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Hunk-a-junk L67/F23 '86 GT project by kawana
Started on: 08-31-2014 10:17 PM
Replies: 32 (1498 views)
Last post by: hypo327 on 08-09-2016 07:58 PM
kawana
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Report this Post08-31-2014 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I thought I'd finally get around to starting a build thread, to hopefully keep me motivated. I bought my '86 last summer, dropped the Duke, and let it sit a full year before I touched it again. During that year, I bought myself a low mileage L67, and an 88' cradle. I was just about to put it up for sale, when I decided to sit in it again. As soon as I did, I remembered why I loved these cars, and I knew I had to see it through.

I've affectionately named this car 'Hunk-a-junk', since that's what my boss keeps calling it when he see's it in the yard.

So here's where I'm at.

The car:






I bought it for a whopping $200, and that is reflected in its condition. It's not all bad though. The underside is virtually rust free, just a little surface rust in the wheel wells. The windows are all good, sunroof seal seems to be in good shape, and the carpet and seats are decent.

The bad bits: The paint is toast, theres green mossy stuff everywhere, the dash and center console are so-so (but I'm planning an interior swap way in the future).

Basically its a great starting point for what I have in mind. Cosmetic stuff will be addressed in the future. My main focus is getting it in good working order first.



I just pulled this F23 out of an '06 cobalt ss, aswell as another F23 out of an 02 cavalier. I had originally planned on swapping the bellhousings in the yard and only paying for 1 transaxle, but after 12 solid hours in the sun I coughed up the extra $130 and bought both. I justified getting both by telling myself that I'll have a backup if I break one.

On a side note, the day after I bought those, the yard had a $90 sale on all tranny's. Figures.



Here's the star of this project! A very clean L67. I haven't had a chance to tear into it, but from what I've checked, it looks to be in great shape. (As it should be, with a supposed 20,000km's on it).

Now, here's my first question to you L67 experts. The Previous owner says that he's fairly sure the heads were taken off at some point, but can't say for sure. I've read that you should avoid taking the heads off if there's no issues, but I'm not sure why that is. Could someone tell me the reason why they shouldn't be taken off? I think at this point, I'll have to assume they were, and take them off again when I replace all the gaskets.

So thats where I stand with this project. The only thing holding me back right now is money. I think the next thing I'll tackle will be to get the engine all freshened up and put back together will all new gaskets and maybe a paint job.

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 09-01-2014).]

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Angellightning
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Report this Post09-01-2014 12:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AngellightningSend a Private Message to AngellightningEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That looks like an '86 SE 2M6...?

I love the color combo. Red with tan interior and the tan accented wheels...
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kawana
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Report this Post09-01-2014 01:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Haha, oh ya you're right. I thought the 86' GT's still had the notchback rear. Guess it is an SE. Gunna have to change the title.
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kawana
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Report this Post09-19-2014 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't want this to end up in the archives before I even get started on it. Some progress has been made. Mounts are coming alone nicely.

Here's the mockup for my rear tranny mount. I need to make a few tweaks, and add some gussets.



This is part of the front tranny mount, and a mockup of where it will eventually bolt to the tranny. This is just a test piece, the real thing will be made out of 1/4in.



This is the begining of the engine mount. I'm still working on how I want to mount it to the engine.



Thats pretty much where I'm at right now. The engine and tranny are bolted together for mockup purposes. I still need a clutch among many other things.

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 09-19-2014).]

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kawana
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Report this Post09-19-2014 11:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Also, here's a few pictures of the toys I get to play with at my work. Having all these tools around is awesome.

The brake press, which can bend up to 1/2in steel



Bandsaw



Our sheer, which can cut up to 1/4in steel or 3/16 ss



The lathe. It's ancient, but It's built like a tank. I haven't had a chance to play with this yet, but I plan on using it in this project in some way.


Haven't used this one yet either.



My favorite toy by far. The waterjet! This is the one thing I am trained on, and it can do amazing things.


There's also tons of welders and steel for days. I'm an electrician by trade, but I'm lucky enough to get to play with all these things.
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kawana
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Report this Post09-27-2014 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This weeks progress:

All mounts are done. All are made of 1/4in steel and should be more than strong enough.

Today i took a sand blaster to the 88 cradle in preperation for a paint job next week. The engine and tranny will be getting painted next week as well.
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kawana
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Report this Post09-27-2014 11:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can anyone explain why there is a gap between the block and the tranny? The shaft is hitting on the inside, but theres a 1/4in gap between the bellhousing and engine block.


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Report this Post09-28-2014 12:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Stubby79Send a Private Message to Stubby79Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kawana:





One glance at this photo and I could tell you were somewhere near or on the west cost, even before seeing your location under your name.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post09-28-2014 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kawana:

Can anyone explain why there is a gap between the block and the tranny? The shaft is hitting on the inside, but theres a 1/4in gap between the bellhousing and engine block.




