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This is why you need to pay attention when they smog your Fiero by Kitskaboodle
Started on: 07-04-2015 12:00 AM
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Last post by: dobey on 07-14-2015 09:58 AM
Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post07-04-2015 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You may not know that the automatic V6 Fiero must be running and in Drive (with the wheels chocked ) while checking the timing.
The smog guy doing my car said he couldn't smog it because the timing was "off the scale" and to bring it back after I reset the timing. (to 10 degrees) Off the scale? What? I had checked it before the last smog check ( two years ago) and it was spot on.
So, I took it home and re - checked it according to the sticker inside the decklid. My sticker may be different than yours because it's a Ca Fiero. At any rate, the timing was perfect! Thinking back to my smog test today, I don't recall him chocking the wheels, despite it sitting on the rollers. So, he basically wasted about 30 minutes of my time because he did NOT follow directions. I know these guys don't like people watching them while they work but I'm finding it very necessary to watch them/instruct them each and every step of the way.
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Report this Post07-04-2015 01:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They actually check the timing on your car? What with a strobe light? Why don't they just plug into the OBD port and check the base timing?
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Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post07-04-2015 01:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ha! That's only one small part of it. They do far more than that! Evap test, visual check of hoses, EGR, EGR solenoid, gas cap seal, verify OE# on the cat to make sure it's Ca certified, roller test, etc. In fact, they let me know the test would take one hour. The smog Nazis at Carb do undercover stings so many of them are afraid to let their guard down and relax the standards. They check EVERYTHING.
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Report this Post07-04-2015 08:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not fer nothing, but They are not going to know the directions for every car.. and lets face it fiero's are not seen everyday..
If you where watching him, why didn't you tell him , and explain the directions for setting/checking the timing is on the emissions decal/Sticker .
Or did you forget how it's done also??
That is an odd way to set the timing!!! many older carb'd vehicles you put it in gear to set idle speed.. but not the timing..
That's just plain odd.. I don't have a v6 mines a 4.. so I'd have to look it up.. not that I don't believe you. it's just odd..
It's sad that they are still testing cars this old.. but I guess out their there is many more older vehicles on the road than in the rustbelt..
her everything OB1 back (so most everything up to 1997 ) is safety only.. and common sense emission inspection.. i.e. they check for a converter,and take a sniff of the exhaust ,as the ethanol fuel has a nasty smell if the converter is hollow.. and it can't be smoking and or pig rich..
Funny about this thread, I just got a sticker the 3rd.. old one ran out in may, but the comedy of errors with the glass company that was to install the new windshield.. it ended being over due..
offtopic,highjack, but you might get a giggle out of it..
1st, go to see what it'll cost.. and set up a date to have it don't.. asked them if it included the trim.. she called the glass house they get it from, and yup, so, good
2nd, Saturday morning, I show up, but no glass, She forgot to have someone get it from the warehouse.. ok. fine.. set it up for the following Saturday..
3rd, the day comes, and the company driver is unloading that days job's glass, I'm there early as I work overnight.. He puts each one on a stand,, and then gets in van and for what ever reason, put van in "N" and was talking on phone, and rolled into 2 stands.. sure enough one was my glass.. Fine.. if I want to wait or comeback in a few hours (like 2pm) they'll have another , ok.. I'll be back
4th, tech gets all set up and gets ready to do it,, spends 10 minutes try'n to figure out how to get the wipers off.. and happens to say, Do I have the trim that goes around the glass, I'm like no, the job was quoted with it.. So off to the office we go, And the person I talked to isn't there so, they can't do it anyways,, But they call the vendor and ask WTF.. and They say it don't come with the trim.. So the girl calls the office warehouse and come to find out, no one has one, They call best chevy and do a search, a dealer in Mississippi has the only 2 in the g.m. national data base.. she calls the dealer and The guy tells her he'll call her back in a few after he goes up into the storage upstairs and double checks that it is indeed there.. ok, he calls back.. yup got it.. but They only deal with best chevy.. so she tells him she'll call him back ASAP.. Calls the glass company regional office, and ask how to set up an account and get a p.o. to order it from that dealer.. Well that would have to wait till Monday as no one there can do that.. But she is told that she can order it through best chevy and have them get it from the other dealer,, She hangs up the call, and explains this to me.. and I'm thinking, if one dealer has to get it from another one, they'll all be getting some pie, on this part.. So, I tell the girl.. give me the phone# of the dealer in Mississippi and I'll call and see if I can buy it and have it on it's way today.. So, her not knowing that, that is a nono, she gives me the guys name the part # and phone #.. I go out to car and call.. Really nice guy.. but he's like it's 75.99 + 15.00 shipping.. I'm like um no.. and ask how long they been up in the no mans land of storage.. he's like 2003, I'm like I'll take both if he can do something with the price, so he does,, and tells me it be x dollars and 30.00 shipping.. I'm like buddy, the trim is like a pound if that..He's like I don't make the rules,,he's like they charge a flat 15.00 per box.. So, I ask, welp, what if the two boxes are taped together or both trim parts are put into one box? he's like I can do that.. So, ok.. I thank him.. knowing full well that they would have charged me for the shipping 2 units and dumped them both into one box..
