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Billet Alm. Center console skeleton by evowake
Started on: 07-29-2013 01:28 PM
Replies: 54 (2458 views)
Last post by: Monkeyman on 05-15-2015 07:03 PM
evowake
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Report this Post07-29-2013 01:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, like most of you have found at one point or another, I was replacing my select and shift cables and found that my center console skeleton is literally disintegrating. Rather than putting a band-aid on a big wound and using epoxy, I decided to strip it completely out of my car, design and manufacture an aluminum replacement that can be assembled / disassembled in sections, making access to things like the shifter much easier.

Just thought I'd start a thread to document the process, so get out the popcorn...
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Report this Post07-29-2013 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IFLYR22Click Here to Email IFLYR22Send a Private Message to IFLYR22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice!

I had collected a couple more of them in great shape, but they are limited and few are available any more.
Watching!!!

-Dave
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Report this Post07-29-2013 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DL10Click Here to visit DL10's HomePageClick Here to Email DL10Send a Private Message to DL10Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There's always room for more vendors, but are there enough customers to make it worth your time. Another member is working on replacement skeletons.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/092166.html
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Report this Post07-29-2013 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtlt1Click Here to Email fierogtlt1Send a Private Message to fierogtlt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by evowake:

Well, like most of you have found at one point or another, I was replacing my select and shift cables and found that my center console skeleton is literally disintegrating. Rather than putting a band-aid on a big wound and using epoxy, I decided to strip it completely out of my car, design and manufacture an aluminum replacement that can be assembled / disassembled in sections, making access to things like the shifter much easier.

Just thought I'd start a thread to document the process, so get out the popcorn...


That sounds familiar...WOW....Seperate pieces that is such a awesome idea.How did you come up with that?

[This message has been edited by fierogtlt1 (edited 07-29-2013).]

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Report this Post07-29-2013 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtlt1Click Here to Email fierogtlt1Send a Private Message to fierogtlt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

fierogtlt1

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quote
Originally posted by DL10:

There's always room for more vendors, but are there enough customers to make it worth your time. Another member is working on replacement skeletons.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/092166.html


Any pics of the aluminum one...?

[This message has been edited by fierogtlt1 (edited 07-29-2013).]

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Report this Post07-29-2013 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jb1Click Here to Email jb1Send a Private Message to jb1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



87 GT
series 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft)
(series II swap in progress)
85GT Northstar
86GT 3800 n/a

[This message has been edited by jb1 (edited 08-01-2013).]

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Report this Post07-29-2013 04:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtlt1Click Here to Email fierogtlt1Send a Private Message to fierogtlt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Prices?......and are the side being made by aluminum too?

[This message has been edited by fierogtlt1 (edited 07-29-2013).]

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Report this Post07-29-2013 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jb1Click Here to Email jb1Send a Private Message to jb1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
..........

------------------


87 GT
series 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft)
(series II swap in progress)
85GT Northstar
86GT 3800 n/a

[This message has been edited by jb1 (edited 08-01-2013).]

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Report this Post07-29-2013 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtlt1Click Here to Email fierogtlt1Send a Private Message to fierogtlt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jb1:

well that is part of posting it on public forum. .. I be watchin both


Waiting to see the mock-up...

[This message has been edited by fierogtlt1 (edited 07-29-2013).]

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Synthesis
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Report this Post07-29-2013 04:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SynthesisSend a Private Message to SynthesisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogtlt1:

I just took my pics down from my thread so no more idea stealing
will be done.


There are only so many ways to build a center console skeleton that allows stock mounting locations for stock center console pieces, whether it be billet aluminum or plastic with threaded inserts.
Functionally they are going to end up nearly identical no matter what you do.
It isn't "idea stealing"... It is competition. You have to prove that your product is lighter/stronger/better than the competition's product.
Posting a photo of your progress isn't going to help someone else copy what you have done. They still need to get the dimensions, mounting points, etc.

Your design has promise, but it also has no vertical rigidity built into the main center structure. You need some dimensional depth to it in order to strengthen it. I've been watching your progress here and on Facebook and I am excited to see the outcome.

[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 07-29-2013).]

