No, I can't remember if it had that sticker. Been waaayyyy to long. Curious if the "subsequent owner" was put on new cars or ones that had issues. I bought(ordered) mine new. Great find!!! It will at least give the nay-sayers something to consider.
GM may have been looking at how the cars perform over a long period of time. It doesn't mean there was a Fiero buy-back program, but it does show that GM was monitoring certain vehicles and I would bet it wasn't just the Fiero.
GM may have been looking at how the cars perform over a long period of time. It doesn't mean there was a Fiero buy-back program, but it does show that GM was monitoring certain vehicles and I would bet it wasn't just the Fiero.
Because some people believe only what they want to....
Look, you seem to believe GM bought back Fieros under some secret program, but yet, you have no proof and NO ONE else has heard about such a program. I am proposing a more logical explanation of what may have happened (and it is backed up by this STAT sticker). IF... GM bought your fiero, it wasn't because of a buy-back program. It may have been part of a monitoring program, or the fact that that day, they were looking to by A fiero... not your fiero, but any fiero to do some testing, or evaluation.
I am guessing you already gave me a negative, but it is rumors like these is what annoys me. Just like mythical 86.5GT or the "Suspension by Lotus" stories... they are all started by people who want to believe that they have something few others have.
If you can give us documented proof, I will support you, but until that point, it is just another rumor or a conversation/deal that was mis-understood and when looking back it has only gotten more "intriguing".
Because some people believe only what they want to....
Look, you seem to believe GM bought back Fieros under some secret program, but yet, you have no proof and NO ONE else has heard about such a program. I am proposing a more logical explanation of what may have happened (and it is backed up by this STAT sticker). IF... GM bought your fiero, it wasn't because of a buy-back program. It may have been part of a monitoring program, or the fact that that day, they were looking to by A fiero... not your fiero, but any fiero to do some testing, or evaluation.
I am guessing you already gave me a negative, but it is rumors like these is what annoys me. Just like mythical 86.5GT or the "Suspension by Lotus" stories... they are all started by people who want to believe that they have something few others have.
If you can give us documented proof, I will support you, but until that point, it is just another rumor or a conversation/deal that was mis-understood and when looking back it has only gotten more "intriguing".
Sheesh, there you go again.
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Because some people believe only what they want to....
And that is exactly what you are doing, isn't it; believing what you want, that is your right. NO WHERE did I say there was a secret buy-back program. In my initial statement I asked if anyone knew of a buy back program and related my experience.
1. A proposal, is a proposal, nothing more; you are NOT giving a proposal but a directive that all knowledge is within you and if you do not know about it it can't be. THAT is not proposal!
2. You are not logical in thinking that things can only happen in one way(your way of thinking) If it was a buy-back program OR a monitoring program what is the difference when they (corporate) bought the car from me. The voucher I was sent was good for any GM dealer (You must have missed that part)
3. When was it ever said (by me)they were looking to buy my Fiero only car expressly from me as you allude to
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they were looking to by A fiero... not your fiero, but any fiero to do some testing, or evaluation.
4.
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I am guessing you already gave me a negative.
No, I have not given you a negative, you can check with Cliff, I publicly give permission for him to give you that information. It is your open assumption though that I gave you a negative, that kind of stuff is what can start a rumor.
5. You must think that YOUR support is needed or is important to me.
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If you can give us documented proof, I will support you
It is not!!! I have a life and do not live it out on this forum. It is a great place for people to share ideas, but not to give directives or bash others. BTW, What 'us' are you talking about? Who do you think you are speaking for? I will, however, defend my personal integrity against your rants. Neither do I have to give proof to you in an a time-frame acceptable to you about anything. As I said, I have a life. You have a large number of posts so I assume you have been a great help to others, I applaud that. But to think you can not be wrong or mistaken is a character flaw. You were not there when this transaction occurred, and I am NOT attempting to force anyone to believe that it happened, or not. If you have not attempted to find out if it could have happened you are not within the logical parameters of this post. I challenge you to give proof that it did NOT happen. When you give documented proof that it did NOT happen I will support your position, and I welcome you to share it with us in this post.
If you still have the VIN of the car, CARFAX or Autocheck can tell you its history after it left your hands. If you don't have the VIN, your insurance policy may be able to provide you with it.