So, last Saturday, we try this again.. and the lady that took my job in the first place (and she is the manager of that local), goes through the , ok you're here with the Indy.. I'm like yup, and here is the trim.. She's like we can't use your part... So, now I'm turning a nice shade of red,purple.. and carmly said.. why? and she goes though the whole b/s.. So, I asked her to bring up the work order on the screen..
I said read it.. she's like I know what it says, I did it, you talked to me. I said yup, and I asked if the glass was coming with the exterior trim.. you even called the vendor to ask them, and the reply was yes it comes with it, She's like correct.. I said, ok, good.. so i'll put this in the trunk, as you have the glass and trim here and won't be needing this then, So, she calls the tech in to get the keys, and he comes in, and takes car into a bay, and gets glass set up, and starts looking around, and around, then walks back into the office, I follow as I know the comedy that is going to start.. He ask her where is the trim, she grabs the paperwork for the supplies dropped off for that days job's, whadda know, no trim listed, she calls the warehouse to find out where it tis.. They inform her that they can't get it, dealer only.. So, I'm try'n hard not to laugh.. She calls best chevy, and they run the national search.. and the parts guy finally remembers, I did this 2 weeks ago.. remembers what dealer had the only stock. and gives this, "manager" that dealers phone #.. she calls them and The parts guy, looks up the part # and tells her, sorry, we sold the last 2, 2 weeks ago..
So, she hangs up, and turns to me, and says sorry, we can't install your glass as the parts to do the job are not avail..
I'm like , um.. get your regional manager on the phone.. she calls him, he's only 5 minutes down the road, he'll be there in a jiffy. He gets there and she explains that the parts are not avail.. He turns to me, and does the best, we're sorry b/s.. So, I tell him, back in the middle of may, I came in, got a quote, asked if the trim was included, was told yes,( and pointed to the lady,)by her, set up a date, show up, no glass, set up again, driver backs into glass, set up again, tech doesn't have trim can't do it.. Girl in office, hunts down the part.. can't order it till Monday as the main office needs to set up an account with that dealer.. set up a date for 2 weeks out, show up, and this lady, tells me you can't use my trim.. but you can't get any, He explains that the dealer that had the last few sold them.. I said I know, I'm the one he sold them to!!!!!!!!!!!!!.. to make sure I didn't waste another Saturday here.. Now, I want the glass put in today, and with the trim I have that is the same dam part, literally that you would be using anyways. And because I'm supply'n the trim, you can take what it cost me for it off the bill.. as the quote was for glass install with trim.. I explained, that I asked up front about the trim, as I would get it if they couldn't get it. I've had to risk driving this car with an expired sticker to many times over this.. I also told him, I could get another trim if needed from the fiero store, but I have a genuine g.m. part here.. what is the problem.. So finally the R.M. say's ok, but I'm going to have the tech that does the vettes come do it.. I'm like at this point, fine.. it gets done, I rush to the shop that does all my stickers, and they are closed,that Saturday as they are hosting a bike run.. I figured at that point, I'd wait till the 3rd and get a July sticker instead of a June..
sorry about the book.. I figured misery loves company.. lol
Have a great 4th.
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Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post07-04-2015 10:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
He was looking at the sticker with his flashlight no less. I assumed he read the whole thing. I assumed he would know what to do so I did not watch him every second. And I am 100% correct on the label. Car in a Drive , wheels chocked! In fact I took a picture of the label. Anyone want to post for me??
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Report this Post07-04-2015 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey E Furgal... the paragraph is your friend.
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Report this Post07-04-2015 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This story just goes to show how out of control the government in California is. Here in NJ, (not exactly a red state) they plug into your OBD II or ALDL connector and verify that everything runs correctly. On older cars they use the exhaust sniffer. That's the full extent of it here. Five minutes and you are done. The best part is that if your car is 25 years old you can register for a one time fee and receive "HISTORIC" plates If your car is not 25 years old you can still register yearly as a Collector Car but that has a 5,000 mile limit. Both classifications are completely exempt from any type of inspection.

