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Fiero 1.4l Turbo Engine Swap by macrophallus
Started on: 03-15-2013 11:21 PM
Replies: 48 (3775 views)
Last post by: jsmorter on 09-27-2014 03:38 PM
macrophallus
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Report this Post03-15-2013 11:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have an 86 Fiero & I just bought a 1.4l Turbo motor from a 2012 Chev Cruz the was written off dues to damage to the rear part of the frame. The motor is complete with harness, computers, 6spd mt, shifter & linkage, cv joints & cradle. Anyone done one of these yet? Any advise/comments?

Thanks
Robert
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Report this Post03-16-2013 01:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't think this swap has been done before, but I think it would make a neat swap. I rented a Cruze a couple of weeks ago and it had some pretty good zap for a small engine. Good luck with the swap!
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Report this Post03-16-2013 01:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Welcome! Take lots of PICS!
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macrophallus
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Report this Post03-16-2013 01:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will. I just don't know how to post them on here. I can only link images from a web location? How do I do that? First, I don't know where on the web to place my pics. I guess once I knew where & how to place them on the web I can easily figure out how to link them on here.
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mrfiero
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Report this Post03-16-2013 01:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by macrophallus:

I will. I just don't know how to post them on here. I can only link images from a web location? How do I do that? First, I don't know where on the web to place my pics. I guess once I knew where & how to place them on the web I can easily figure out how to link them on here.


I use www.myfiero.com to host pics.
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Report this Post03-16-2013 01:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Now this I wanna see! I'm curious as to what you will need to do to make the newer ECM/PCM's happy in a Fiero. Even though it's a manual setup, the wiring might be the most difficult. And you'll have to swap in the electronic gas pedal. I bet the MPG on the highway will be 45-50MPG. The Cruze really isn't that heavy, a manual Cruze Eco weighs in at just over 3,000lbs. A manual Fiero weighs about 2600lbs with a lighter engine.
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Report this Post03-16-2013 08:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Now this I wanna see! I'm curious as to what you will need to do to make the newer ECM/PCM's happy in a Fiero. Even though it's a manual setup, the wiring might be the most difficult. And you'll have to swap in the electronic gas pedal. I bet the MPG on the highway will be 45-50MPG. The Cruze really isn't that heavy, a manual Cruze Eco weighs in at just over 3,000lbs. A manual Fiero weighs about 2600lbs with a lighter engine.


The Cruze Eco can get at least 47 MPG highway. I leased one for 2 years, and got that a few times. Even got 42 MPG average on a trip going over the mountains.

I doubt the Fiero will get better MPG though. The Cruze Eco's cd is about 0.298, with the 88 Coupe Fiero being 0.35 and the other Fiero models being higher than that. There's a lot of changes in the Cruze Eco to reduce rolling resistance, drag, and weight, from the Cruze LS and LT. Some ultralight wheels, low rolling resistance tires, and dumping of unnecessary weight on the Fiero will help a fair bit though.

If you're going to swap the drivetrain in, you might as well grab the whole car, because you're going to need most of the electronics.
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Report this Post03-16-2013 09:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 12-25-2013).]

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Report this Post03-16-2013 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
not a swap i have considered but should make for a fun fiero .go back to the wreckers and get the ignition lock and keys from the car you got the parts from .also the DBW pedal assembly and all the wiring harnesses associated with said parts .i would also pick up the fuel pump and harness .if you get all this stuff , getting the motor to run is plug and play .you dont need the stereo , airbags or anything like that .the engine will still run without any of that .same with vsa and abs .if you incorporate the cruz instrument cluster , you will have warning lights on but no running problems .not interfacing with fiero wiring is the easiest way to do a modern engine swap .just use the fiero ignition to feed power to the cruz starter and hide the cruz ignition in the centre consul until you get someone to tune out the VATS .i dont know if you can do this with HP tuners or not .go on their website and check if it is a supported vehicle .your milage should be pretty high .i get over 40 on freeways and i run a turbo 2.2 ecotec f23 5 speed in an 86 gt .
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Report this Post03-16-2013 12:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Invest in a factory service manual. It is great for figuring out circuit operation as well as wiring diagrams. IMO, it is essential when undertaking a never before done swap.
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Report this Post03-16-2013 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NJD85GTSend a Private Message to NJD85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