I can happily report to you I now have the VIN number. I am surprised they sent it to me in the mail rather than calling me back or emailing it to me (I got it from my insurance company). It sat on the desk for a few days because I thought it was a payment reminder.
Now the fun begins. Does anyone know of a cheap place to get Carfax & Autochek? Any dealers out there that are willing to run this number?
[This message has been edited by hcforde (edited 06-10-2014).]
NO WHERE did I say there was a secret buy-back program. In my initial statement I asked if anyone knew of a buy back program and related my experience.
Hmmm
You said it was a Fiero Buy Back and you are asking how many were bought back, as if this program existed. You didn't ask IF Fieros were being bought by GM. I added the word "secret" because at this point, that is what it seems to be.
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Originally posted by hcforde:
My wife was pregnant with our first daughter so the Fiero was not going to work for us anymore. We needed 2 family type cars so we went shopping. When the GM dealer learned we had a 1984 Fiero, we were given a number to call about the Fiero buy-back program. We negotiated a price directly with GM and they offered us a check OR a larger sum if we bought another GM car. When I asked what they were going to do with the Fiero's they bught back, I was told they were going to be crushed.
Is there any information concerning how many Fiero's were bought back and crushed by GM?
quote
Originally posted by hcforde:
1. A proposal, is a proposal, nothing more; you are NOT giving a proposal but a directive that all knowledge is within you and if you do not know about it it can't be. THAT is not proposal!
I am giving a more logical answer (proposal) than "fiero buy-back program", based on the information that is given (or the lack of others who had their Fiero bought back).
quote
Originally posted by hcforde:
2. You are not logical in thinking that things can only happen in one way(your way of thinking) If it was a buy-back program OR a monitoring program what is the difference when they (corporate) bought the car from me. The voucher I was sent was good for any GM dealer (You must have missed that part)
There is a big difference.... a Fiero buy-back means it was only Fieros that were purchased. A vehicle monitoring program means GM will buy various cars back. I have a few vouchers from GM for use on any GM vehicle. I just had to complain to them about the cost to repair my Aztek and they sent me a voucher. There wasn't an Aztek Buy-back program. It is just good customer relations.
quote
Originally posted by hcforde:
5. You must think that YOUR support is needed or is important to me. It is not!!! I have a life and do not live it out on this forum. It is a great place for people to share ideas, but not to give directives or bash others. BTW, What 'us' are you talking about? Who do you think you are speaking for? I will, however, defend my personal integrity against your rants. Neither do I have to give proof to you in an a time-frame acceptable to you about anything. As I said, I have a life. You have a large number of posts so I assume you have been a great help to others, I applaud that. But to think you can not be wrong or mistaken is a character flaw. You were not there when this transaction occurred, and I am NOT attempting to force anyone to believe that it happened, or not. If you have not attempted to find out if it could have happened you are not within the logical parameters of this post. I challenge you to give proof that it did NOT happen. When you give documented proof that it did NOT happen I will support your position, and I welcome you to share it with us in this post.
I said I won't support you (your belief) without proof. You have no reason to lie, but you may not have understood the true reason for the voucher and it has been a long time, as you said, so your recollection may be slightly different.
I didn't say I was right... or wrong. I am only looking at the available information and the most logical conclusion (based on what you and others have said) is that there was no Fiero buy-back program. Occam's razor.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
As for me, I had an 84 during the same time and no offer was made to me. The Pontiac dealer never mentioned any such program when I took the car in for service, recalls, new car shopping, etc. I know of others with '84s and they were never told of such programs when then went to the dealer. My experience (and others here on this forum) does not support a Fiero Buy-Back program. I also believe you think I am attacking you. That is not true. I am just tired of rumors about the car. Now we have a rumor that "GM was buying back Fieros in the early 90s and crushing them"....sigh
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 06-10-2014).]
Ok I know I'm new but this kinda thing is very common I have a cousin who works for ford who takes used ford cars apart to find weak spots or spots they feel they can make changes to.
A few years back ford bought back a beat and worn f150 with 700k on the truck and its my cousins job to find out why it lasted that long.
For all we know gm could have wanted data on some part that they couldnt get in testing.