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E.Furgal
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Report this Post07-05-2015 05:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Hey E Furgal... the paragraph is your friend.


Na,, read it like one of those speed readers that do ad's
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PaulJK
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Report this Post07-05-2015 07:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

It's sad that they are still testing cars this old..



well here's some food for thought - the last shop i went to in CA charged $80 per smog.
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E.Furgal
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Report this Post07-05-2015 10:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:


well here's some food for thought - the last shop i went to in CA charged $80 per smog.


ya, every other year..
40 a year..
it's 35 here, if it gets emission tested or not..
my indy took all of 3 minutes.. lights,horn,wipers, brakes stop the car no funny noises, ball joint/tie rod test.. done,
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thesameguy
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Report this Post07-09-2015 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:

You may not know that the automatic V6 Fiero must be running and in Drive (with the wheels chocked ) while checking the timing.
The smog guy doing my car said he couldn't smog it because the timing was "off the scale" and to bring it back after I reset the timing. (to 10 degrees) Off the scale? What? I had checked it before the last smog check ( two years ago) and it was spot on.
So, I took it home and re - checked it according to the sticker inside the decklid. My sticker may be different than yours because it's a Ca Fiero. At any rate, the timing was perfect! Thinking back to my smog test today, I don't recall him chocking the wheels, despite it sitting on the rollers. So, he basically wasted about 30 minutes of my time because he did NOT follow directions. I know these guys don't like people watching them while they work but I'm finding it very necessary to watch them/instruct them each and every step of the way.
Kit


Wow man, you need to find a new smog shop!

I have owned nothing but weird cars for years and it took me a long time to find a place that actually knew what they were doing and were smart enough to consult Alldata and/or Mitchell when the answer isn't obvious. They are also not shy about asking me for input when they reach a roadblock - they don't take my word for it (which I understand), but if it's enough to get them looking in the right place we've both saved time.

Some things that have helped me in the past include printouts from CARB when dealing with exemptions and ALWAYS bring the factory manual. Sometimes Alldata etc. isn't specific enough and there is no arguing with the factory manual! If you show up armed with this stuff, you'll find out pretty quickly whether you're dealing with a defensive shop or one that is genuinely interested in getting the work done.

Every two years my guys have to smog this mess:



So they are pretty happy when the Fiero shows up.
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Report this Post07-09-2015 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
It's sad that they are still testing cars this old.. but I guess out their there is many more older vehicles on the road than in the rustbelt..


