most of the parts have EO numbers that make them legal. You just need to be smart to know what to do and that just takes a little home work. It still can be done.

#6 I would agree on trim parts as theses are in great need. As for parts for the drive line there are so many for the TPI. LS, LT and 5.0 I don't know were to start. The trim parts are growing mostly for GM F body and A body but there does need to be more growth there. But you can still do like we did search junk yards as in the 80's there were no repo parts for our cars. If we got lucky we found them in junk yards and or swap meets. NOS parts were like gold then.

#6 I agree there is a lack of RWD but the sport compact market has proven you can go FWD too. Hell I have an HHR Turbo that will run circles around most Fiero's GM even offered a turbo upgrade and I went from 235 HP and 250 torque to 290 HP and 315 Torque. How much did the jump cost. Well $500 with just the addition of two map sensors and a computer flash. The same kit also is available for the Cobalt SS Turbo. The prices on these cars are dropping and they will run 13's all day with 23 pounds of boost all day getting 25-31 MPG. The same trick can be used on the other GM Turbo cars as they get cheaper and older. These engines will take up to 400 HP before you need to change the rods and pistons. Though it is tough to get the power to the ground with the front wheels. Who ever said FWD has better traction lied as with physics the weight transfers to the rear wheels when you launch. That is why John Force is still RWD.

There is a little truth to all you and I said but the trick is it is the combination of things. Much of this all goes back to the web and the social aspects. The way we socialize. Just look here we are speaking globally here when before it was just our buddies in the garage. The web has opened the door to so many things and closed the doors on other aspects. The way we do business. The way we entertain ourselves. the way we get news. I mean look we do not buy papers and magazines anymore, I bought my last car new off the web and only went to the dealer to pick it up. The way we live and interact has changed.

Finally clubs in general are failing. Not just cars but clubs, churches and other social groups. People do not socialize face to face anymore outside of bars. I see it with the Masonic Lodges that are closing. The Churches that are closing and even the VFW was failing till the Gulf war brought in a new group of Vets.

Even my In laws who belong to a private club that is like a private bar. It was once thriving and today every time you go you see less and less members as they are getting too old to get out or have passes away. It was a great social club for decade but the kids of the members just have no interest as they are on the web or off doing other things.

The bottom line is life as we have known it has changed much since the web has come into play. What is scary is we are far from seeing where this poker game ends.


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hyperv6

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quote
Originally posted by SuperchargedV6:

HyperV6, Scott. Right after I was reading this thread my daughter brought me a CD wondering what was on it. We watched it and in the middle was the Chili Cook off at your home. I was amazed how that came up while reading this thread I have all kinds of movies and allot of the clubs old records stored away here. Rick B


Good times!

I thought of you yesterday as I was reading about the Ghoul in a new Cleveland TV book. He really got screwed in Court over the Cool Ghoul. (sorry folks it is a long story on monster movie host)

The Cool Ghoul sucked.

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hyperv6

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quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


I'd rather hear late 70's and 80's rock...
but you made my point.. a car show/cruise should be playing a mix, now if it's a theme type show,, then ya play all the 50's music you want.. but some forget that most that had that music in their youth are 65+ ,
People comment about the car hobby slowing/dieing and wonder why younger people are not there with a car or want to be..


Many shows today are getting better with some newer music.

Now that is not to say they are playing Taylor Swift or Pantera. But they are getting better with a mix acceptable to all.

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Supercharged V6 Rick how are you doing .
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Report this Post12-30-2015 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:
Well here is the deal I work in the performance aftermarket and I see first hand just what is happening and going on. Here is my response to your points as I see it from the inside working it and living it over the years.

#1 Car shows have always been competitive. We all got laughed off at one point as it is the no pain no gain. That is how all of use learned as we showed up with our first cars that were not competitive. Few go in with a winner. REMEMBER when a child and parents said first impressions mean allot!! part of the problem is the old guard didn't stop by the newbie's car and say, well that's cool, what are your plans with it, and pointers on how to make it better, I think you missed what I ment here, I didn't mean going to a show and getting an award, I ment laughed off the field for driving that (in their eyes) pos to the show and entering it.