Been busy with putting up a fence, xeriscaping the yard, building a storage shed for my Fiero parts and building a pergola...............and this //www.fiero.nl/forum/F...000326.html#lastpost . I am looking for a cheap way to get carfax info rather than paying $30-$40 because I have acquired the VIN from my insurance agent. Hope to have all these things done by mid-august. Then I can have some spare time to work on my Fieros. I will try to find a dealer that can run a VIN for me. My spouse just bought another car from the GMC dealer here in Austin, 2nd car in 2 years time. First one was totaled. Yeah, maybe I can get a favor!
I went to the dealer and they ran the VIN through Carfax.
After they got it, it was salvaged. Perfectly good car, 5 years and less than 30,000 miles. The "severe damage" and basic warranty voidance pretty much tells the tale.
In Texas the salvage/junk title was issued which is standard procedure.
[This message has been edited by hcforde (edited 06-23-2014).]
What exactly were you expecting from carfax anyway. I gave my story, and here we have the end of the cars history. No one else owned it after me. The dealership did not sell it or there would have been a change of title and registration info. READ THE TITLE HISTORY & ADDITIONAL HISTORY!!! That is what fills in the blanks.
What exactly were you expecting from carfax anyway.
Don't ask me; I wasn't expecting much from a Carfax on a car that may have been gone for 10-15 or more years anyway. Carfax is only as good as each state's record-keeping.
Odd that there is no date or mileage reported as to when it was scrapped.
I had a car I wrecked and scrapped in 2004. Like yours, the Carfax only listed it as scrapped with no date or mileage reported. Most troubling, though, was on mine it had the last reported mileage as 69,000, which is clearly wrong since the car was wrecked at 318,000 miles. No idea where the 69,000 came from. But it casts a huge doubt on anything else I'd read on there.
Carfax is fine if you're shopping for a used car where the date will still be fresh. But its useless for vehicles that have been gone for 10, 15 or more years and the state has purged its database of records.
Don't ask me; I wasn't expecting much from a Carfax on a car that may have been gone for 10-15 or more years anyway. Carfax is only as good as each state's record-keeping.
Odd that there is no date or mileage reported as to when it was scrapped.
I had a car I wrecked and scrapped in 2004. Like yours, the Carfax only listed it as scrapped with no date or mileage reported. Most troubling, though, was on mine it had the last reported mileage as 69,000, which is clearly wrong since the car was wrecked at 318,000 miles. No idea where the 69,000 came from. But it casts a huge doubt on anything else I'd read on there.
Carfax is fine if you're shopping for a used car where the date will still be fresh. But its useless for vehicles that have been gone for 10, 15 or more years and the state has purged its database of records.
There is also no record of it being titled to anyone else or registered. I was the only owner of the vehicle and I brought it from Michigan to Texas in 1989. GM did not have to take title ownership and register the vehicle. There are different rules for dealers/manufacturers of titled goods. It was apparently purchased by GM and immediately scrapped as I stated when I started this thread. I think that any reasonable person looking at this carfax would come to that conclusion unless they want to doubt that GM had anything to do with it. We can choose to believe what we wish. In the past, some people choose to believe that the world was flat, they could not comprehend anything else. What they wanted to believe did not make it true. They were predisposed to that idea and they clung to it tightly It kinda goes back to looking at that principle of a cup being half empty or half full.
If anyone is looking for Hulki Aldikacti to make an appearance on this forum and declare in a signed affidavit that the company did actually buy and scrap them that probably is not going to happen.
BTW, are you a member of N.I.F.E.? If so you probably know Paul Vargyas. Good guy. I bought a 1988 GT from him a year ago and drove it down here to Austin. Not a single problem.
Yes, it was purchased and the title was marked as scrap. It still does not support a "GM Buy-Back program for Fieros back in the '90s".
Do you know what the title processing procedure is for GM? They may automatically list the title as scrap (what a junk yard would do, if they had to transfer a title). GM has no interest in titling any car they purchase back (as part of an investigation, not a "buy back and crush"). The car could be sitting in a warehouse somewhere for all we know. My guess is that it was bought to be reviewed, disassembled, evaluated and then disposed of. There is no evidence of this, but this seems more likely to be the case, as it would fit well into a business model.
