Probably not... The Fiero uses an odd combination of motors for the mode control and a cable for the temperature control. Most cars are all electric or vacuum for mode control and cable for temperature control. If your goal is to change up just for a different look you can take a vacuum operated control and replace it with a rotary switch. I found a switch that has the exact indexing needed to match the firebird controls. If you end up wanting to do a firebird hvac I can get you a link for that switch.
Riceburner has been building these kits for the rebody market for some time now. The problem with the stock Fiero market is that people don't want to pay what it costs to develop, test and build these kind of things.
I've looked into it but didn't find anything that would work without a good amount of modification. I was hoping to find something digital from a 80s Buick that would work. When I'm ready to really tackle the project I'll probably use my electrical engineer to come up with a solution for the cable operated temp control.
I've looked into it but didn't find anything that would work without a good amount of modification. I was hoping to find something digital from a 80s Buick that would work. When I'm ready to really tackle the project I'll probably use my electrical engineer to come up with a solution for the cable operated temp control.
I would just pull the HVAC door box and upgrade it to a stepper motor controlled door, and go all electric. At least, that's what I plan to do at some point, if I can ever get the time and space to really move forward with my build.
The kit that I posted is plug and play. Here is his website explaining everything. You'll also notice that there is a servo motor in the bag in my photo above. http://home.comcast.net/~ri...AC/oem_interface.htm
At the time, the kit was $150 and $40 for the heater servo motor. I don't know his current price.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 12-09-2014).]
That page still says 150 plus 40 for the motor, but hasn't been updated since 2006. I'll try the email but who keeps a Comcast email for 8 years or more?
Originally posted by IMSA GT: The kit that I posted is plug and play.
As long as you're using a Diablo dash at least. That's for the OEM Diablo HVAC control, to interface with the Fiero electronics and air box. The replica reproduction unit that includes the display and everything was more like $400, IIRC.
I don't think Riceburner is building the 355 HVAC's anymore, he was going to build me one but hasn't answered any emails for 7 or 8 months. Too bad as I have Almida's centre consul and really needed it. Does anyone know if someone has one for sale?
I am not sure if the Firebird control will fit the Fiero opening without modifying it - I seem to recall it being a bit taller, but then it has been awhile since I did the (dash) swap.
I am not sure if the Firebird control will fit the Fiero opening without modifying it - I seem to recall it being a bit taller, but then it has been awhile since I did the (dash) swap.
What year firebird and what kind of modifications have to be done to make it work in the fiero?
I do not think that I have any pictures prior to the install since I had Riceburner ship the HVAC unit direct to Amida and it came to me with the unit preinstalled on the underside of the console. It would take a lot of persuasion to get me to remove the center consoled due to tight clearances and wires everywhere but I will check and see if I have a picture of the HVAC unit under the console. I can easily provide a picture of the top of the console with the controls if that would help.
Here are a couple of pictures of the F355 HVAC unit provided by Riceburner. I will take more detailed pictures if they are requested. I do not currently have any pictures of the bottom (inside the console) of the HVAC unit that I can find. Due to all the wiring in this area I would prefer not to disassemble the console but may do so if a picture is urgently needed.
Nelson
[This message has been edited by hnthomps (edited 12-27-2014).]
Wow, going through my Comcast email and saw a link to this thread from Taijiguy.. Surprisingly I do still have the account, mainly because we still have Comcast (basic cable..) and I don't want to break the link to all the pictures I've posted over the years.. I remember to check it every 6 months or so.
Sadly, life has gotten in the way of all the fun stuff I used to do.. After the Fiero I bough my Lotus Elise and any bits of free time I do get I end up working on Lotus stuff.. Before I bought it (almost 3 years now??) one of the Lotus guys contacted me about designing a digital HVAC for it based on my existing one.. I made a prototype, but... I haven't been able to work on any of the HVAC projects in a long long time; I keep saying I'm going to get back to it when I get a break from work, but it just doesn't happen... 10-12 hour days most weeks, sometimes 7 days a week. I have something like 250+ hours of unused vacation time, at some point I'm going to stop accruing it.. Now I just work and hope for nice enough weather to drive the 'fun car' to work, and to get out while it's still light out so I can drive it around a bit on the way home.
