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Wiring harness Gurus. Recommendations? by fierocarparts
Started on: 06-18-2013 11:57 AM
Replies: 28 (871 views)
Last post by: ericjon262 on 10-31-2013 06:17 AM
fierocarparts
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Report this Post06-18-2013 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have pulled the trigger and have retained the services of a trusted member of this forum. I had him in mind when I was looking as he doesn't hesitate in helping others. But doesn't return parts or emails I know it will be a challenge thinking "out of the box", but I hope to pave the way for future harnesses.

THINKING about sending out my 3900 Harness to speed up my project and save my sanity. That was a HUGE mistake!I'm comfortable with wiring, but going into a new depth of car repair. I have replaced engines but have never done a swap using the OE computer from a different vehicle.
I have spoken to one person on here that frequently helps others and am leaning that way, but would love to hear other people's experiences.
I don't mind hearing from vendors directly either. but ones that stay in contact

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 10-30-2013).]

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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post06-18-2013 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i did my harness for my 3500 LX9 2x... first time looked aweful... 2nd time looks ALOT better and took 1/3 of the time to make... im sure if i did it again, it would look even better and take less time, since your using the stock ecu for the engine, then i assume MOST of what youll be doing is just un-pining and re-routing the wires to fit the fiero engine bay better, wouldnt think that should be too bad of a job, just keep everything neat and labled..
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1fast2m4
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Report this Post06-18-2013 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1fast2m4Send a Private Message to 1fast2m4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I too was tight on time and totally capable of doing my own harness, but with a self imposed 60day time limit to have the car running before a big car show, I outsourced the harness to Phonedawgs (aka reddevilriver) and I couldn't have been happier. while I was busy with mounting and other issues to get the car on the road, my harness was constructed and on the way. when it got here it took it all apart and final assembly took one Saturday and the car was running Sunday. I REALLY REALLY thought I would regret paying for a harness, but it was quite the opposite.

------------------
1986 SE 3800SC/4t65eHD (12.871@104.96) I'll Sell it if you like
1985 GT 3800SC (swap in progress)

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fierocarparts
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Report this Post06-18-2013 11:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Time I have plenty of. Knowledge is good. Comfort level of doing a good job without major frustration-LOW. One reason that I'd like to do it myself is to know what I'm looking for in later diagnostics. Not sure what software will be best to use to delete certain features I'd like to add back in later (dimming interior lights). Learning curve is going to be extremely steep for me. Last scanner I owned was new for OBD I.
From what information I have, it mainly is re-pinning. I hate to dive in, frustrate myself and end up sending it out anyway.
Cost to have it done may be a factor.
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1fast2m4
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Report this Post06-19-2013 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 1fast2m4Send a Private Message to 1fast2m4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It has been said before, thinking about it is the hardest part.


And the PCM doesn't even conntrol the lights, that's the BCM (body control module). You wond be using that from the doner and if you do that's going to be one heck of a car when your done.

------------------
1986 SE 3800SC/4t65eHD (12.871@104.96) I'll Sell it if you like
1985 GT 3800SC (swap in progress)

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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post06-19-2013 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 1fast2m4:

It has been said before, thinking about it is the hardest part.


And the PCM doesn't even conntrol the lights, that's the BCM (body control module). You wond be using that from the doner and if you do that's going to be one heck of a car when your done.



if he uses the PCM from the car, he may HAVE to use the BCM, some newer models require both to 'run' ... not saying he needs to hook everything upto it tho...
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fierocarparts
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Report this Post06-19-2013 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think it does require the BCM also. But I have all of those from the donor car. I want some of the features from the donor, but first things first.
The PO cranked/started the car out of the car using the donor steering column.
http://youtu.be/i7DJz8oSRPI

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 06-19-2013).]

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BV MotorSports
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Report this Post06-19-2013 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wasnt ericjohn working on a LX9 swap?
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fierocarparts
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Report this Post06-19-2013 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are some that are close, but I don't know of any that are using donor BCM/ECM.
It is more the factor of not having a good idea of where to start.
I had a good understanding of where to go when I picked it up, but I built a house and it has been 18 months since picking up the motor.
edit: I found boxes of parts that were missing. It is starting to make more sense now!

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 06-20-2013).]

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fierocarparts
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Report this Post06-21-2013 01:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With ALL the swaps, I figured there would be all sorts of recommends. It looks like I will be getting the Factory Service Manual for the Uplander (donor) and figuring it out. Going to a wrecking yard tomorrow and look at an Uplander. Website doesn't describe what is left or condition. Throwing the dice!
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post06-21-2013 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One of the problems I see is if you are going to incorporate the BCM to do more than just be there is that the BCM portion of the harness can't be plug and play.

I am interested as per my email. I do know it would be way over time for me however since there would be a lot to learn.
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Report this Post06-21-2013 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is a great guy I would trust for this: phonedawgz
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fierocarparts
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Report this Post06-22-2013 01:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Left you VM earlier. Was hoping to finalize order and clarification on what to send.

 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

One of the problems I see is if you are going to incorporate the BCM to do more than just be there is that the BCM portion of the harness can't be plug and play.

I am interested as per my email. I do know it would be way over time for me however since there would be a lot to learn.


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fierocarparts
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Report this Post10-16-2013 02:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I sent my harnesses out in July to be done, I was pressed for time. I have wrapped up my little projects and now ready to get started.
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Report this Post10-16-2013 09:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have completed on 3900 swap so far where the stock ECM/TCM and fly by wire was retained in the end it is up and running with a few small issues to deal with but it is running with out a BCM so it can be done. Dan

------------------


DARN Cars now open with
Over 30 years wiring experience between cars and trade as an avionics technician in both Canadian Air Force and civilian aviation.
Over 25 years experience building and modifying cars.
Over 10 years of full Fiero engine swaps and harnesses building and still going.