I doubt the Fiero will get better MPG though. The Cruze Eco's cd is about 0.298, with the 88 Coupe Fiero being 0.35 and the other Fiero models being higher than that. There's a lot of changes in the Cruze Eco to reduce rolling resistance, drag, and weight, from the Cruze LS and LT. Some ultralight wheels, low rolling resistance tires, and dumping of unnecessary weight on the Fiero will help a fair bit though.



You have to take into account frontal area when comparing drag coefficients and overall drag. Yes, the Fiero has a higher CD than the Cruze but the Fiero also has around 80% of the frontal area of the Cruze so the net effect is the Fiero actually has less aerodynamic drag than the Cruze.

Nate

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Report this Post03-16-2013 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:
47, seriously? I never heard of anyone getting past 42MPG, then again I never really asked. At that rate I might as well just buy a Cruze Eco and be done with it.


Yes. I got 45 MPG going to DC and back once as well. Got ~42+ MPG driving over the mountains even. And that was mostly driving between 70-80 MPH depending on the area.

Heck, this article claims to have gotten 58 MPG on the highway at 55 MPH: http://www.conceivablytech....pg-no-hybrid-magic/2

They were probably on a very flat highway with not traffic when that happened though.
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Report this Post03-16-2013 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by NJD85GT:
You have to take into account frontal area when comparing drag coefficients and overall drag. Yes, the Fiero has a higher CD than the Cruze but the Fiero also has around 80% of the frontal area of the Cruze so the net effect is the Fiero actually has less aerodynamic drag than the Cruze.

Nate


Do you have actual numbers? The Fiero is slightly wider and has the windshield at a steeper angle. They're probably pretty close though. So maybe the same MPG can be expected, or at least close to it. I think the 87-88 coupe body has the lowest drag of the 4, but it's going to be pretty close to what the Cruze Eco has as well.
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Report this Post03-16-2013 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NJD85GTSend a Private Message to NJD85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Do you have actual numbers? The Fiero is slightly wider and has the windshield at a steeper angle. They're probably pretty close though. So maybe the same MPG can be expected, or at least close to it. I think the 87-88 coupe body has the lowest drag of the 4, but it's going to be pretty close to what the Cruze Eco has as well.


I'm finding frontal areas anywhere from 18.6 to 19.5 square feet for the Fiero. I know my '85 GT with the headlights DOWN has a CD of. 0.35. At sea level air density, this gives an aerodynamic drag at 80 MPH of 110 lb for 18.6 ft2 and requiring 23.6 HP at the wheels to overcome (aero drag only, not rolling resistance and other losses) to 116 lb of drag with 19.5 ft2 and requiring 24.7 HP to overcome aero drag.

The Cruze Eco looks like it has a cd of 0.29 and a frontal area of 23.96 ft2, giving 118 lb of aero drag at 80 MPH and requiring 25.1 HP. So they are very close.
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macrophallus
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Report this Post03-16-2013 05:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
By the way, I tried the MyFiero.com site to upload my photos but haven't got a clue how to use it. I went into "imagehost" clicked browse & retrieve my photo from my computer but went I clicked send it just refreshed the screen & I have no idea if the image upload & if it did where to go to see it. Can someone please walk me through it in case I missed a step?

thanks
Robert
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Report this Post03-16-2013 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NJD85GTSend a Private Message to NJD85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Use PIP, it's made for the forum. http://www.fiero.nl/pip.html

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1985 GT | 4.9 Allante | M17/MY8 Hybrid 4-Spd Muncie | '88 GT Cradle Swap

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Report this Post03-16-2013 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for What about BobClick Here to Email What about BobSend a Private Message to What about BobEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've owned a Cruze Eco since 2011 and when I drive from Michigan to Wisconsin, I usually get 48 MPG going and 42-45 MPG on the return trip. It’s a great little car that has a lot of room inside. I was wondering how the drive train would work in a Fiero.