#2 Most of my clean very clean cars were bought for $2K-2500K. They were all real muscle cars and no real need for a lot of work. Even my part time work at a gas station paid $7 an hour in high school. Even if you go back to the 60'as the price of a car new was cheap enough even many kids in High School could buy a Corvette. The fact is today the cost of everything has gone up so much compared to what we are paid that it has made it hard for many to buy a car period that is good let alone if you are a kid starting out. Those gas station jobs are gone as you do not have to change oil but just be old enough to sell beer. Times have changed and with everyone wanting to be paid more the cost of everything has rose along with the cost of raw materials. It is a simple economic circle. ok 7 bucks an hour, so that would seem to be the 80's the first muscle car boom in prices, so you didn't buy a real muscle car for that price, you bought the family car that happened to be the same shape as the hot one,, you bought a 307 chevelle not the ls6, cars in the 60's were cheap but the pay was allot lower, iirc my dad said he was making 1.32 an hour working at a body shop, a 4500.oo new vette is hard to afford on that salary

#3 There is some truth here but the cost involved have killed it more than anything. Just look what it cost for a good paint job. Add that the cost of sending Jr to Collage or Jr and Betsy if you have two kids. The cost of a house. There are no cheap cool cars the new ones are expensive and the old ones are expensive. Even an old Rat Rod will cost you a lot to build and their whole point was to rebel against the expensive show cars. If you took a loan out on your house for a play car that was just wrong to start with. You never crap where you eat. not so much cost, you can't do much of it yourself anymore, many people painted their junk in their garage, back in the 70-80's you could walk into any junkyard and build your car from the parts in there.. today, the stuff is either been their so long it needs a total rebuild, or lack of parts because of lack of v8 cars.. and why the ls 5.3 truck engine is used for swaps..

#4 As for driving it is not an issue in 90% of the country. Lets face it In LA or NYC or some large metro area yes but most of us all have places we can go with no issues. The folks who have issues generally were not in a real car area to start with accept So Cal. Emission are what bite them. Driving today, is an issue everywhere not just the big cities, cops ticket for the littlest things, and god help you if you jack rabbit start from a light and there happens to be a car a cop could think you might be drag racing beside you even if they don't take off like a bullet also.

#5 Ok Lets let my last statement Segway into this. First off Emissions have made things more tricky but the fact is you can still do it with little hassle just being wise to what you need to do. You can buy many clean 5.0 Mustangs and even 3rd and 4th gen F bodies that are fast and emissions legal. The parts are out there to do this and most are reasonable to buy now. In fact I had a neighbor sell a 17,000 mile Z/28 2003 for $8,000 that would pass emissions and run high 11 seconds all day. It took him almost a year to sell as no one was interested. He has all the SLP parts you could have and even the soft compound BFG tires. I have seen similar 3rd gens you can buy complete with lower miles too. There was one in a magazing the other day I think Auto week low miles 3rd Gen stock for $11,000. If you can get that you can find one with a few more for less. The Fiero is not the only one in this price range.
As for emissions even for California most of the parts have EO numbers that make them legal. You just need to be smart to know what to do and that just takes a little home work. It still can be done. sure it can be done,, A MSD ls intake is 800.oo+ if you want a legal part the cost is 4-6 times the offroad only parts

#6 I would agree on trim parts as theses are in great need. As for parts for the drive line there are so many for the TPI. LS, LT and 5.0 I don't know were to start. The trim parts are growing mostly for GM F body and A body but there does need to be more growth there. But you can still do like we did search junk yards as in the 80's there were no repo parts for our cars. If we got lucky we found them in junk yards and or swap meets. NOS parts were like gold then. not so, sure the aftermarket has parts, but the kid with "A" car.. not a daily and the fun one, but one, can't walk into the autoparts store and get a part to be on the road that day or the next, forget it if it's aftermarket speed part.. hard to hold a job if you can't get to it because you are waiting on parts..