Cars that burn fuel still put out emissions, regardless of their age. Generally, they put out more emissions, not less. And emissions don't just affect the air in a single place. Every city isn't in its own bubble dome with its own air quality issues. Emissions affect the entire planet.

What's sad is that smog tests aren't done everywhere, regardless of age.
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thesameguy
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Report this Post07-09-2015 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On the West Coast we get roll in from CHINA. People in the flat middle bits don't have to worry about pollution from the other side of the ocean or pollution that gets trapped against mountains and just lingers. It's disgusting and it's totally preventable.

The breakdown that we have in California is weird overlapping policies that ultimately work against each other. The equipment laws seem like a good idea until you take a hard look at what they prevent - I have to hold my Fiero to "very strict*" 1987 standards, when a quick & dirty high value or Ecotec swap would net better mileage and a cleaner tailpipe. You've got groups protecting the air, groups protecting the bottom line (CARB certification, etc.) and groups protecting the consumer all ultimately working against each other. It'll get sorted out eventually - they just haven't found the system that works best yet. I'll take a little pain over dirty air and water any day.
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Report this Post07-09-2015 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Cars that burn fuel still put out emissions, regardless of their age. Generally, they put out more emissions, not less. And emissions don't just affect the air in a single place. Every city isn't in its own bubble dome with its own air quality issues. Emissions affect the entire planet.

What's sad is that smog tests aren't done everywhere, regardless of age.


"generally they put out more emissions, " totally false, like I listed in that book above
older cars are for the most part not used as daily drivers, so they are used less,
2nd most are over cared for.. my 305 v8 with q-jet emissions are just as clean as a 2013 v8 and I only listing 2013 as I haven't had it back to be retested to know if it = a 2015 model.

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quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

They actually check the timing on your car? What with a strobe light? Why don't they just plug into the OBD port and check the base timing?


really?
That is totally pointless, the computer doesn't know where the timing is, it assumes that it is set right at 10degs, thus why the timing is set with a strobe light, I don't even know why I have to explain this.

The easiest way to beat the smog natzis and avoid all that china pollution is move outa cali.
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Report this Post07-09-2015 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

2nd most are over cared for.. my 305 v8 with q-jet emissions are just as clean as a 2013 v8 and I only listing 2013 as I haven't had it back to be retested to know if it = a 2015 model.



I *dare* you to post a smog report and prove that.

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Report this Post07-09-2015 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

thesameguy

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quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


really?
That is totally pointless, the computer doesn't know where the timing is, it assumes that it is set right at 10degs, thus why the timing is set with a strobe light, I don't even know why I have to explain this.


I am now wondering if the laws would allow them to check timing. I actually don't have recollection on whether they checked mine or not. The law prevents a smog tech from taking anything apart or modifying anything. I wonder if opening the console and shorting the diagnostic connector to get static timing is okay or not. Hmmm.
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Report this Post07-09-2015 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:
"generally they put out more emissions, " totally false, like I listed in that book above
older cars are for the most part not used as daily drivers, so they are used less,
2nd most are over cared for.. my 305 v8 with q-jet emissions are just as clean as a 2013 v8 and I only listing 2013 as I haven't had it back to be retested to know if it = a 2015 model.


So you've had your 305 QJet tested at at an OEM factory? The equipment at most state testing facilities is nowhere near as good as the factory equipment used to design and build the emissions systems on modern vehicles to meet CARB and CAFE requirements. There are also things beyond simple engine exhaust as well. The glue holding the interior coverings together from 30 years ago puts out more emissions than the adhesives used in production today. Seat cushions today are made from plant based materials such as soy, unlike the very environmentally unfriendly foams used decades ago.

Your "argument" is also very ill founded. I see people driving 80s Camaros with antique plates every day. Just because a show quality 60s muscle car may only get driven to shows and such, doesn't mean all cars do. Nor does it mean that it somehow puts out less emissions than a modern vehicle.