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Report this Post07-29-2013 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jb1Click Here to Email jb1Send a Private Message to jb1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
, building a replacemet has been brought up many times before. .. glad to see someone trying something

------------------


87 GT
series 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft)
(series II swap in progress)
85GT Northstar
86GT 3800 n/a

[This message has been edited by jb1 (edited 08-01-2013).]

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Report this Post07-29-2013 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtlt1Click Here to Email fierogtlt1Send a Private Message to fierogtlt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Definately watching this one...subscribed..

[This message has been edited by fierogtlt1 (edited 07-29-2013).]

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Report this Post07-29-2013 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
holy cow... calm down.. i never even said i'd be selling this.. i'm making myself one... yeesh... and how did i come up with the idea of separate pieces?

well lets see... like every other fiero enthusiast who's been ticked off about the skeleton while trying to get at the shifter. I didn't even know about your thread until the person up there ^^^ linked me to it.

Calm it down, i'm not trying to steal anyones business. just sharing my project with the fiero community, soo chilllll...


Anyway.. first progress pic... started on the CAD model today - more to come.

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Report this Post07-29-2013 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtlt1Click Here to Email fierogtlt1Send a Private Message to fierogtlt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by evowake:

holy cow... calm down.. i never even said i'd be selling this.. i'm making myself one... yeesh... and how did i come up with the idea of separate pieces?

well lets see... like every other fiero enthusiast who's been ticked off about the skeleton while trying to get at the shifter. I didn't even know about your thread until the person up there ^^^ linked me to it.

Calm it down, i'm not trying to steal anyones business. just sharing my project with the fiero community, soo chilllll...


Anyway.. first progress pic... started on the CAD model today - more to come.


Sorry for freaking out over nothing........It just sounded a lot like my skeleton templates I made in seperate pieces for easier installation.
I am making them made to order.Even with a Double DIN stereo option.Good luck with your build process.
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Report this Post07-29-2013 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rcp buildersSend a Private Message to rcp buildersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogtlt1:

Sorry for freaking out over nothing........It just sounded a lot like my skeleton templates I made in seperate pieces for easier installation.
I am making them made to order.Even with a Double DIN stereo option.Good luck with your build process.


Are you drunk????
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fierogtlt1
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Report this Post07-29-2013 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtlt1Click Here to Email fierogtlt1Send a Private Message to fierogtlt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes......I'm drunk on Chemo medicine and Cymbalta..
Do you want to try some.?
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Report this Post07-29-2013 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogtlt1:

Yes......I'm drunk on Chemo medicine and Cymbalta..
Do you want to try some.?


Nope, and you're making an ass of yourself. Good luck with your super secret product development...
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Report this Post07-29-2013 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogtlt1:

Sorry for freaking out over nothing........It just sounded a lot like my skeleton templates I made in seperate pieces for easier installation.
I am making them made to order.Even with a Double DIN stereo option.Good luck with your build process.


no problem man, good luck with yours as well!
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Report this Post07-29-2013 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtlt1Click Here to Email fierogtlt1Send a Private Message to fierogtlt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's looking good.

[This message has been edited by fierogtlt1 (edited 08-03-2013).]

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Report this Post07-29-2013 10:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SynthesisSend a Private Message to SynthesisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogtlt1:

"Carbon" is taking over all the design and manufacturing of that item
I sent everybody his way...He is the number 1 designer on here.


You really are making an ass of yourself man... Chill.
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Report this Post07-29-2013 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NoMoreRicersClick Here to Email NoMoreRicersSend a Private Message to NoMoreRicersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post07-30-2013 01:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


LOL at the post below.

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 07-30-2013).]

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Report this Post07-30-2013 03:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jb1Click Here to Email jb1Send a Private Message to jb1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
alright wasn't going to let cat out of bag just yet , but with the drama I got to tell.... I was inspired to build a multi-piece hi-grade plastic console skeleton... and all my parts arrived today... Here is just a teaser pic for now...



------------------


87 GT
series 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft)
(series II swap in progress)
85GT Northstar
86GT 3800 n/a

[This message has been edited by jb1 (edited 08-01-2013).]