I have met Hulki multiple times and I was heavily involved in the Michigan Fiero Club (and I know Paul, from back in the fiero.org days). No one has ever mentioned a Fiero Buy Back program. What you have is an interesting story, but the carfax doesn't state who bought the vehicle. Heck, maybe it was bought by someone and totaled on their first ride out... for all we know. I would assume it was bought by GM, because you said it was and carfax says it was purchased. I can't argue that. I can't support the idea that this was under a "Fiero buy-back program", though.
Call me skeptical, I know. I don't believe the world is flat, as the evidence says otherwise. People will believe what they want, but I believe looking at the evidence and the simplest explanation based on that evidence.
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Originally posted by hcforde:
There is also no record of it being titled to anyone else or registered. I was the only owner of the vehicle and I brought it from Michigan to Texas in 1989. GM did not have to take title ownership and register the vehicle. There are different rules for dealers/manufacturers of titled goods. It was apparently purchased by GM and immediately scrapped as I stated when I started this thread. I think that any reasonable person looking at this carfax would come to that conclusion unless they want to doubt that GM had anything to do with it. We can choose to believe what we wish. In the past, some people choose to believe that the world was flat, they could not comprehend anything else. What they wanted to believe did not make it true. They were predisposed to that idea and they clung to it tightly It kinda goes back to looking at that principle of a cup being half empty or half full.
If anyone is looking for Hulki Aldikacti to make an appearance on this forum and declare in a signed affidavit that the company did actually buy and scrap them that probably is not going to happen.
BTW, are you a member of N.I.F.E.? If so you probably know Paul Vargyas. Good guy. I bought a 1988 GT from him a year ago and drove it down here to Austin. Not a single problem.
Yes, it was purchased and the title was marked as scrap. It still does not support a "GM Buy-Back program for Fieros back in the '90s".
Do you know what the title processing procedure is for GM? They may automatically list the title as scrap (what a junk yard would do, if they had to transfer a title). GM has no interest in titling any car they purchase back (as part of an investigation, not a "buy back and crush"). The car could be sitting in a warehouse somewhere for all we know. My guess is that it was bought to be reviewed, disassembled, evaluated and then disposed of. There is no evidence of this, but this seems more likely to be the case, as it would fit well into a business model.
I have met Hulki multiple times and I was heavily involved in the Michigan Fiero Club (and I know Paul, from back in the fiero.org days). No one has ever mentioned a Fiero Buy Back program. What you have is an interesting story, but the carfax doesn't state who bought the vehicle. Heck, maybe it was bought by someone and totaled on their first ride out... for all we know. I would assume it was bought by GM, because you said it was and carfax says it was purchased. I can't argue that. I can't support the idea that this was under a "Fiero buy-back program", though.
Call me skeptical, I know. I don't believe the world is flat, as the evidence says otherwise. People will believe what they want, but I believe looking at the evidence and the simplest explanation based on that evidence.
Apparently, for you the glass is always half empty. If a vehicle is purchased by an individual it would have been listed on the carfax. When registered it would have been listed on the carfax. If it was bought by GM, as you said you assumed, ipso-facto it would be GM buy-back 'program'. By your own words, looking at the evidence, a reasonable person would go to the simplest explanation which would be what I have stated from the beginning. If they bought it back for what-ever reason, who really cares, they bought it back. The next thing we know is that the car is marked as salvage. That IS what happens here in Texas when a car if crushed. Also when a car is purchased from a dealer, the dealer handles all the title/registration work. That means a NEW title/registration would have shown up on the carfax. You are simply trying to cast doubt on something you must know is true if you have been dealing with cars for as long as you wish us to think.
Gee,here are the facts 1. In 1989 a Texas Title/registration is issued 2. I go to a Pontiac dealer to get a larger car 3. They give me a corporate number to call 4. I accept a negotiated offer which is better than bluebook or what I could get retail, they say they are going to crush the car 5. A salvage title is issued to this vehicles VIN number according to Texas Law and is reported on carfax. (there is no problem with the mileage, Severe problems reported by DMV "that means that the organization that crushed it reported it being official destroyed)
A reasonable person with critical thinking skills would come to the conclusion that GM bought it and then followed through with crushing it. Now, please prove to "us" that it didn't happen!