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ericjon262
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Report this Post10-17-2013 11:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:

Wasnt ericjohn working on a LX9 swap?


hopefully I will be able to get back on my swap here next month, just need to get a trailer...

I'm running a 3400 PCM from a van.

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we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Report this Post10-17-2013 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I wish I could say I've designed my LZ9 install, but I just bought it mounted to an 88 cradle. Sent the harness out to be done back in July. Getting a little nervous. I've sent numerous emails and left messages in the last 2-3 weeks with NO response, but I have seen them post here on PFF.
Mine is from a 2006 Uplander.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-1-086691.html

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:


hopefully I will be able to get back on my swap here next month, just need to get a trailer...

I'm running a 3400 PCM from a van.

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 10-18-2013).]

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ericjon262
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Report this Post10-17-2013 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I built my harness myself, but something like I have wouldn't work for an LZ9 unless you want to ditch VVT.

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Report this Post10-17-2013 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have another 3900 swap lined up for next month I can take photos and notes if it will help, this one is going to use the F40 and an 06 G6 GTP ECM to control it. Dan
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Report this Post10-17-2013 11:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

I have another 3900 swap lined up for next month I can take photos and notes if it will help, this one is going to use the F40 and an 06 G6 GTP ECM to control it. Dan


I'd be interested in seeing the full build.

------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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Report this Post10-18-2013 01:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm wanting to keep it completely stock (for now) any adjustments would be through tuning. With motor/Trans only having 30 miles on them, I want reliability. Plus I'm interested in the torque curve being flat.
Now to just get the harnesses back so I can get started.
FieroFlyer, I look forward to picking your brain or sending it directly to you.

 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

I built my harness myself, but something like I have wouldn't work for an LZ9 unless you want to ditch VVT.



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Report this Post10-18-2013 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is not a lot of rewiring when it comes to the 3900 harness if you keep the ECM/TCM in the engine bay so it should be fairly straight forward to talk you through the harness build. I found if you remove the water cooler from the oil filter adapter and use the oil filter screw from an LS V8 block the filter with out the water cooling will clear the block with an inch and a half to spare.
Big problem I ran into was the sensors on the 3900 are a different pitch thread as the older Fiero sensors that run out gauges so that slowed me down a bit and you need to make sure the electronic pedal you use is a match for the engine. I used an 07 Uplander set up but tried to use an Impala pedal as it was a nicer fit but it would not work and ended up having to use the uplander pedal in the end.
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Report this Post10-18-2013 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dan,
The pedal that came with the set up I bought was from the donor car. Looked at pedal on Fiero before sending it off. Didn't look too bad to hook up. Previous owner had it labelled pretty well. As far as fitment in cradle, he had the cradle modified and relocated the oil filter.
Now that I have the FSM for the donor, I'm sure it will be easier. Checked and found excellent place to mount donor ECM.
I'm really wanting to get it running, now that I have time to mess with it again. Just have to get all the parts back.

 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

There is not a lot of rewiring when it comes to the 3900 harness if you keep the ECM/TCM in the engine bay so it should be fairly straight forward to talk you through the harness build. I found if you remove the water cooler from the oil filter adapter and use the oil filter screw from an LS V8 block the filter with out the water cooling will clear the block with an inch and a half to spare.
Big problem I ran into was the sensors on the 3900 are a different pitch thread as the older Fiero sensors that run out gauges so that slowed me down a bit and you need to make sure the electronic pedal you use is a match for the engine. I used an 07 Uplander set up but tried to use an Impala pedal as it was a nicer fit but it would not work and ended up having to use the uplander pedal in the end.

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 10-20-2013).]

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Report this Post10-19-2013 02:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dan,
What all will I need to procure if I'm unable to retrieve my parts? Can a PCM from another Uplander be used?
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Report this Post10-19-2013 08:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes an ECM/TCM for auto cars from another same year Uplander can be used which are pretty easy to find as well as a complete harness from another Uplander 3900. Dan
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Report this Post10-20-2013 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dan,
Just in the little we have spoken, I can see that I have made this more difficult in my mind than it has to be. Look forward to picking your brain, especially the drive by wire.
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Report this Post10-30-2013 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierocarpartsClick Here to Email fierocarpartsSend a Private Message to fierocarpartsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Dan,
I'm guessing from what you have told me that the sensors from the Fiero are "reused" to run the gauges? Would it be easier to use the 2.5L harness or wait for the return of my 2.8L V-6 auto harness that I shipped off?
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Report this Post10-30-2013 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sensors from the Fiero will not thread into the sensor holes on the 3900 as they changed the threads on the sensors on the 3900 engine the same way they did with the V8 LS engines and I believe the newer 3500 as well.
You can easily drill and tap to mount a coolant sensor on this engine but the oil pressure sensor is a little harder and remember the 3900 ECM is still wanting its stock sensors to run the engine with so they also have to stay.
Either the Fiero 2.8 or 2.5 harness is fine as it is just the C203 and C500 that is being reused on the swap harness.
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Report this Post10-31-2013 06:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

Sensors from the Fiero will not thread into the sensor holes on the 3900 as they changed the threads on the sensors on the 3900 engine the same way they did with the V8 LS engines and I believe the newer 3500 as well.
You can easily drill and tap to mount a coolant sensor on this engine but the oil pressure sensor is a little harder and remember the 3900 ECM is still wanting its stock sensors to run the engine with so they also have to stay.
Either the Fiero 2.8 or 2.5 harness is fine as it is just the C203 and C500 that is being reused on the swap harness.


LX9 3500 uses the same threads as the Fiero.
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