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Report this Post07-30-2013 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


I knew that was coming. Too bad I can't get my hands on an old GM production drawing for this thing - it would sure make life easier.

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Report this Post07-30-2013 09:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Pete MatosSend a Private Message to Pete MatosEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
WOW..........that is all.

Pete

------------------
"May the grins begin when you turn the key and hear the engine roar over your shoulder" ......Gall57 (slightly modified LOL)

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Report this Post07-30-2013 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TXGOODClick Here to visit TXGOOD's HomePageSend a Private Message to TXGOODEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I guess the only material left to use is wood. Hmmmm.....
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Report this Post07-30-2013 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroseblackClick Here to Email fieroseblackSend a Private Message to fieroseblackEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am following both of these. We have had attempts of fiberglass, plastic, aluminum, etc. Yet here we sit as a forum of Fiero owners who still do not have a decent replacement / upgrade to that POS from GM. I was concerned about the HAV control arm move as well. There is nothing wrong with questioning a concept and/or design. We are all after the same end result.

It would really be sad if we had more than one option for replacement, I say no. TXGOOD wood is as good as any other thing than the cheep GM plastic, so go for it.

Mike Parker
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Report this Post07-31-2013 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Been quite busy the last couple of days here - but have managed to get quite a few dimensions recorded. I have a bit more to do before I start modeling out the new frame, and need to take a look at which features of the skeleton, other than the tapped holes & their locations are important for proper function, so that I can minimize the new piece as much as possible. Won't make sense to cut an exact replica of the skeleton from aluminum, since it was designed for the mechanical properties of.... whats that material they used.... glass filled garbage plastic?

Currently as I look at the skeleton I envision it coming apart into four main components - radio housing, shifter skeleton, power accessory panel, and armrest, though depending on how this works out, I may combine the last two.

I am anxious to get this done, because frankly... I want to take my car to fierorama, and right now, it's in pieces!
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Report this Post07-31-2013 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Picture of the donor and the initial cad skeleton... of the skeleton..


5

[This message has been edited by evowake (edited 07-31-2013).]

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Report this Post07-31-2013 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by evowake:

Picture of the donor and the initial cad skeleton... of the skeleton...



of the skeleton...

To mill a shape like that out of a solid block, there would be quite a bit of waste right? I don't know much about the process, it just looks expensive for the billet aluminum stock. I suppose the modularity of your design would help with that too though...

[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 07-31-2013).]

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Report this Post07-31-2013 12:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SynthesisSend a Private Message to SynthesisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With laser cutting and CNC bending machines, you could actually manufacture the majority of the skeleton out of bent sheet aluminum with press fitted brass threaded inserts.

Less waste and easier/cheaper in the long run.

The thicker and more intricate parts may need to be machined out of billet.

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Report this Post07-31-2013 12:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It will definitely not be produced from a solid hunk of aluminum. That'd be one pricey part, both in material cost and machine time. I'm building a cad skeleton of the positionally relevant items (holes, fastener locations, etc etc,) to model the components that will make up the final product around - which will help me ensure I have a precise part in the end.

It will initally begin as a handful of parts which will be assembled into 3 or 4 more permanent sub-assemblies that are readily disassembled for access to important areas.

While I do agree that a stamped part with post machining operations to locate holes would the the ideal method for a production part... the dies and equipment necessary to work out that process would be cost prohibitive... since we're all in a niche market here, my best option is to model it up and build what I can on the machines I have access to. If I produce something in time for fierorama that I'm happy with, I may produce an extra to be raffled off.

I do have a feeling that the cost of this will be relatively high said and done, not to mention the time I'll be putting in to lay it all out and make it a reality, but like i said... I need a stupid skeleton! lol

Frankly the BEST method would be to make it with an additive manufacturing process... (3d printer) But again... limited by what equipment is available.

[This message has been edited by evowake (edited 07-31-2013).]