Anyway, some info I guess?
The F355 panel kits were $350 way back when, I think I may have bumped them to $400 for the most recent ones due to the time involved. ("most recent" still being 2 years ago) I was brought out of hibernation by a member here, who bought a couple of them up front which let me break even on the cost of having a new set of mold masters machined to make the knobs. (I cast the plastic myself) I now have a nice set of molds to make them, but lack the time to do the casting, machining, soldering, etc.. for the kits. The actual control panel itself was about 1/4" thick, made to fit in the space available in Amida's (awesome!) console and clear the Fiero shifter brackets underneath. It was all custom-machined with resistors and switches embedded in the plastic and aluminum panel, which then connected to a control module that plugged into the Fiero harness. I even made the circuit boards for the panel myself, as typical circuit board material is about 1/16" thick but that was too much space, I needed something like .02" thin.. Hours and hours and hours of work for each one.. I don't have the greatest records, but I think I sold around 25 of them total over the years, the last one being in February of 2013.
The digital Diablo HVAC panels (the one in the picture above with the screen) were originally $500 for the kit, then $550 and with the new model (user selectable colors, newer components inside..) $600. That was a complete kit as you see, plug-and-play with Fiero or Vintage Air. It was (I think?) a little wide for the stock Fiero dash, about 7" x 3" or so. MadCurl (I think it was him?) was the only Fiero guy as far as I know to install one in a Fiero (not a Fiero-based replica Lambo), albeit a highly modified one with a custom interior. It evolved from being a functional panel with a fake LCD screen to a fully functional HVAC controller with light-up rubber buttons and working LCD screen. Same as the F355 ones, I haven't been able to touch them in a long time.. After the re-design (some electronic parts had gone obsolete), I had to change the programming to work with the new parts but found my C programming skills were completely gone when I went to work with the software... Since the learning curve to properly set up and program a board was / is quite steep, I just haven't been able to dive back into it. I used a version of the design (the color-changable LEDs anyway) in the Gagliardi Vendetta controller, but that was with the old chips that worked with the old program.
The $150 price referred to above was for an interface board that plugged into an OEM Lamborghini controller and made it function with the Fiero or Vintage Air controller. It was $150 for Vintage Air, and $190 for Fiero due to the servo needed for heater cable control. The down-side to that was the $1,500+ pricetag of the OEM controller, but some people had bought them for the ultimate realism in their replicas. Some time later we found out that a certain Rover used an almost identical control panel (slightly different button shape on the left 4 buttons, different button graphics, and orange instead of green backlighting) which were available on eBay for around $100. The same controller board worked with those with some minor programming changes, so the total package was $250-$290 as long as you didn't mind it being a bit different looking than OEM.
In all the controllers I made, I used an OEM GM heater servo (from 1998-ish era Chevy Malibus, Corsicas, etc..) with an aluminum arm and some assorted hardware to convert a 0-12v signal into linear motion to move the heat temperature cable. The servo got the voltage from the controller (or more simply, from a variable resistor between 12v and GND), and turned its output shaft. This turned the arm, which was bolted to the end of the cable, which then pushed it in and out allowing temperature control. I would buy them used from junkyards (never found a bad one, so they seem to last forever) but at some point in the last few years the price spiked on them. When I was in the middle of the project, I designed my own linear servo instead, and bought 500 geared motors that I was going to use for the parts.... Those are still in a box around here somewhere, I never did get to make the prototype! Now I have access to 3D printers; maybe I'll get back to it some day.... (in the mythical 'free time')
There should be various threads here and on Kitcentral.com from the 'good old days' showing the kits and the progress at the time.. I'm having a bit of trouble searching for them at the moment..
I apologize to anyone that's tried to contact me about panels recently - I've seen a few emails go by, but always think "I'll respond tomorrow"; of course tomorrow never seems to happen..
Edit - my current email address is my username @ gmail dot com in case anyone does want to get in touch.. I'm going to try to go through and respond to some today, but unfortunately I don't have the greatest news as to availability.. I keep saying I'm going to take a month off work, but you know they aren't going to allow that!
