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Well my fiero is totaled...Time to rebuild another! by mattman134
Started on: 11-09-2013 09:58 AM
Replies: 46 (1768 views)
Last post by: olejoedad on 11-19-2013 07:57 AM
mattman134
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Report this Post11-09-2013 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattman134Click Here to Email mattman134Send a Private Message to mattman134Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Totaled my 3800SC GT the other day on a backroad out here in Brown county, Ohio. Caused by lower ball joint failure after going over a hill and going airborne. CHECK your lower ball joints or this could happen to you!

Carnage pics:





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1984whitesc
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Report this Post11-09-2013 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1984whitescClick Here to visit 1984whitesc's HomePageClick Here to Email 1984whitescSend a Private Message to 1984whitescEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is the frame OK? It looks to me just cosmetic.

------------------

1984 White Fiero Sport Coupe (Juliet) in restoration
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089093.html
1988 Red Fiero Standard Coupe (Bella) in restoration
1990 Black Buick Reatta (Noir)
2002 White Chevy Impala base(Haylie)

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Report this Post11-09-2013 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That will buff right out. Seriously glad your ok, and i would see if its just cosmetic or repairable damage before writing it off, but I'm only looking at pictures and cant see the finer details.
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doublec4
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Report this Post11-09-2013 10:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the ball joint failure club

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OHNIKO
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Report this Post11-09-2013 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OHNIKOClick Here to Email OHNIKOSend a Private Message to OHNIKOEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
geez...any trend here on the ball joints? source, age, type, origin material etc...
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FieroMaster88
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Report this Post11-09-2013 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMaster88Click Here to Email FieroMaster88Send a Private Message to FieroMaster88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That sucks. I replaced my ball joints earlier this year with some ac delco joints.
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Report this Post11-09-2013 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattman134:

Totaled my 3800SC GT the other day on a backroad out here in Brown county, Ohio.



Unless a car burns to the ground and turns to dust it can be rebuilt. "Totaled" is just a word that insurance companies use that means the repair costs exceed the actual cash value as determined by some stupid book. They don't consider all the custom work that has been performed, nor do they consider sentimental value. That car can be repaired. It's just a question of whether or not you think it's easier to build a new one from scratch. If you have a 3800 SC I would guess it's easier to repair that one then to start over.
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1MohrFiero
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Report this Post11-09-2013 03:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1MohrFieroSend a Private Message to 1MohrFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You guys have scared me into making up my mind. I have thinking about changing my front lower ball joints for a while. Time to take care of it.

I'm glad your okay and sorry to the damage it caused. How bad is the underneath damage?

------------------

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dratts
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Report this Post11-09-2013 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I snapped both the left and right ball joints on my Held slalom front end. Both times at low speed in a parking lot. The left one while backing up and the right one while going forward. I still don't know what caused it. Both times it was at full turn, but I don't see any interference with parts. No damage caused except for replacing the ball joints.
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AL87
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Report this Post11-09-2013 06:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
it wasnt the front lower ball joint on mine, but I think I can qualify for that club you are talking about

(free bump)

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AL87
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Report this Post11-09-2013 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

AL87

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ALSO, serious question: How are they failing? pictures?

I have a fear that somehow the way these ball joints are installed, if the snap ring fails or is on incorrectly installed, that the whole joint will drop right out of the control arm somehow... I've never liked the way they designed the front end lower ball joint setup.
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Report this Post11-09-2013 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhirewireClick Here to Email PhirewireSend a Private Message to PhirewireEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm curious if they were replaced and the replacements were welded in correctly like recommended.
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Report this Post11-09-2013 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KhwClick Here to Email KhwSend a Private Message to KhwEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
"Caused by lower ball joint failure after going over a hill and going airborne."

Ahhh, the joys of going much to fast.

Hopefully the damage isn't beyond repair. I'm lucky something like that didn't happen to me back when I was 18 and got airborne with my lowered mini-truck. The shower of sparks that came out and the loud slam intot he asphalt scared the ever livin crap out of me.
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Yarmouth Fiero
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Report this Post11-10-2013 09:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Yarmouth FieroClick Here to Email Yarmouth FieroSend a Private Message to Yarmouth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Typical...... the bull is checking out the action and the cows keep on grazing......