Not a good sign. Good idea to separate the engine from the transmission and do a complete inspection. Check to see if the flex plate is straight and that the end of the torque converter also sits square with the end of the bell housing. Is the torque converter pushed all the way into the trans? Check for any cracks in the engine block and in the trans case. If you are lucky the bolts just came loose but if it was driven this way for any length of time; at a minimum the flex plate could have been bent or stressed to the point of weakness.
Reassembly tips:
1 If flex plate is replaced. Make sure to torque retaining bolts to factory spec.
2. Grease stub of torque converter ( part that fits into transmission) push in an rotate a bit until the converter sits all the way in the trans.
3. Align trans to engine and push it in place on the locating studs. Put on 12 MM bolt in place to hold the powertrain together. Put all bolts in place ( watch for different lengths in different places. ) and torque to factory specs.
4. Replace the three hardened flex plate to converter bolts. Use Locktite on them if you reuse the old bolts.
lastly remember that there is also a trans bolt on the opposite side of the block where the tail shaft of the transmission is. Don't forget about it or you can break something

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post09-28-2014 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dennis, he is trying to install a manual transmission, not an auto...

kawana, check the end of the crankshaft to see if there is a pressed in bushing to support/center the torque converter (picture of the end of the crankshaft would be helpful). If there is, removing it might get you the needed clearance. If there isn't one, then you will likely have to grind off the splines or just cut the input shaft shorter... but before doing this, PM justinbart as he runs a 3800/F23 setup and can tell you want is needed.

Remember, you are trying to mate a transmission that GM never designed or intended to go with the 3800, some need for modification should be expected.

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kawana
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Report this Post09-28-2014 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks, I'll check that out. I'll get a photo of the end of the crank shaft as well.
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Report this Post09-28-2014 05:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for eph_kayClick Here to Email eph_kaySend a Private Message to eph_kayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you already done the bell housing swap? Im curious if the ecotec version has a longer input shaft for some reason…

Chris
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Report this Post09-28-2014 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseClick Here to Email exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Get the engine installed, THEN take your boss for a ride and see what he calls it !
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kawana
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Report this Post09-28-2014 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by eph_kay:

Have you already done the bell housing swap? Im curious if the ecotec version has a longer input shaft for some reason…

Chris


I have done the swap anr I believe they are the same. Ill take a side by side picture tomorrow.
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kawana
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Report this Post09-28-2014 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

kawana

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quote
Originally posted by exoticse:
Get the engine installed, THEN take your boss for a ride and see what he calls it !


Haha, yeah. Its pretty rough right now. Its got its own mossy ecosystem growing, from sitting out in this damp BC weather. All that will be changed in time.
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Capt Fiero
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Report this Post09-28-2014 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Capt FieroClick Here to visit Capt Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Capt FieroSend a Private Message to Capt FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is a dumb thing to check but even veteran mechanics have been caught by it, make sure that all the dowel pins match up, or have slots deep enough to go into. (The alignment tubes in the trans or engine) I was swapping a trans every 6 months in my V8 and on at least one occasion had a dowel stick in the motor and the new trans had its proper one, so obviously it would not mate up. However in your case, if one of the ones on the bell housing is odd, maybe?)

Other note, I remember reading just the other day that when doing an F23 swap, the flywheel had to be machined thinner" Unless I misread it and that is only for the F40 swap.

Either way I am glad that the car I sold you is going to good use. Did the guy from Alberta ever get in contact with you about the trans.

------------------
857GT Part 85GT Part 87GT Part Caddy, 93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Now with Nitrous. Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics For Sale $4000, Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

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kawana
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Report this Post09-28-2014 10:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Capt, no I haven't heard anything from him. Still have the engine and trans, I just cant bring myself to scrap a limited resource like Fiero parts. Once it's gone its gone. The thing about my situation is that the shaft is whats stopping it from being bolted up flush to the block. I'll check for the dowel pins, but I dont think that would fix the issue. I'll take a closer look tomorrow and take pictures.
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kawana
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Report this Post09-30-2014 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So this is a comparison between the two transmissions with swapped bellhousings. Maybe I'll need to make an adapter plate to space it out?

Cobalt tranny with Cavalier bellhousing:



Cavalier tranny with Cobalt bellhousing:



I'm not sure if theres anything unusual about the end of the end of the crank:



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kawana
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Report this Post09-30-2014 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

kawana

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I decided just to do a little painting today. I spent way too long scrubbing this tranny with degreaser, but it turned out pretty nice.


Painted the supercharger a glossy candy apple red:


Put a few coats of undercoating on the cradle. I'm going to give it a few coats of paint on top of that before I call it good.
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Report this Post09-30-2014 06:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like it is time to clearance the input shaft so it will fit (or cut it shorter).
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Report this Post09-30-2014 07:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I remembered grinding down the splines so it fit in the crank
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kawana
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Report this Post09-30-2014 11:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How do I figure out how much I need to grind off?
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ignorant prodigy
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Report this Post09-30-2014 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ignorant prodigyClick Here to Email ignorant prodigySend a Private Message to ignorant prodigyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
page 2? http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/121743-2.html

disclaimer.. i havent read this post entirely so I would confirm it applies
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kawana
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Report this Post10-01-2014 01:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I realized I didn't post pictures of the finished tranny mounts, so here they are:



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Report this Post10-01-2014 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ignorant prodigy:

page 2? http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/121743-2.html

disclaimer.. i havent read this post entirely so I would confirm it applies


yup

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
10.91@133.1

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kawana
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Report this Post10-12-2014 11:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump to keep this out of the archives.

