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Is this gasket normal? by Dotrenrew
Started on: 05-25-2014 03:04 PM
Replies: 19 (496 views)
Last post by: Dotrenrew on 05-29-2014 09:41 AM
Dotrenrew
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Report this Post05-25-2014 03:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DotrenrewClick Here to visit Dotrenrew's HomePageClick Here to Email DotrenrewSend a Private Message to DotrenrewEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Took my valve cover off to clean and paint. There was a lot of oil gunk on and around the cover. I was wondering if it was because of this gasket.

[This message has been edited by Dotrenrew (edited 05-25-2014).]

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Report this Post05-25-2014 03:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jonathan2014Click Here to Email jonathan2014Send a Private Message to jonathan2014Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No that's not right. And yes that's why your valve cover with leaking. I can't tell in the picture if that court gasket is there. but. way too much silicone.
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Dotrenrew
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Report this Post05-25-2014 06:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DotrenrewClick Here to visit Dotrenrew's HomePageClick Here to Email DotrenrewSend a Private Message to DotrenrewEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There was no cork gasket at all. There was enough silicone on there to turn a **** actress into a **** star.

I now have a new cork gasket on there. It set me back a whole eight bucks.

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Report this Post05-25-2014 08:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Todd, check this thread. I used the one TopNotch suggests and we've had no leaks in over a year on the 88 Duke Club Car.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/133073.html
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Report this Post05-25-2014 10:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero84FreakClick Here to Email Fiero84FreakSend a Private Message to Fiero84FreakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
^^^ As that thread shows above gasket maker or the cork gaskets are not ideal to use. The proper gasket is one made by Fel Pro that has a metal base that is enclosed in a molded rubber silicone compound. It's designed to fit into that beveled flange on the valve cover to seal it properly. This also is the case for the V6.

The reason why cork gaskets exist is that there are some engines in other cars that carry a similarly designed valve cover gasket but they do not have the flange (they're "flat"). Because of this, most all common engine gasket kits or auto parts stores will carry common cork gaskets. You have to explicitly ask for the "Fiero-specific" (molded rubber) ones.

I would suggest you remove that cork gasket. Some individuals run them and can make them work, but the other more expensive kind are much better to use with less headaches.
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Dotrenrew
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Report this Post05-26-2014 01:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DotrenrewClick Here to visit Dotrenrew's HomePageClick Here to Email DotrenrewSend a Private Message to DotrenrewEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero84Freak:

^^^ As that thread shows above gasket maker or the cork gaskets are not ideal to use. The proper gasket is one made by Fel Pro that has a metal base that is enclosed in a molded rubber silicone compound. It's designed to fit into that beveled flange on the valve cover to seal it properly. This also is the case for the V6.

The reason why cork gaskets exist is that there are some engines in other cars that carry a similarly designed valve cover gasket but they do not have the flange (they're "flat"). Because of this, most all common engine gasket kits or auto parts stores will carry common cork gaskets. You have to explicitly ask for the "Fiero-specific" (molded rubber) ones.

I would suggest you remove that cork gasket. Some individuals run them and can make them work, but the other more expensive kind are much better to use with less headaches.


That is good info. I will run the cork one and monitor it. If I see any issues, I'll get the more expensive one.

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fierofool
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Report this Post05-26-2014 07:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I should have made it a little clearer about my post in the other thread. The photo is what I took off the car. I replaced it with the FelPro gasket that TopNotch suggested.

Permatex Gasket Maker is a sealant. Heavy, sticky, deep red, thin-film paste that's used to help hold pre-formed gaskets in place and to help make a seal. If applied to both sides of a cork gasket and the mating surfaces aren't over-tightened, then they can be a very effective seal. Best used on paper gaskets.
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Report this Post05-26-2014 08:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ARKaiserClick Here to Email ARKaiserSend a Private Message to ARKaiserEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One other item to watch besides the gasket is the flange on the cover. What often happens is that as a leak starts the first thing someone dose is tighten the bolts. As they keep tightening them the cover develops a dimple at each bolt. When a new gasket is installed the cover no longer will seal tight all the way around due to these dimples. I have fought leaks for months only to find that I needed to hammer out one of these dimples.
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Report this Post05-26-2014 08:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The ONLY valve cover gasket you want to use on the Duke is Felpro PN FEL-VS50179T. Don't use the cork or cork/rubber ones as they always tend to leak. This rubber/steel gasket has raised edges to seal properly and comes with all the hardware needed for installation.






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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-26-2014).]

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Dotrenrew
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Report this Post05-27-2014 10:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DotrenrewClick Here to visit Dotrenrew's HomePageClick Here to Email DotrenrewSend a Private Message to DotrenrewEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So far, so good. I let the car idle for about 10 minutes and then took it on a little 15 mile run. No leaks so far.

I will continue to monitor it during longer runs.

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Torch-Red87
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Report this Post05-28-2014 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Torch-Red87Click Here to visit Torch-Red87's HomePageClick Here to Email Torch-Red87Send a Private Message to Torch-Red87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fel-Pro fits great and is the best even on the 2.8 covers, cork material is always a pain in the a**
Opel in Europe used it in the 80th and 90th and made every engine a oil field underneath.