------------------ Bob Williams 3800 swap is sold..
Was pulled to the Dark Side and got something with a "Lotus Designed Suspension"
[This message has been edited by Riceburner98 (edited 01-11-2015).]
Good to see you're still around Riceburner, you've turned out some amazing work over the years that's inspired me on many occasions. How's the Lotus treating you?
Yup, I'll echo the above sentiment. Good to see you're still around. Too bad you're out of the Fiero game. I'm just now getting mine back on the road, doing a SBC swap atm.
Still around, just sadly I don't get to this Forum too often any more..
The Lotus is pretty enjoyable! Sometimes cheap to work on.. Factory oil change (I'm sure they do other stuff while in there?) is around $400, but it's a Toyota Celica engine so once you drop the lower cover panel (5 minute job) it's a normal $30 DIY deal. Lots of motor parts are cheap since they're just Toyota things. Sometimes absurdly expensive - the 2nd day I had it a guy backed into me and cracked the front 'clam', it was $9,500 to replace the thing and paint it.. A used seat (it's just fiberglass with thin padding!) runs around $800 still - apparently the Miata guys buy them up.. Funny thing is, people engine swap these things too! Mainly Honda engines.. Stock is 190 @ the engine, lots of guys are 400+, with at least a couple at 700+. It feels 'similar' to the Fiero in that the engine is in the correct place, and it feels like the car is turning around you. But different, as it's almost 1,000 pounds lighter and feels like there are no shocks on some roads.
I try to stop in from time to time, but life.... you know. I'm always available by email, even if it does take 6 months for me to get to it!
Fellas, I am sure this idea has been thought of, maybe not?, but I was thinking of doing a remove and replaceIng the HVAC systems from a '03 to '07 Trans Am, or any Pontiac of that era into the Fiero. I like this idea because you are not trying to back engineer the older Fiero design into a modern GM design. Any thoughts concerning this approach? Cordially, kevin
Fellas, I am sure this idea has been thought of, maybe not?, but I was thinking of doing a remove and replaceIng the HVAC systems from a '03 to '07 Trans Am, or any Pontiac of that era into the Fiero. I like this idea because you are not trying to back engineer the older Fiero design into a modern GM design. Any thoughts concerning this approach? Cordially, kevin
You mean 93-02 Trans Am I presume (there were no F-bodies after 2002). The problem with the F-body system is that is vacuum controlled. You would need to modify it to be electric/cable controlled, and you would also need to modify the system to fit in the Fiero. All the HVAC systems in GM cars are not the same size and don't use the same mounting points.
It would be easier to retrofit a modern fully electronic control panel and stepper motor for the hot/cool door panel, than to swap in an entire HVAC system.
How about an early 90's Buick? It would be an improvement over stock as far as looks go. As I am looking at this stuff I again realize how obsessive I am about the details on my car lol
Just for info, I did swap in an Electronic HVAC into my '85 Elky, from a '96 Buick Roadmaster. Even in the late 90's, they were still using vacuum to control most of the air direction valves ( only 1 electric motor for the blend door), so this would not work for the Fiero. Some of the higher end models ( Cadillac) started to migrate to all electric motors, as did some like the Riviera. The '95 Riviera I parted out had 5 electric motors driving the valves/doors. The problem you now get into is that 1) very unreliable- head unit is a known failure point in these later cars. 2) most run through a secondary controlling computer,so you need the head unit, secondary computer, wiring, sensors, motors, etc
For grins:
------------------ '87 GT in process, including GA / Seville brakes, Poly Suspension, '95 3800 Series 1 SC ( 225 hp ) 4t60e.
It didn't dawn on me until now that the C4 Corvette had a climate control system available. It's approximately the right era technology wise, not sure if it's actually vacuum or electronic control though. Anyone ever tried or thought of it?
I have installed a digital A/C system in my 86 GT from a 02 Grand Prix. Not a conversion project for the faint of heart. It took me about 6 months to build my system and tested before the installation. I'm very pleased with the finished product.