Not a ton of progress this week. I'm going to have to sandblast and repaint the supercharger with a high temp paint.

I spent this weekend trying to take care of some trunk rust I found. I am no welder, but I like to play around with it. This 18-20 guage sheet metal is a nightmare to weld!
Don't laugh at my welding. I had to do hundreds of tacks rather than laying a nice bead, but over all I'm pretty happy with it.





This is the other side that I still have to take care of. The rust had eaten all the way through, so there was no salvaging it.


I'm tempted to rivet the next patch, but we'll see.

Does anyone know what sort of sealant is used in our trunks? Do I need to use some special silicone to seal any gaps? There are some area's I cant weld properly, so I'm just gunna goop over them. Can I use any kind of silicone?
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Report this Post10-13-2014 04:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You built some sturdy looking mounts! Nice work.
Good luck with your build.

I was going to ask about the frame rails, but I see that you started a thread.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-13-2014).]

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Report this Post10-13-2014 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for virtuetoviceSend a Private Message to virtuetoviceEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your welds are just fine. After all, they don't need to be pretty to hold a piece of metal to another piece of metal :P
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kawana
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Report this Post10-22-2014 05:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A little more rust repair this week. This was the former battery tray:


Cut. It.out! Full house? No?


The patch. Also my first attempt at forming sheet metal. Im pretty happy with it.


Holding it in place. Havent finished welding it up yet.


Also repainted the rear bumper thing. No pictures of that.

Heres a shot of the underside. Its actually in greag shape, I was supprised.

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 10-22-2014).]

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Report this Post10-22-2014 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Damn this thread threw me back to 9+ years ago. First the press brake... then the hyd mech bandsaw. The shear, lathes, mills and the pattern cutter (I forget the "actual name"). It all looks just like or very close tot he equipment I used working at Rettig Machine in Ca. before I moved to Ut. The machine shop had a fabrication shop also, so we had all those machines. I miss having access to all of them. There are times when I'm working on some of the tractor equipment where I need to make a bracket or something and I wish I still had a press brake or the apron brake they had at Rettig . I used to make so many parts for freinds who were into tuning or lowered mini trucks.

Part of the machine side.





Backside of the press brake and apron brake on the fab side.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 10-22-2014).]

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kawana
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Report this Post10-23-2014 07:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageClick Here to Email kawanaSend a Private Message to kawanaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No new work to the car, but I made a vanity plate for future car shows and what not.

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 10-23-2014).]

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FieroFastBackL67
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Report this Post05-30-2015 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroFastBackL67Click Here to Email FieroFastBackL67Send a Private Message to FieroFastBackL67Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Kawana I phoned you like a month or 2 ago because I saw your car on Craigslist for sale and I wanted to buy it but you told me you decided not to sell it and finish it. How's the build going? Lets get an update ;-)
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hypo327
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Report this Post08-09-2016 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hypo327Click Here to Email hypo327Send a Private Message to hypo327Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For those of you who may want to know what happened to Kawana's nice 3800/Fiero project...well, it went to a good Fiero lover's home. He sold everything to my son Justin, for $700 American. It seems his boss gave him an altimatum: you or that engine has to leave the warehouse, so he had to call it quits and sell it, much to my son's benefit. So, my son got a really good deal on a really good engine, two trannys, cradle, axles, and other parts. Justin plans on putting it in a really nice '88 GT, as soon as he finds one for the right price.

Right now, I am finishing up my 2003 3800sc II in my garage. As soon as I install my engine, then we will move Justin's engine in my garage, put it on a motor stand, and he will finish Kawana's engine project and get it ready to pop into another '88, like I said, when he finds a good one for the right price.

I don't have a thread on my engine build, but you can see my progress on face book 3800sc/3800 swap page. Justin may continue this thread with Kawana's permission, or start another thread. I don't know.

The coolest thing about these little cars, are how they tend to bring father's and sons, and father's and daughters together. My son bought his first car when he was 17, an '85 GT, for $1200. He put a new clutch in it, and began to accumulate great memories with his Fiero love affair. I also fell in love with driving his car, and the looks, so I found a really nice low mileage red '86 GT, and bought it for $3500. I've since put another $2500+/- in it. Eibachs, poly mounts throughout, KYB shocks, Mr. Mikes seats, to name a few. I did my own 3.4 swap, and now I'm doing a 3800sc swap. Justin and I have worked together on our Fieros. Justin won 3rd place in daily driver at the 2009 NW Fiero Fest, and I won a first in costom class in 2011, at the same show, held in Richland, WA every year. Bottom line...our Fieros have given us a fun hobby to do together. We will probably continue to do so.

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