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Report this Post07-31-2013 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ChookoClick Here to Email ChookoSend a Private Message to ChookoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, the million dollar question....will you be making more of these? You know, for the rest of us knuckleheads to purchase from you? Not to bring up a sore subject, but the guy that was trying to make them out of plastic had quite a list of interested potential buyers going, and it seems that he has given up now...but judging by the response he was getting, I'd say there is a market here on the forum for a replacement whatever the material. I would have stuck with him since I had already committed to buying his product, but he is out of the market, and I still want a replacement. So how about it? Are you planning to sell these?
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Report this Post07-31-2013 01:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Chooko:

So, the million dollar question....will you be making more of these? You know, for the rest of us knuckleheads to purchase from you? Not to bring up a sore subject, but the guy that was trying to make them out of plastic had quite a list of interested potential buyers going, and it seems that he has given up now...but judging by the response he was getting, I'd say there is a market here on the forum for a replacement whatever the material. I would have stuck with him since I had already committed to buying his product, but he is out of the market, and I still want a replacement. So how about it? Are you planning to sell these?


For the record, I'm a mechanical designer by day and so I'm guilty of over thinking everything and I'm intentionally going over-kill with this, since I'm first and foremost doing it for myself.

Well like I said above, it really depends on what the cost to manufacture comes out to be. I consider the effort of the initial run a labor of love to make myself one, and if the raw materials + machine time + shipping doesn't put it out of the ballpark for what you folks find acceptable for a replacement, then I don't see why not. That being said I don't want to get ahead of myself. Let me finish one. If it is something I'm proud of and would feel comfortable selling to others then I'd be happy to offer a quality, US designed and produced part to the community.


Couple more pics - Switch panel section coming together:


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Report this Post07-31-2013 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by evowake:

It will definitely not be produced from a solid hunk of aluminum. That'd be one pricey part, both in material cost and machine time. I'm building a cad skeleton of the positionally relevant items (holes, fastener locations, etc etc,) to model the components that will make up the final product around - which will help me ensure I have a precise part in the end.

It will initally begin as a handful of parts which will be assembled into 3 or 4 more permanent sub-assemblies that are readily disassembled for access to important areas.

Frankly the BEST method would be to make it with an additive manufacturing process... (3d printer) But again... limited by what equipment is available.



Cool... I just made an assumption with the word billet. A 3D printer with the right material would be awesome, we use one for fast prototyping at a previous job, but the materials used were not strong enough for much of anything other than small parts.
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Report this Post07-31-2013 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:


Cool... I just made an assumption with the word billet. A 3D printer with the right material would be awesome, we use one for fast prototyping at a previous job, but the materials used were not strong enough for much of anything other than small parts.


Yea, when I started the thread my excitement got ahead of my logic

There are a variety of new 3d printing technologies that can print with organic materials... polymers... metals... but again... $$$$$$$

That reminds me.. I do have access to one at the local community college, I may need to see if i can run a couple parts!
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Report this Post07-31-2013 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierogtlt1Click Here to Email fierogtlt1Send a Private Message to fierogtlt1Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
evowake you have a PM..
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Report this Post07-31-2013 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KOSClick Here to visit KOS's HomePageSend a Private Message to KOSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by evowake:


There are a variety of new 3d printing technologies that can print with organic materials... polymers... metals... but again... $$$$$$$

That reminds me.. I do have access to one at the local community college, I may need to see if i can run a couple parts!


Machine yours out of AL, then make some rubber molds off those parts and reproduce plastic ones. That probably is by far the cheapest way to make this (without access to expensive machinery). However you need to keep the mold making part in mind while designing your AL part. Meaning the rubber mold sections for each piece should be thought about during the design portion.

If you were closer I would let you run them on my cnc mill

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Dan
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evowake
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Report this Post07-31-2013 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That would be a good idea for making spares but I'm not sure homebrew molding would offer me the type of consistency, control, and quality that i'd be happy to install in my own car let alone offer to others, but then again I don't have a ton of experience with it. May be worth lookin into once i'm through. I can always modify the CAD models slightly and produce a positive to make a mold from. first priority is to finish one that i'm happy with for my '88 GT. I appreciate the offer on the CNC!

[This message has been edited by evowake (edited 07-31-2013).]

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Report this Post07-31-2013 06:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for evowakeClick Here to Email evowakeSend a Private Message to evowakeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another peek-ski

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