[This message has been edited by Cajun (edited 02-25-2016).]
Originally posted by kevin: Fellas, I am sure this idea has been thought of, maybe not?, but I was thinking of doing a remove and replaceIng the HVAC systems from a '03 to '07 Trans Am, or any Pontiac of that era into the Fiero. I like this idea because you are not trying to back engineer the older Fiero design into a modern GM design. Any thoughts concerning this approach? Cordially, kevin
quote
Originally posted by dobey: You mean 93-02 Trans Am I presume (there were no F-bodies after 2002). The problem with the F-body system is that is vacuum controlled. You would need to modify it to be electric/cable controlled, and you would also need to modify the system to fit in the Fiero. All the HVAC systems in GM cars are not the same size and don't use the same mounting points.
It would be easier to retrofit a modern fully electronic control panel and stepper motor for the hot/cool door panel, than to swap in an entire HVAC system.
See the link I posted above. jscott1 also has a source for a replacement switch for the vacuum section of the Firebird control. Installing the switch is simple - just remove vacuum assembly and install switch.
It can be done - I know, as I have done it, see link (but I also swap the dash so I have no ideal how well the control will fit into the Fiero's "space". Man I can't believe is has been almost 9 years already since I did that.
NOTE: if your car does NOT have AC, you will need 3 motors (if you want to motorize the hot cold door - I did not and made an assembly that is cable driven, so only used 2 as shown in the link), if you have AC you just need to install the 1 to operate the hot/cold door.
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-25-2016).]
I am still trying to figure out which motor I can use for the temperature control door that I can control using a simple electrical circuit. GM must make about a hundred different of those motors and they all have different characteristics. The handful that I have messed with are the type that just go back and forth but I'm sure someone smarter than me like Riceburner would be able to figure out how to proportionately control them.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-25-2016).]
I am still trying to figure out which motor I can use for the temperature control door that I can control using a simple electrical circuit. GM must make about a hundred different of those motors and they all have different characteristics. The handful that I have messed with are the type that just go back and forth but I'm sure someone smarter than me like Riceburner would be able to figure out how to proportionately control them.
Can't you just use a generic 12v stepper motor that's small enough to be easy to mount and useful for the door, but sturdy enough to not burn out the first time you turn the heat on?
Can't you just use a generic 12v stepper motor that's small enough to be easy to mount and useful for the door, but sturdy enough to not burn out the first time you turn the heat on?
Probably, but you would need to find one with enough torque or a gear box. And a stepper motor requires a stepper motor controller. And that quickly gets beyond my level of understanding. If you piece all of that together like Riceburner did it quickly gets out of the range of practical for a Fiero. He was making them for sale to be used in high dollar rebodies and only sold a handful. Not that I want to sell a bunch of them, but it's more work than I want to do just for a one off either.
Have you thought about using a servo? If you can find one that puts out enough torque and has enough range, all you need to control it is a "servo tester" and 5v if you were trying to source a cheap RC servo.
[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 02-26-2016).]
I am still trying to figure out which motor I can use for the temperature control door that I can control using a simple electrical circuit. GM must make about a hundred different of those motors and they all have different characteristics. The handful that I have messed with are the type that just go back and forth but I'm sure someone smarter than me like Riceburner would be able to figure out how to proportionately control them.
The only thing I can think of is something like a servo like jmbishop mentioned. You might be able to find a linear actuator that is small enough and will work as well.
...or just use my method - hey it worked despite being Mickey Moused.
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-26-2016).]
The only thing I can think of is something like a servo like jmbishop mentioned. You might be able to find a linear actuator that is small enough and will work as well.
...or just use my method - hey it worked despite being Mickey Moused.
I would love to get away from the cable controlling the temperature control door and have an all electrical system. But to control a servo requires a PWM controller and my brain hurts just thinking about that. Learning how to program microcontrollers is on my to do list, but it's not something that is easy to me.
I'm no engineer but I'm starting to grasp PWM. My dad who is an electrical engineer has shown interest in this Idea and I purchased him an arduino that could be used to build a semi an automated fiero hvac controller with digital display.
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