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Stupid water pump... ! by ltlfrari
Started on: 07-04-2014 08:12 PM
Replies: 14 (569 views)
Last post by: Patrick on 07-08-2014 04:28 PM
ltlfrari
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Report this Post07-04-2014 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Turns out the squeal of the banshee was not the a/c but the water pump going out so I got a new one from the Fiero store. I was replacing it today and while I was tightening up the bolts with the torque wrench so as not to over tighten, the lug at the top just above the pipe broke off. Admittedly it's the one that has the gap behind it but it should not have broken like that. The aluminum looks very grainy where it broke so a bad casting or just poor quality metal, I don't know. It did mean I had to spend another hour cleaning the new gasket off the mounting surface face and now I've got to go get another pump tomorrow. Fortunately it looks like the local autozone has one in stock so I might get the car back on the road soon after all.
Oh, and my pretty new windscreen (a couple of years old maybe) cracked the other week too after getting a 'very small' chip from a stone. The summer heat was too much for it. I cam out one morning and there's a nice crack in the screen!
There's always something with these cars.

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Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!

Dave

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1MohrFiero
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Report this Post07-05-2014 07:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1MohrFieroSend a Private Message to 1MohrFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I feel your pain. Just installed my third water pump in four years. I did the first on in the car and stripped the middle tiny bolt, so the next two were done after dropping the cradle. It takes longer but I have better access to everything. Sorry for the windshield. That just sucks.

Maybe when you are finished the rest of your summer will be filled with long fun cruises.

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-05-2014 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dave, we are dealing with cars 25-30 years old. As such, expect the unexpected. When things go bad its best to just take a break sit back, enjoy a beer or a glass of wine and unwind. Then you can go back later, take your time to fix the problem.
If you don't already have the tips for replacing a water pump, here are three that may help.
1, put plastic covering over the fiberglass engine insulation around the work area so you don't have to deal with the itch that comes with touching it.
2. On reinstallation, always put a sealer on the water pump bolt threads as they can leak without using one. I use Permatex non hardening gasket sealer.
3. Inspect the WP bolts for rust. They can easily break off when tightening.

and consider using a timing cover holding jig that will prevent the cover from moving, breaking loose and causing an oil leak.
As for the windshield, not much that we can do there.

BTW, are you Dave I. originally from NJ that had the 308 replica?

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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ltlfrari
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Report this Post07-05-2014 01:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dennis,
All insulation long gone, so no itch!
Sealer on the bolt threads
I did manage to strip the threads in the block on one of the smaller bolts at the bottom, I'm just hoping it does not leak, otherwise I'll be doing all this again Arggggghh!

I tried for an hour plus to get the holding jig to fit, swung the alt bracket out of the wey etc. In the end I figured a sensor (temp maybe?) in the head was getting in the way and rather than risk breaking 'that' I just went without the jig. I've doine it that way before and it seems to be fine so we shall see.

Sadly not the Dave with a 308 replica and if I had had one it would still be mine, no 'had' about it!

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Dave

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Patrick
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Report this Post07-05-2014 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ltlfrari:

I tried for an hour plus to get the holding jig to fit, swung the alt bracket out of the wey etc. In the end I figured a sensor (temp maybe?) in the head was getting in the way and rather than risk breaking 'that' I just went without the jig. I've doine it that way before and it seems to be fine so we shall see.


This might've helped.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick in This thread:

Speaking about the clamp, I have never seen an image anywhere on the 'net (including Pennock's) of one actually being used. Behold...this is where it goes!



And yes, you install the clamp before you loosen any water pump bolts!




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ltlfrari
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Report this Post07-06-2014 07:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There's a sensor that's in the ay on mine. I did not want to risk breaking it off in the head or anything like that so went without it but that picture helps a lot, thanks.

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Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!

Dave

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pontiackid86
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Report this Post07-06-2014 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Click Here to Email pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did it 3 times on my 87.... got sick of it so the last one was a very minor crack... JB weld seems to be holding.

As for the clamp, I read up on the procedure, the only engines the required the clamp were the very early 2.8's like in the citations and all. they did away with the timing gear cover gasket issue during the replacement of the water pump.

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 07-06-2014).]

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x-thumpr-x
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Report this Post07-06-2014 11:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for x-thumpr-xClick Here to visit x-thumpr-x's HomePageClick Here to Email x-thumpr-xSend a Private Message to x-thumpr-xEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've never used that clamp to change a pump before, car are old enough they don't want to come apart now freely with a little force. I have broken that one tab that sits above the inlet pipe (on 85-86 V6). Last time I changed the pump I cut off one section of a nut to slide down in the hole to take up the space then tightened down the bolt. Didn't break that time during install. There is a space there because older GM 2.8 engines had a stud there and a nut to tighten the timing cover first then another nut to tighten the water pump when it was installed.
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-06-2014 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pontiackid86:

As for the clamp, I read up on the procedure, the only engines the required the clamp were the very early 2.8's like in the citations and all. they did away with the timing gear cover gasket issue during the replacement of the water pump.


Unless you can prove otherwise (with official documentation), I would think it wise to continue to use a clamp to hold the timing cover tight against the block when replacing the water pump. The timing cover has two water passages that go into the front of the block. There are gaskets (probably paper) that were used to make the seal. In a lot of cases, the original 25 year old gaskets are still being used. Do as you please, but I know I wouldn't want to take a chance that the seal might be broken when all those bolts are removed to change out the water pump. That would then necessitate the removal of the timing cover as well to replace those gaskets. Seems like a lot of work... which could've been avoided by simply using a clamp in the first place.
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fffttt1
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Report this Post07-06-2014 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fffttt1Click Here to Email fffttt1Send a Private Message to fffttt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Changed my second 2.8 water pump in 5yrs. and swear that I'll perform and engine swap next time..........it's got to be easier!!!
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ltlfrari
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Report this Post07-07-2014 11:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, it leaks! But it seems, not from the stripped bolt area but further round the pump!
Oh, and to add insult to injury, it still howls like a wolf at the moon so I have NO idea what's causing the squeal, only thing left at this point is the alternator!
I'll be pissed if it turns out it was that all along.
Really feel like throwing in the towel with Fieros at this point. I'm getting too old to be doing this, I am still getting over working on the thing all week end and I ache in places that should not ache!

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Dave

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Report this Post07-08-2014 09:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dave I call it the Fiero Two Step. One step forward, two backwards !!!! Seems like when repairing one problem on these cars, I often discover several other necessary repairs along the way.
-Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 07-08-2014).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post07-08-2014 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ltlfrari:

Well, it leaks! But it seems, not from the stripped bolt area but further round the pump!


Hopefully it's not leaking now from between the timing cover and the block.

 
quote
Originally posted by ltlfrari:

Oh, and to add insult to injury, it still howls like a wolf at the moon so I have NO idea what's causing the squeal, only thing left at this point is the alternator!


A mechanics stethoscope will tell you in short order where the "howl" is coming from.

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ltlfrari
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Report this Post07-08-2014 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pretty sure it's from the pump to timing cover based on where I saw the water running but I think I'm going to have to get me one of those stethoscopes. A piece of wood in my ear is not working!
I'm going to give it one more try (or maybe two LOL) but not this week, but after that I just might give up, I'm getting too old and it's knackering me working out there in the heat!

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Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!

Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

[This message has been edited by ltlfrari (edited 07-08-2014).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post07-08-2014 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ltlfrari:

I think I'm going to have to get me one of those stethoscopes.


Yeah, it's not as if the price is prohibitive.
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