...a reasonable person would go to the simplest explanation which would be what I have stated from the beginning.
A reasonable person with critical thinking skills would come to the conclusion that GM bought it and then followed through with crushing it.
No, in the complete absence of any real clues, a reasonable person is going to believe other, more likely simple explanations such as perhaps the car sat on the dealers lot for awhile and was subsequently wrecked while on a test drive some months later and scrapped. Or the car was stolen and wrecked and scrapped. That's at least as likely (and probably much more so) than your theory that it was bought back under a clandestine program to rid the world of Fieros. AND it would fit within the data provided by your Carfax.
Look, the only real evidence in this story was all the paperwork which you threw away more than two decades ago. Until you produce something like that, no one is going to believe you. A Carfax with exactly two data points is not going to do it for anyone except for the one guy who is already believing the story he wants to believe.
Personally, I lost all interest in being helpful in this thread when you made fun of those of us who DO save the paperwork. The irony here is a mile thick. Heck, you didn't even have the VIN anymore.
No, in the complete absence of any real clues, a reasonable person is going to believe other, more likely simple explanations such as perhaps the car sat on the dealers lot for awhile and was subsequently wrecked while on a test drive some months later and scrapped. Or the car was stolen and wrecked and scrapped.
LOL, Why don't you take the 2 stories and go to an attorney and ask him which is more plausible, your wild fabrication, or my truth.
quote
Originally posted by css9450:
Look, the only real evidence in this story was all the paperwork which you threw away more than two decades ago. Until you produce something like that, no one is going to believe you. A Carfax with exactly two data points is not going to do it for anyone except for the one guy who is already believing the story he wants to believe.
Personally, I lost all interest in being helpful in this thread when you made fun of those of us who DO save the paperwork. The irony here is a mile thick. Heck, you didn't even have the VIN anymore.
If you took offence at me saying "Who saves paperwork for that long" and think I was making fun of you by saying that consider this. It was a question, not a statement. Big Difference!!! Reminds me of the line in the movie Cool Hand Luke "What we've got here is failure to communicate."
However, insurance companies keep those kinds of things and DID have it. So why would I need to keep it. I have owned over 20 different sports cars in my life and feel no need to keep records on them after I no longer have them. I enjoy them for the car they are, NOT the pride of ownership. Maybe that is the fundamental difference.
Vince Lombardi told his players to "Act like you've been there before". Well, I have been there. My first sports car was a Lotus Europa, followed by MGB's, MGB GT's, Midgets, Duster, AMX, Javelin, Triumph. I have paperwork on none of them. I guess using your logic, that means I never owned them. Using your logic, if you do not have a record of it, it did not happen.
I have just looked back in all of the post and the only issue out of all the questions raised and thoughts around this is that two people seem to stay focused on basically that this could not have happened because they do not know about it. Again, neither you or Jackispyder bring any proof that it did not happen.
jscott1 also has not heard of a "buyback" program but is willing to say. "First time I've ever heard of it. I know they gave folks with 84s new engines, but never knew they had a buy back program. Although they typically keep that quiet anyway." That and his others replies are answers from what I would call a reasonable person and he is by no means agreeing that it in FACT did happen.
Jackispyder claims to have met Hulki on numerous occasions. Where is the proof? Oh, That was his experience, he should have recorded at least one or two of them. My experience is my experience, his is his.
By all means ask Paul if he as aware of anything. You are just a town away. And when we get to the basic of this isn't that what I was initially asking? "
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My wife was pregnant with our first daughter so the Fiero was not going to work for us anymore. We needed 2 family type cars so we went shopping. When the GM dealer learned we had a 1984 Fiero, we were given a number to call about the Fiero buy-back program. We negotiated a price directly with GM and they offered us a check OR a larger sum if we bought another GM car. When I asked what they were going to do with the Fiero's they bught back, I was told they were going to be crushed.
Is there any information concerning how many Fiero's were bought back and crushed by GM?
The focus therefore should be finding out if there IS any information. NOT that it did not happen. However, if you can bring verifiable proof that it did not happen please by all means post it here.