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Report this Post11-10-2013 09:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Fformula88Send a Private Message to Fformula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad your ok! Could have been real nasty had it flipped over!

I agree, that looks rebuild able. If not, at least swap that 3800 into another chassis!
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84fiero123
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Report this Post11-10-2013 09:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I often wonder why some states still don't have mandatory safety inspection. it really isn't all that bad for the most part and could save you from having that accident. most people haven't got a clue about vehicle safety, hell most people haven't got a clue how to drive and states expect them to know when there is something catastrophic is about to happen to their cars. you were lucky, think about if that had happened on the highway, in heavy traffic or any other number of situations.

sorry just think that we should have them everywhere. most people I know haven't got a clue about their own cars, even some on here who you would think know how to check things like ball joints, tie rod ends, that's fine but if you don't know how to check these things you can cause yourself and sometimes others some serious injuries.

our cars are over 25 years old, sh!t happens in 25 years of driving, especially in the snow belt where they use huge amounts of road salts. sorry just a pet peeve of mine about the majority of people who drive cars that don't properly maintain them safety wise anyway.

glad you are OK and didn't hurt yourself or anyone else.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post11-10-2013 09:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad you are okay Matt. I have an 88 chassis in the garage...

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread
Modified stock air canister and base to 3.5 inch for 3800na

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

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mattman134
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Report this Post11-10-2013 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattman134Click Here to Email mattman134Send a Private Message to mattman134Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MulletproofMonk:

Glad you are okay Matt. I have an 88 chassis in the garage...



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mattman134
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Report this Post11-10-2013 11:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattman134Click Here to Email mattman134Send a Private Message to mattman134Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

mattman134

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quote
Originally posted by MulletproofMonk:

Glad you are okay Matt. I have an 88 chassis in the garage...



Really? Does it come with the suspension (front and Rear?) If so I am interested.
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MulletproofMonk
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Report this Post11-10-2013 05:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MulletproofMonkClick Here to visit MulletproofMonk's HomePageSend a Private Message to MulletproofMonkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Matt... Car is a roller with both cradles. Sent you a PM with some pictures.

 
quote
Originally posted by Yarmouth Fiero:

Typical...... the bull is checking out the action and the cows keep on grazing......



I think you got it wrong Yarmouth Fiero... He is a typical guy looking at a car... Probably more like this...

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mattman134
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Report this Post11-10-2013 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattman134Click Here to Email mattman134Send a Private Message to mattman134Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MulletproofMonk:

Matt... Car is a roller with both cradles. Sent you a PM with some pictures.


I think you got it wrong Yarmouth Fiero... He is a typical guy looking at a car... Probably more like this...


Yes!!!! Ahah
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Report this Post11-10-2013 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This happened to a guy in his 87 GT at our Westfest in Monterey several years back. His lower ball joint shaft appeared to simply shear off at the base. Extreme lower area of the ball joint was still there. Car had to he flat/bedded with some carefully placed 2X8's and dragged onto to the bed area. . My guess is most of these failures you are seeing in this thread are the original factory ball joints. And this is yet another reason to replace Fiero suspension components if the car has over 90K.
Kit
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Report this Post11-10-2013 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Cruise from Minneapolis to Frazee in 2010 for the 1st Annual Tyler Shipman Memorial Car Show. It certainly brought the cruise to a stop! It was AMAZING as there was a part store at the next exit, just 2 miles away, and had the ball joint IN STOCK!






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Report this Post11-10-2013 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MeadmakerDaveClick Here to Email MeadmakerDaveSend a Private Message to MeadmakerDaveEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK, that settles it for me. I was replacing the rear ball joints anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and replace the fronts while I've got the car up on jack stands.
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Report this Post11-11-2013 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jscott1Send a Private Message to jscott1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:

. My guess is most of these failures you are seeing in this thread are the original factory ball joints. And this is yet another reason to replace Fiero suspension components if the car has over 90K.
Kit


I man now I want to replace all the suspension parts on all my cars... I've already had my steering rack fail...luckily I was in the driveway when that happened or that would have ended badly.
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Report this Post11-11-2013 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A guy in our club had that happen to him a few years ago! Ouch... I saw your picture on instagram.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-1-086673.html