#6 I agree there is a lack of RWD but the sport compact market has proven you can go FWD too. Hell I have an HHR Turbo that will run circles around most Fiero's GM even offered a turbo upgrade and I went from 235 HP and 250 torque to 290 HP and 315 Torque. How much did the jump cost. Well $500 with just the addition of two map sensors and a computer flash. The same kit also is available for the Cobalt SS Turbo. The prices on these cars are dropping and they will run 13's all day with 23 pounds of boost all day getting 25-31 MPG. The same trick can be used on the other GM Turbo cars as they get cheaper and older. These engines will take up to 400 HP before you need to change the rods and pistons. Though it is tough to get the power to the ground with the front wheels. Who ever said FWD has better traction lied as with physics the weight transfers to the rear wheels when you launch. That is why John Force is still RWD.
the sport compact/import crowd are not welcome at most shows, many are not old enough, and why they have their own thing

There is a little truth to all you and I said but the trick is it is the combination of things. Much of this all goes back to the web and the social aspects. The way we socialize. Just look here we are speaking globally here when before it was just our buddies in the garage. The web has opened the door to so many things and closed the doors on other aspects. The way we do business. The way we entertain ourselves. the way we get news. I mean look we do not buy papers and magazines anymore, I bought my last car new off the web and only went to the dealer to pick it up. The way we live and interact has changed.

Finally clubs in general are failing. Not just cars but clubs, churches and other social groups. People do not socialize face to face anymore outside of bars. I see it with the Masonic Lodges that are closing. The Churches that are closing and even the VFW was failing till the Gulf war brought in a new group of Vets.

Even my In laws who belong to a private club that is like a private bar. It was once thriving and today every time you go you see less and less members as they are getting too old to get out or have passes away. It was a great social club for decade but the kids of the members just have no interest as they are on the web or off doing other things.

The bottom line is life as we have known it has changed much since the web has come into play. What is scary is we are far from seeing where this poker game ends.



clubs and social type clubs die because they refused to change and accept new things the younger crowd are into..
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quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


It just pisses me off on this global warming crap they beat into the heads of the young. Present your case and let them decide. Today if you do not agree with it all you are vilified.

Like with everything else there is some truth to Global Warming but also a lot of BS as there are a lot of people who have turned it into a industry. They are making a lot of money off of it at our expense and not all of it is honest. Sorry for the rant but it just gets to me at times. I want clean air but I also know there is a lot of sh*t and shineola tucked into this too.

Just read up on the emissions testing in Ohio. Only a couple counties have it even though the air is shared with all counties in Ohio. They put in a company that many of those who voted in the testing had invested in. Now they say it is free but they are paying it with the money they got from the cigarette lawsuits the states won. Instead of fixing the roads and bridges this money is going to the company that many of the politicians invested in and then chose to do the testing.

That is why I get mad.



I recently wrote this on a different website, but I figure I'd copy and paste it here because it is relevant. Keep in mind this mostly in terms of cities and suburban areas, not rural ones.


"I mean, global is our fault. It is everyone's fault.

It is socially irresponsible to own sports cars, that is just a fact. More pollutants going into the air makes the quality worse, LA used to be awful before emissions standards. The world would be better off if every person used a form of public transportation instead of their own personal car.

That being said, there is also a social cost to preventing people from driving. If we are not allowed to be happy, what is the point of a society? If cars make you independent and happy, is that not a net positive? Isn't the cost worth it?

I think current trends are a good compromise between social responsibility and individual happiness. I support emissions testing and stricter laws on the subject. Most who drive can afford to keep their cars up standards, and companies certainly can still produce cars that are faster and more efficient. You can get 300+ HP and still get 35 MPG(2016 V6 Camaro) while polluting less than cars with half the power before, that would never have been possible without standards. And we still can get 700hp for less than 60k(Hellcat), it is a golden age for cars.

Does it annoy me that I have to try and squeeze a Catalytic Converter on my project car? Hell yes it does. Would my car not having one make any difference at all? Probably not. But I am willing to make that compromise in order to have cleaner air for those who choose to walk ride their bikes. They have just as much of a right to use the air as a I do."
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quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:


clubs and social type clubs die because they refused to change and accept new things the younger crowd are into..


True to a point but that is not an absolute in any way. Peoples value for their time and money change. Technology has of late had the greatest impact.

Also some people do not want to adapt to older traditions too. That one is a two way street. Why do something you do not really like or hold any value for.

Also with things like the Masons it used to be a way to network. Today people go to LinkedIn.

We could add all sorts of reasons and most would hold some ground.

