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Got a stupid question by racingfortheson
Started on: 10-11-2014 12:22 AM
Replies: 14 (384 views)
Last post by: wayneman on 10-13-2014 07:35 PM
racingfortheson
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Report this Post10-11-2014 12:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for racingforthesonSend a Private Message to racingforthesonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When you talk to people about their classic cars they always like to say if their car is numbers matching. Should that be a worry when building a Fiero and thinking about an engine swap? Just case palm if I'm being dumb.
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1984whitesc
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Report this Post10-11-2014 12:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1984whitescClick Here to visit 1984whitesc's HomePageClick Here to Email 1984whitescSend a Private Message to 1984whitescEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a stock car, but non of the body panels are original. I stopped caring a while ago lol. I have an 88 with an 87 engine lol. (I don't like the in pan oil filter.)

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NEVERDONE
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Report this Post10-11-2014 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for NEVERDONEClick Here to Email NEVERDONESend a Private Message to NEVERDONEEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Its one of those things thats cool to say but, doesnt really matter unless youre going to sell to a super collector or snding to an auction like Mecums or Barrett Jackson. Other than that, youre everyday car enthusiast is really going to care or take the time to verify it.
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Raydar
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Report this Post10-11-2014 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The only Fieros that that will ever likely matter are completely stock 88 GTs, Formulas, and 84 Indys. Otherwise, not enough people care.
I could be wrong, but it will take a very long time to prove it.

I'm a member of Pontiac Pickers classifieds on FB. The 60s - early 70s stuff is going stratospheric. But only if it's a GTO or Firebird.
The mid 70s stuff is starting to increase. Mostly Firebirds. Only stratospheric if it's in very good condition.
The 80s stuff is still just "old cars", even in great condition.
The Fiero will probably follow this trend, keeping in mind that it was a "niche" vehicle, and a bit off the beaten path. The people looking for "numbers matching" Fieros will be the people who had them in high school and want to relive their youth, and have enough money to make such a purchase. They'll be out there, but relatively few in numbers.
Just MHO.

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Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-11-2014).]

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theogre
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Report this Post10-11-2014 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Before 1987 matching VIN covers very few things. Frame, Main Body, engine and Trans.

1987 and newer. The VIN label is on most things. (Fed rules.) The above plus Every body panel, doors, hood, deck/trunk lid, etc. I think even the cradle but most of labels there got soak w/ oil etc.

If you wreck a panel, GM would not issue a new VIN tag for that panel. New panel from GM came w/ a new tag said replacement where VIN was. (I have one but can't remember exact label and too buried to take picture.)

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dobey
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Report this Post10-11-2014 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It really only matters for musclecars and Corvettes. Fieros aren't hot collector items, so keeping them all original matching numbers parts isn't going to affect their value very much. Only for an extremely rare Fiero (like the 88 Prototype test mule car here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/094715.html), will such things matter.

If you've got an extreme low miles car (like an original 88 that only has lot miles on it), which you wish to keep original and as a collector item hoping that it will one day have value, it might also be something you'd want to do for it as well.

But those are extremely rare birds. For the common > 100K miles Fieros, it's not going to matter, as the general value of Fieros is very unlikely to ever reach the amounts that some of the classics go for.
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css9450
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Report this Post10-12-2014 09:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, "numbers matching" is just another term to get thrown around and abused as the car's owner sees fit.

Another term that's suddenly everywhere (which I can't stand) is "survivor". Guys apply that word to their cars regardless whether its a dusty, rusty unrestored hulk or a perfect frame-off high-dollar restoration. Seriously, I've seen fantastic restorations or custom cars with modern fuel injected V8s, custom interiors, billet everything, smoothed firewall, etc, etc, all labelled as a "survivor". Its become a meaningless term.

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rpro
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Report this Post10-12-2014 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rproClick Here to Email rproSend a Private Message to rproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree the term survivor is kind of stupid. A survivor car is one that was hit headon by a Kenworth, or fished out of the lake bottom and brought back to life. Restoration and clean up does not qualify it as a survivor car.

 
quote
Originally posted by css9450:

Yeah, "numbers matching" is just another term to get thrown around and abused as the car's owner sees fit.

Another term that's suddenly everywhere (which I can't stand) is "survivor". Guys apply that word to their cars regardless whether its a dusty, rusty unrestored hulk or a perfect frame-off high-dollar restoration. Seriously, I've seen fantastic restorations or custom cars with modern fuel injected V8s, custom interiors, billet everything, smoothed firewall, etc, etc, all labelled as a "survivor". Its become a meaningless term.


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olejoedad
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Report this Post10-12-2014 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rpro:

I agree the term survivor is kind of stupid. A survivor car is one that was hit headon by a Kenworth, or fished out of the lake bottom and brought back to life. Restoration and clean up does not qualify it as a survivor car.



I disagree.....your description would be a rebuilt wreck.

A survivor is an original, unmolested and unrestored car in very good condition. It survived!

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fierofool
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Report this Post10-12-2014 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:


I disagree.....your description would be a rebuilt wreck.

A survivor is an original, unmolested and unrestored car in very good condition. It survived!


Agree! And matching numbers on an 87 or 88 could be beneficial in knowing if the car has been damaged in an accident. Granted there's Auto-Chek or CarFax, but not everyone has access, so checking numbers on the spot would be easier. To me, it would make the car worth a little more than one that for whatever reason had a bunch of non-stock panels.
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css9450
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Report this Post10-12-2014 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

A survivor is an original, unmolested and unrestored car in very good condition. It survived!


I agree... That's what the word is supposed to mean. But increasingly I am seeing people calling everything a "survivor", like I said above. Engine swaps, custom repaints, frame-off restorations. Everything.

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Report this Post10-12-2014 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:


Agree! And matching numbers on an 87 or 88 could be beneficial in knowing if the car has been damaged in an accident. Granted there's Auto-Chek or CarFax, but not everyone has access, so checking numbers on the spot would be easier. To me, it would make the car worth a little more than one that for whatever reason had a bunch of non-stock panels.


It helps if you know to look for the stickers on all the panels. Unless of course the car has ever been repainted (properly). For a 25+ year old car, repainting is hardly unheard of, especially on one in great condition; unless it's been an extreme low miles storage queen and never really driven. If it's spent any reasonable time outdoors, then UV damage is inevitable. Even just sitting at a car show for 6 hours a day on weekends will take its toll after 25 years.
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fierofool
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Report this Post10-12-2014 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My 87 has been repainted and the stickers are still visible. I asked MAACO to cover them before painting and that was about the only thing they did correctly. The VIN numbers are still legible.
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racingfortheson
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Report this Post10-13-2014 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for racingforthesonSend a Private Message to racingforthesonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So where are the numbers on the engine to check?
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wayneman
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Report this Post10-13-2014 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for waynemanClick Here to Email waynemanSend a Private Message to waynemanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


The people looking for "numbers matching" Fieros will be the people who had them in high school and want to relive their youth, and have enough money to make such a purchase.

That would be me! Except I was just out of high school when I bought my formula

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