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1984whitesc
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Report this Post11-11-2013 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1984whitescClick Here to visit 1984whitesc's HomePageClick Here to Email 1984whitescSend a Private Message to 1984whitescEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a 93 Grand Prix LE where the ball joint on the passenger side had separated while doing 55 mph. I heard a loud pop, clunk, and a pop again, because the ball joint fell back into the socket. The whole front of the car shifted violently. It was the scariest thing to have happen, because if the front passenger wheel would have shifted to the right instead of shifting to the left the car would have gone in the ditch and would have flipped for sure. That's why I didn't take any chances and replaced the 30 year old ball joints in my 84. The 88 is next.
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jon m
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Report this Post11-12-2013 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jon mSend a Private Message to jon mEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
just a quick question

did the lower ball joint come through the a arm or did the ball joint basically fall apart ?

if it came through the a arm was it tack welded in or just pressed in

if it just came apart was it an oem or a replacement?

hope you get it back on the road soon

jon
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mattman134
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Report this Post11-12-2013 12:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattman134Click Here to Email mattman134Send a Private Message to mattman134Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jon m:

just a quick question

did the lower ball joint come through the a arm or did the ball joint basically fall apart ?

if it came through the a arm was it tack welded in or just pressed in

if it just came apart was it an oem or a replacement?

hope you get it back on the road soon

jon


The ball stud sheared off. It was a dura last autozone replacement. I will never buy cheap suspension parts again.

[This message has been edited by mattman134 (edited 11-12-2013).]

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Grantman
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Report this Post11-12-2013 01:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GrantmanClick Here to Email GrantmanSend a Private Message to GrantmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After seeing the pictures liking my decision to go ahead and replace front and back ball joints and tie rods (although trying to figure out how to replace the drivers side rear inner tie rod without partially disconnecting the springs holding the muffler). I don't have one but thinking a small 3/8, 90 degree air wrench can just get in there past the springs. sure regretting the decision not to replace inner tie rods when the cradle was out.

------------------
1986 Fiero GT Fastback 3.4Lpr with 4T60
1979 Naked Honda Goldwing - sold
1983 Honda Goldwing 1100 Interstate

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Report this Post11-13-2013 05:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sco77Click Here to Email sco77Send a Private Message to sco77Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The design of the rear balljoints kind of scare me how it's just held on by a pinch bolt. I never even thought about the front being just as dangerous of a design. Looks like I will be getting new frontend components over the winter.

------------------
86 Fiero GT 4spd - L67 swap: VS cam, GenV
98 GTP - Some mods

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Report this Post11-13-2013 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:

This happened to a guy in his 87 GT at our Westfest in Monterey several years back. His lower ball joint shaft appeared to simply shear off at the base. Extreme lower area of the ball joint was still there. Car had to he flat/bedded with some carefully placed 2X8's and dragged onto to the bed area. . My guess is most of these failures you are seeing in this thread are the original factory ball joints. And this is yet another reason to replace Fiero suspension components if the car has over 90K.
Kit


In a situation like that I would have thought it was a chinese replacement.
Most times the stock stuff is good stuff.

I was about to say.. if the ball joint isnt loose it is good right?
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Report this Post11-13-2013 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

2.5

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Any sources for quality parts?
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Phirewire
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Report this Post11-13-2013 12:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PhirewireClick Here to Email PhirewireSend a Private Message to PhirewireEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I like to believe moog parts are of higher quality or of higher cost for no reason. but I haven't had any bad luck thus far.

http://www.summitracing.com...Ke4roCFVRk7AodtR0AoA
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s550w
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Report this Post11-13-2013 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for s550wSend a Private Message to s550wEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rodney Dickman has an excellent reputation for high quality partds. I remember seeing regular replacements along with his lowering ones when I looked awhile back.
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-13-2013 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Time to stop blaming China as most of the parts are from there now and most are as good as anything made here.

The real issue here in play several things. High Mileage, Bigger and more Powerful Engines, Bigger Brakes, Bigger Tires and Wheels, Lack of Maintenance, ETC.

The thing is the Fiero Ball Joints stock are not all the big or strong as they were made for much less power, smaller brakes and smaller wheels.