I don't if you get Elring sealant in the USA , the stuff is black and its used by Mercedes, BMW and all known OEM.
The stuff is black and seals like nothing else I ever used even with no gasket.

[This message has been edited by Torch-Red87 (edited 05-28-2014).]

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Report this Post05-28-2014 02:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:

I should have made it a little clearer about my post in the other thread. The photo is what I took off the car. I replaced it with the FelPro gasket that TopNotch suggested.

Permatex Gasket Maker is a sealant. Heavy, sticky, deep red, thin-film paste that's used to help hold pre-formed gaskets in place and to help make a seal. If applied to both sides of a cork gasket and the mating surfaces aren't over-tightened, then they can be a very effective seal. Best used on paper gaskets.


This is exactly how I've made the cork gaskets work on my Dukes. I use a very light bead of the red RTV around the OD of the cover. Place the gasket on the cover making sure it is seated exactly in the proper shape of the valve cover. NOT DISTORED. Gradual snug the bolts in staggered pattern starting at the center, about 2 times around. Then step up to torq spec using the same process. Off hand I can't remember the spec. That's how i made them work. But in the end if your not sure the more expensive gaskets may save you some headaches if your not sure.

Edit: Only difference is I don't use the RTV directly on the gasket. Just the OD of the cover and carefully place cover on the head.

[This message has been edited by Jason88Notchie (edited 05-28-2014).]

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Report this Post05-28-2014 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Top post...

Yes is normal to use RTV only. GM did that at factory and make cover for this.
Picture is used too much RTV and any leak likely cause by not clean the metal.
Clean head flange and cover w/ a Rag wet w/ Brake cleaner then let dry.

This type cover was made for RTV only.
Note thick hole and dimples... this is so RTV has correct gap to its job.

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Jason88Notchie
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Report this Post05-28-2014 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Top post...

Yes is normal to use RTV only. GM did that at factory and make cover for this.
Picture is used too much RTV and any leak likely cause by not clean the metal.
Clean head flange and cover w/ a Rag wet w/ Brake cleaner then let dry.

This type cover was made for RTV only.
Note thick hole and dimples... this is so RTV has correct gap to its job.






Didn't know that! Good info. Ogre your knowledge never ceases to amaze me. Thanks for what you do.

[This message has been edited by Jason88Notchie (edited 05-28-2014).]

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2.5
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Report this Post05-28-2014 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Top post...

Yes is normal to use RTV only. GM did that at factory and make cover for this.
Picture is used too much RTV and any leak likely cause by not clean the metal.
Clean head flange and cover w/ a Rag wet w/ Brake cleaner then let dry.

This type cover was made for RTV only.
Note thick hole and dimples... this is so RTV has correct gap to its job.



Recommendation on install when using RTV? Such as I have heard tighten slightly and torque 24 hours after cure?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-28-2014).]

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Jason88Notchie
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Report this Post05-28-2014 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Recommendation on install when using RTV? Such as I have heard tighten slightly and torque 24 hours after cure?



That does make some sense. But as Ogre alluded to. MUST BE CLEAN! I can see straight RTV working. My process kind of involves both. But I never did have any success with just a cork gasket, bottom line.

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Report this Post05-28-2014 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Recommendation on install when using RTV? Such as I have heard tighten slightly and torque 24 hours after cure?

Any High Temp type should be ok.
GM torque to whatever and done.

I use stamp rubber type w/ above cover. I use High Tack spay as sealant and to keep it in place while working. They last years w/o problems. PO replace w casket and moron warp the cover.

I have no luck using Cork on valve casket. Exhaust side leaks from cooking.
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Report this Post05-28-2014 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jason88NotchieClick Here to Email Jason88NotchieSend a Private Message to Jason88NotchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Any High Temp type should be ok.
GM torque to whatever and done.

I use stamp rubber type w/ above cover. I use High Tack spay as sealant and to keep it in place while working. They last years w/o problems. PO replace w casket and moron warp the cover.

I have no luck using Cork on valve casket. Exhaust side leaks from cooking.



Perhaps the RTV on the OD protects from that Ogre?
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Report this Post05-28-2014 11:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jason88Notchie:
Perhaps the RTV on the OD protects from that Ogre?

Cork?
Not likely. Is how Cork formulas are made.
Cork will cook over time regardless. It's higher temp on exhaust side of head does that. Not just Fiero L4... Many cross flow heads can have same issue.

I use cork type on other things w/o problem.
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Dotrenrew
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Report this Post05-29-2014 09:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DotrenrewClick Here to visit Dotrenrew's HomePageClick Here to Email DotrenrewSend a Private Message to DotrenrewEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Cork will cook over time regardless. It's higher temp on exhaust side of head does.


This probably explains why my brand new cork gasket hasn't begun to leak yet. It's just too new and hasn't had time to "cook". I will continue to monitor it.

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