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quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Also some people do not want to adapt to older traditions too. That one is a two way street. Why do something you do not really like or hold any value for.




So explain to me how this statement, and others along the same lines in this thread, are so different from what I said in the get-go for which I got flamed for?

All I heard after I made my post was how everyone sat around a campfire and sang Kumbaya.

I'm sensing that "2 way street" right in this thread.
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Report this Post12-30-2015 12:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Threedog:


I recently wrote this on a different website, but I figure I'd copy and paste it here because it is relevant. Keep in mind this mostly in terms of cities and suburban areas, not rural ones.


"I mean, global is our fault. It is everyone's fault.

It is socially irresponsible to own sports cars, that is just a fact. More pollutants going into the air makes the quality worse, LA used to be awful before emissions standards. The world would be better off if every person used a form of public transportation instead of their own personal car.

That being said, there is also a social cost to preventing people from driving. If we are not allowed to be happy, what is the point of a society? If cars make you independent and happy, is that not a net positive? Isn't the cost worth it?

I think current trends are a good compromise between social responsibility and individual happiness. I support emissions testing and stricter laws on the subject. Most who drive can afford to keep their cars up standards, and companies certainly can still produce cars that are faster and more efficient. You can get 300+ HP and still get 35 MPG(2016 V6 Camaro) while polluting less than cars with half the power before, that would never have been possible without standards. And we still can get 700hp for less than 60k(Hellcat), it is a golden age for cars.

Does it annoy me that I have to try and squeeze a Catalytic Converter on my project car? Hell yes it does. Would my car not having one make any difference at all? Probably not. But I am willing to make that compromise in order to have cleaner air for those who choose to walk ride their bikes. They have just as much of a right to use the air as a I do."


The thing that gets to me is the terms Socially.

This term has been abused to the point they try to make people villains just because they do not agree with somethings and those pointing the finger are not always true of heart or intent.

I am sure there are many green people who do what they do because they think it is the right thing. I have never had an issue with that.

Now what I take issue with is where so many people today have been pushing an agenda and try to make a villain of anyone who does not agree. Both sides of this global warming deal is still much speculation as neither side can prove 100 percent what is true.

I do know many are working the green end to profit by it and really have no real care in the climate. Read up on Maurice Strong. He started the Global Warming thing and made billions. Where is he hiding today. Last I saw was in China where the government is protecting him. Al Gore did it too.

Now I do see the Ed Begley Jr's of the world and appreciate that they are true of heart and message. I may not always agree but I know his intent is non profit and true.

No one wants dirty air but to deal with this you need a control balance to improve things while not crashing your economy. Yet we have people willing to blame Global Warming for earth quakes to terrorism and take advantage of people who really don't know any better.

To be honest anyone who knows history knows 100 years ago things were so much worse than today. To be honest air in most places is much cleaner than we have seen in decades.

I am a firm believer we can keep our ability to MFG and still continue to improve the emissions. But I am not going to sell out our countries place in the world just so we can enrich those on the Carbon Exchange in Chicago. CCX was a dangerous deal pushed by political people with the cap and trade deals they tried to force on us.

The fight still goes on in different forms and now we have made a deal in France to control limits with out Military. This will only lead to disaster.

This is a multi head monster and so few have a clue what all is involved. While there is part truth to emissions many are taking advantage to change just who is in charge of the world globally. In the end we will lose in this country and we have some in office willing to give it away.

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quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Good times!

I thought of you yesterday as I was reading about the Ghoul in a new Cleveland TV book. He really got screwed in Court over the Cool Ghoul. (sorry folks it is a long story on monster movie host)

The Cool Ghoul sucked.


That brings back memories! The ghoul, Big Chuck and Lil John, Super Host...we had some pretty cool TV in our area back in the day.
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Jason88Notchie

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quote
Originally posted by SuperchargedV6:

HyperV6, Scott. Right after I was reading this thread my daughter brought me a CD wondering what was on it. We watched it and in the middle was the Chili Cook off at your home. I was amazed how that came up while reading this thread I have all kinds of movies and allot of the clubs old records stored away here. Rick B


Rick, we should meet up anyway. Got to give you back your pace car model.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post12-30-2015 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT:


So explain to me how this statement, and others along the same lines in this thread, are so different from what I said in the get-go for which I got flamed for?