But yeah, like thesameguy said, show us the emissions report card of your so called low emissions 305 versus some 2013 vehicle.
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Report this Post07-09-2015 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


really?
That is totally pointless, the computer doesn't know where the timing is, it assumes that it is set right at 10degs, thus why the timing is set with a strobe light, I don't even know why I have to explain this.

The easiest way to beat the smog natzis and avoid all that china pollution is move outa cali.


one reason to explain it is so that those of us not as smart as you might learn something. If everyone knew everything Cliff might as well shut this down right now.
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Report this Post07-10-2015 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why I will never live in California... I just had my corvette inspected today... hooked it up to the computer, than checked the gas cap Passed sent me on my way
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Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post07-11-2015 01:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:


I am now wondering if the laws would allow them to check timing. I actually don't have recollection on whether they checked mine or not. The law prevents a smog tech from taking anything apart or modifying anything. I wonder if opening the console and shorting the diagnostic connector to get static timing is okay or not. Hmmm.


Don't know about if it's legal for the smog shop to check my timing but I can tell you I have been to several different shops and they have ALL checked my timing! The hassle for them is they have to find their own battery to hook up their timing light as mine is in the front underneath the spare . They also have to remove the cover plate for the cigarette lighter and the engine vent cover . And then they have to chock the wheels and put it in Drive before checking the timing. That's right... in Drive.
Kit
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Report this Post07-11-2015 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:


Don't know about if it's legal for the smog shop to check my timing but I can tell you I have been to several different shops and they have ALL checked my timing! The hassle for them is they have to find their own battery to hook up their timing light as mine is in the front underneath the spare . They also have to remove the cover plate for the cigarette lighter and the engine vent cover . And then they have to chock the wheels and put it in Drive before checking the timing. That's right... in Drive.
Kit


How do you check the timing on a 5 speed? seriously? If it's supposed to be in drive.
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Report this Post07-11-2015 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In neutral, OBD port shorted, and then you average cylinders 1 & 4 aiming for 10 degrees,
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Report this Post07-12-2015 12:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My decklid sticker says to jumper the aldl, chock the wheels, put it in Drive and then check the timing. As I said before, I took a picture of this sticker and can send to you for posting here. And yes, we are talking auto, not stick.
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thesameguy
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Report this Post07-12-2015 12:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, that's correct on an auto, but jscott asked about a 5-speed.
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Gandalf
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Report this Post07-13-2015 11:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm guessing the setting of static timing on a V6 auto is different for CA cars? My 86 GT (4 speed) sticker states Park (or possibly neutral?) for timing an auto. Not a CA car.
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css9450
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Report this Post07-13-2015 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The sticker is pretty straightforward I thought. Check it in "D" if its an Auto, or in "N" if its a stick.
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Gandalf
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Report this Post07-14-2015 06:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:

The sticker is pretty straightforward I thought. Check it in "D" if its an Auto, or in "N" if its a stick.


My point was that mine states N for manual AND N for Auto...
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css9450
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Report this Post07-14-2015 07:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gandalf:

My point was that mine states N for manual AND N for Auto...


I wonder if the cars built for export were different? Every US domestic market Fiero I've seen has called for checking the timing on the automatics in D (except for the DIS 4-cyl. models of course).

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Gandalf
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Report this Post07-14-2015 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:


I wonder if the cars built for export were different?


Mine was a USDM car - I don't believe there was any difference as I believe the only official export market was Canada. (I could be wrong on that one, I know there were some sold in Europe, however I don't think this was done directly by GM)
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dobey
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Report this Post07-14-2015 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gandalf:
Mine was a USDM car - I don't believe there was any difference as I believe the only official export market was Canada. (I could be wrong on that one, I know there were some sold in Europe, however I don't think this was done directly by GM)


Fiero was a budget built car, and only OE markets were US/CA. Any that were sold elsewhere, were done as special imports.
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