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Idea for making the 84-86 headlight system work better by Rodney
Started on: 11-08-2013 11:34 AM
Replies: 11 (681 views)
Last post by: Danyel on 11-12-2013 12:24 AM
Rodney
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Report this Post11-08-2013 11:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For many years I have been looking at the 84-86 headlight motor electrical system and wondered how can this be improved. Single biggest problem is degraded grounds (everywhere) and degraded connections thru out the headlight wiring system. Today I had an idea. Might work. It will take some time to develop it. This might work.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
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7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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2.5
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Report this Post11-08-2013 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Look out hes got an idea...

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-08-2013).]

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onesexyfiero
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Report this Post11-08-2013 12:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for onesexyfieroClick Here to Email onesexyfieroSend a Private Message to onesexyfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One of my pipe dreams has always been to convert to the 90 prototype style setup (all attached to the hood) or connect the painted body panels to the moving assembly, more like a trans am or vette. Those poor motors have to work so hard to move those heavy springs.
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tesmith66
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Report this Post11-08-2013 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree. Getting rid of the springs and mechanically attaching the headlights to the doors would solve 2 issues: the load on the units and the doors flying up at high speeds or when you meet a truck on a 2 lane highway.
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uhlanstan
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Report this Post11-09-2013 10:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for uhlanstanClick Here to Email uhlanstanSend a Private Message to uhlanstanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the 84 to 86 headlamp actuating mechanism need a new system relay,, this is the biggest problem.
a reliable relay at a affordable price ,but probably double the price that the old one was..
the sales potential is 500 to 1000 units at least in 1 to 2 years
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n7vrz
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Report this Post11-10-2013 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for n7vrzClick Here to Email n7vrzSend a Private Message to n7vrzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

Today I had an idea.



[This message has been edited by n7vrz (edited 11-10-2013).]

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RWDPLZ
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Report this Post11-10-2013 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The circuit design and theory of operation are just analog circuits designed to a low budget. The biggest problems are

1) The gears stripping and bumpers disintegrating (which Rodney's kits solve)

2) The system just wasn't designed to last 30+ years

3) The limit switch in the motor assembly





The system trips off when the limit switch is pressed by the fingers on the shaft. There are a number of problems with this design, mostly that it depends upon physical loads to stop the headlights and keep them stopped. If there isn't enough retention force, the switch may trigger again and again and again (the ticking we sometimes see on these motors, which isn't only caused by putting a seal in backwards).

How the switch works (different design but same theory):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...e_snap-action_switch

The Gen 2 is a significantly better design, since it addresses these issues and is digitally controlled.



The biggest problem here is, transistors without heat sinks, and cheap materials



The best way to fix the gen 1 motors would be

-Replace the gear and bumpers with Rodney's

-Redo the power and grounds

-Replace the headlight switch

-Redesign the limit switch assembly

I hope that's what Rodney is working on?

[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 11-10-2013).]

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Danyel
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Report this Post11-10-2013 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DanyelClick Here to visit Danyel's HomePageSend a Private Message to DanyelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My brother inlaw and I have been working on a 2013 version of this Gen II module .... so far we have upgraded the electronics and relay ..... the only forseen issue is the prong connectors and housing for this new GEN III unit... will need cores to be able to make these affordable and small so it can be tucked inside the front compartement therefore no more removing the fender to service it..... pics to follow



------------------

My Build Thread
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[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 11-12-2013).]

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Kitskaboodle
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Report this Post11-10-2013 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KitskaboodleClick Here to Email KitskaboodleSend a Private Message to KitskaboodleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Unless the fix/upgrade is cheap, it's probably better to go back to plan B which is simply upgrading to the Gen2 system which is proven to be a simple & effective junkyard plug & play swap.
Kit

[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 11-10-2013).]

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theogre
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Report this Post11-11-2013 03:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Originally posted by Rodney:

For many years I have been looking at the 84-86 headlight motor electrical system and wondered how can this be improved.
Why? If you fix all electric problems, You still have to deal w/ strip gears, bumpers, etc. Gen1 will be slower and noisier then Gen2. Motor's Gearing makes sure.

Single biggest problem is degraded grounds (everywhere) and degraded connections thru out the headlight wiring system.
Gen1 and Gen2 systems uses G101 and G102. Gen2 has 4 connections vs Gen1 3 relays and sockets, 4 for motors.
All owners need to clean G101 and G102 because they are used by Rad fan, All bulbs (except light on when hood is up.), and HL motors.
See my Cave, Wire Service

 
quote
Originally posted by tesmith66 and others:
Getting rid of the springs

Door spring don't load the buckets/motors as many think.
Two plastic parts on bottom of doors are bearings.
They make contact w/ the buckets only on 2 point.
Buckets will roll-up and wedge open the doors. Allot of door load is on the bucket's hardware.
(The trim that covers the bulb and bucket is only decoration value.)

People who "redesign" the buckets for using small bulbs can, often will, wreck the doors and buckets because they simple trow out half of door opening bearings.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

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theogre
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Report this Post11-11-2013 03:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

theogre

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Member since Mar 99
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:
The Gen 2 is a significantly better design, since it addresses these issues and is digitally controlled.
....
The biggest problem here is, transistors without heat sinks, and cheap materials


Nope... Does have a copper heatsink...

Heatsink design isn't easy and normal "Duty Cycle" is 1-2 seconds max on time and minutes to hours to cool.
That mosfet handles 20+A, the motor draws maybe 3A. (Relay contacts 5A 30Vdc) Means the fet doesn't need a big heatsink.

See also
www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives...130314-2-112597.html

Lacking a "real" heatsink is not the problem...
above and ref thread shows blown F2 fuse and your blaming the mosfet? Fixing that way is like penny in a fuse box.
Whatever is blowing F2 is the problem. F1 and F2 are fuses on Drain/output pin of mosfet. Dieing/dead relay, shorted wire to motor or motor is itself can blow the module fuse.

Cliff had dead Mosfet but also has water damage. (See Green corrosion on 5 pin connector...)
A dead mosfet is a symptom in that case because Most anything on that board or iffy motor can kill mosfet w/o blowing a fuse.
Later in that thread After fixing... He fried the relay, burnt other mosfet and board, but F1 didn't blow and only heat damage (turned blue/black)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 11-11-2013).]

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Danyel
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Report this Post11-12-2013 12:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DanyelClick Here to visit Danyel's HomePageSend a Private Message to DanyelEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Developing a Gen III module is coming along pretty good .... we are still deciding whether to stay OEM or shrinking so it will not be needed to tuck it back behind the fender .... well more to come soon ......
Danyel

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My Build Thread
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