I have seen the same thing on some trucks where they put the crazy large tires on and bigger brakes but use the smaller ball joints. Too often they fail as they are stressed far beyond what was intended in the 80's.

This is why many of the kits that adapted Corvette Brakes to a Fiero had control arms included as they would bust or rip the ball joints in half or out of the arm.

Big Wheels and Brakes are cool but you have to make sure the rest of the car is up to them.
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Report this Post11-14-2013 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:

Time to stop blaming China as most of the parts are from there now and most are as good as anything made here.
.


Thats a very bold statement, is there evidence of this?

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jaskispyder
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Report this Post11-14-2013 10:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Thats a very bold statement, is there evidence of this?


I think to compare parts, we need to look at the history of said parts, installed on a stock Fiero (stock wheels, etc).
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hyperv6
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Report this Post11-14-2013 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Thats a very bold statement, is there evidence of this?


I can not release the data but I work in the performance aftermarket and deal with quality and warranty issues. We focus on high return rates for parts stock and performance. The first thing you learn where it is made is no longer as much a factor as it once was.

I deal with many of the large MFG and see and hear what is going on.

Too many people think that many of the Chinese plants are slave labor shops in huts when the truth is often they are highly rated quality plants that are more modern than many we have here. Now that is not to day there are not some companies doing cheap knock off parts but most with a major well known name have parts up to the spec they were drawn at.

The real difference often is some small no name brands will deal with who ever is cheapest and just get what ever is sent to them. In our case we have a MFG that make distributors for us that also makes them for Honda. They hold the highest rating you can get in the auto industry and we have people on the ground there that oversee the quality and specifications of all the models we get.

I wish it were true that China was doing nothing but crap but the truth is they have caught up and make as much good and bad as we do right here at home. Their greatest issues are with cheap no name knock off copies of things that can vary in quality.

In the past we had a excuse to buy American and that was better quality but that excuse is no longer an advantage. Some parts anymore you can not even get here anymore unless they are special made. Most lifters for example are from Chile. Most engine mounts are from India etc.

The sad part is we could make all these parts here if we wanted too but the fact is no one would buy them because they would cost too much. I had one brake MFG who had to get his rotors overseas because he had to raise the price of his kits and sales dropped. He still makes everything else here but the rotors are not one he can get a deal on anymore.

The sad fact is everyone wants to be a millionaire here in the states but they all still want to shop at Walmart. Sorry it just does not work that way. For our economy to work it has to have people in all classes from the top to the bottom. Most often with a lot of work and a little luck you can move up. But the one level income system has failed everywhere it has been in place. Those in office here today are doing all they can for income redistribution and we will pay the price for it.

I always liked the saying. I believe in good luck I work hard to get good luck.

Sorry I can not share the numbers of what I see but it is what it is. I make a living at this and it scares me to see where this is all going. The Chinese are great at copying anything but they have difficulty developing things new. This too will soon change as they are educating their young people here and else where to bring it home to China.

Also note that all the companies that make things in China like Automakers, tire companies etc. All have to be in partnership with a Chinese MFG. Most are 51-49 deals in the Chinese favor. They not only share in the income but also demand anything sold in China has to have the intellectual properties shared with the government. This is why Chevy will sell a Cruze in China but not a Volt. Chevy would love to sell the Volt there but they will not give up her secrets.

The fact is people in this country really need to learn the truth on what really is going on in China and how business is done. It is eye opening.

Also we have to understand with their growing markets many of our companies have to do business there or they will be left behind. All the automakers have to be there or they run the risk of fading away. With the largest auto market in the world there now to make the income needed for development China is a must. If it were not for China GM would have still been a struggle after the bail out.

So while there may be some cheap generic ball joints out there do think that a name like Moog that may have a part there is inferior just because it was made in China. With China it is time to stop underestimating them. If not we are doomed, but then again we just already may be. We are on the same path as Great Brittan was on.

Sorry but this is something that I do know a little about and really hope and pray others will take notice and help change things here.

By the way look at all the photos and you will note all had large and heavier wheel and tire combo's. Might be a pattern to the problem.

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Chris Hodson
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Report this Post11-16-2013 02:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Chris HodsonSend a Private Message to Chris HodsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
PArts Car! Glad your ok.
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