All I heard after I made my post was how everyone sat around a campfire and sang Kumbaya.

I'm sensing that "2 way street" right in this thread.


It is an age old deal. It should be a two way street but there are many on both sides just willing to accept it their own way.

The old saying that you can't make everyone happy applies and knows no age.

I sit and watch the older people relive their teens and some only want to see that. Then I see the younger kids come in with their radios up blasting out the old people with the subs. Both sides have to give a little. Will they in some cases yes but in many others no.

We see the same thing in the POCI club where some member accept any Pontiac post 1979. While others feel there were no real Pontiac after 1979 when last 400 V8 was made. I get both sides but the club at this point needs all the members it can get as they are not making any Pontiacs anymore. As the older cars get more valuable few are joining the clubs as collectors buy them and sit on them.

This fight has gone on since 1979 and may never end before the club ends.

Same with our Fieros. We get accepted at some events and others we are looked down on. We can get mad or just remember and support those who support us.

You are not going to change minds complaining but support and money you spend can lead to you being better appreciated.

For a club to work today it takes all kinds. Will there be some that stick up their nose to the others yes as you will never lose that. But the key is to get enough of all types to work together to be the glue.

You really want to be accepted in a club get involved and do some of the work. Too many clubs have 3% doing 100% of the work. You offer to run a meeting. Write stories for the news letter and host a cook out etc these things go a long way. Being a club and club member is very political and you have to treat all people right even if they do not do so in kind. You can just hug one member and tell the other one he is an idiot.

That is one thing I see missing in many who grew up on the web today. They lack the art of the deal in how to treat people and work with others. The web has not taught them how to compromise of broker a common ground. Here you just say what you like. Then with older people you also have the factor they are old and just don't care anymore what you think. Someone has to be the bigger person at times and just keep their mouth shut. You have to decide is it better to say something or just let it go. That is one area I think we all struggle with anymore.

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hyperv6

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quote
Originally posted by Jason88Notchie:


That brings back memories! The ghoul, Big Chuck and Lil John, Super Host...we had some pretty cool TV in our area back in the day.


Nice story in the book on how Chuck and little John stole Super Host Phone Booth.
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Report this Post12-30-2015 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Thunderstruck GTSend a Private Message to Thunderstruck GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Too many clubs have 3% doing 100% of the work.


That goes for 99% of any and all clubs no matter if it's automotive, motorcycle, boat, gun, social, etc.
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Report this Post12-30-2015 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT:


That goes for 99% of any and all clubs no matter if it's automotive, motorcycle, boat, gun, social, etc.


True but if you want to be better accepted and hold more influence be part of the 3% and not the complainer.

Just got out of a new 2016 Camaro. WOW! Photo's do not do it justice and the sound must be heard to be believed. Sorry I am still coming down.

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Report this Post12-30-2015 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SuperchargedV6Click Here to Email SuperchargedV6Send a Private Message to SuperchargedV6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see Big Chuck all the time in Church and the neighborhood and the Ghoul is working on a a show in Detroit which I am happy to say I helped him with Chuck loved my DGP Fiero by the way. Rick B


[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 12-30-2015).]

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SuperchargedV6

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The Ghoul loved the DGP also. Rick B

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Report this Post12-30-2015 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SuperchargedV6Click Here to Email SuperchargedV6Send a Private Message to SuperchargedV6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jason88Notchie:


Rick, we should meet up anyway. Got to give you back your pace car model.


Let me know and the car is still available as I still haven't had time to work on it sadly. I had a severe back injury in April that was pretty bad and was actually brought back to life after medication killed me at the hospital. Herniated two disk, tore two, shifted L5 inwards and down while L2 is shifted out and up. I am screwed for life now Rick B

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Report this Post12-31-2015 02:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Threedog:
It is socially irresponsible to own sports cars, that is just a fact.


No. It's not. You can debate whether or not driving sports cars is socially irresponsible.

Does this apply to the 2016 Camaro or a Tesla? Blanket statemets like the one above are almost always wrong.

Many Fieros are hardly driven at all. Is it socially irresponsible to buy lots of parts for a car that is driven a few miles in several years?
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