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Bob
84 SE IMSA Widebody
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Report this Post03-16-2013 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post






Well it's a start. These are the photos of the motor assembly I bought. Next step, Getting into the Fiero.

[This message has been edited by macrophallus (edited 03-16-2013).]

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macrophallus
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Report this Post03-16-2013 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

macrophallus

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What's going on? Where are the photos? Do they have to go through an approval process first?
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Report this Post03-16-2013 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for What about BobClick Here to Email What about BobSend a Private Message to What about BobEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here you go:







You must have had a space after the [img]
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BV MotorSports
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Report this Post03-16-2013 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BV MotorSportsClick Here to Email BV MotorSportsSend a Private Message to BV MotorSportsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think this is an awesome idea. We engine swappers need to keep trying new power-trains as they come out. Its never going to be a rocket (obviously) but that shouldn't be the only reason to try a "new" swap. Yeah, I know, I cant believe I just said that too!

Good luck! BTW is this a DI engine?
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Report this Post03-16-2013 07:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So you can't have a space after or between inserted the images?
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Report this Post03-16-2013 07:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mattwaClick Here to Email mattwaSend a Private Message to mattwaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm surprised, I was expecting alot more wires and crap. Looks pretty simple for a 2012 power-train, and light-weight. No problem fitting that in the engine bay! Problem is, it looks like it had two torque axis mounts, one on each end. So you would need to make a large bracket that goes from the Fiero cradle to those points, or you could make and weld a bracket on each end of the engine bay, but of course those said areas would need reinforcements to spread out the load since it's really only sheet metal.
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Report this Post03-16-2013 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
looks like you are missing the wiring harness for the BCM .or did you get it separately ? basically , you need the entire car's wiring harness to make it work .you can get rid of lights etc after you figure out what you do need .i am pretty sure this is a DI engine , but that really does not complicate things as all the high pressure stuff is packaged on the engine .you just need to get the in tank pump(low pressure ) and wiring to go with it .
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Report this Post03-16-2013 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by macrophallus:

What's going on? Where are the photos?


You've doubled up on the [img] and [/img] brackets. Click to edit your post and you'll see.

(I had to swap out an "i" for a "z" below for demonstration purposes.)


[zmg][ZMG]http://images.fieroforum.com/2012/DSC00011.jpg[/zmg][/ZMG]

[zmg][ZMG]http://images.fieroforum.com/2012/DSC00008_1.jpg[/zmg][/ZMG]

[zmg][ZMG]http://images.fieroforum.com/2012/DSC00007_1.jpg[/zmg][/ZMG]

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-16-2013).]

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macrophallus
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Report this Post03-16-2013 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I personally didn't add them. I just did ctrl-v as it says to do & that's all I did. Thanks for the fix though!
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Report this Post03-16-2013 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:
Good luck! BTW is this a DI engine?


Yes, the 1.4L Turbo is SIDI.
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Report this Post03-16-2013 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for uhlanstanClick Here to Email uhlanstanSend a Private Message to uhlanstanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Darth Vader can help you with the electronics
Motor Trend,car& driver & other car test magazines are reporting some of the new Cruze models get up to 50 mpg, I subscribe to Car & Driver! great MPG reports on the late model Cruze
if you want Fiero style & great MPG going into Obumbles ask for $8.00 a gallon gas
you can not go wrong with an 87/88 Fiero duke 5 speed,& parts are less

you can install the later duke head if you want to equal the cruze MPG hiway
plus,more stylish lighter rear wheels & tires for increase MPG around town..

Please keep us informed ,,GOODLUCK I woud love to have an ecotec in my GT Fiero ,,this is a very difficult swap..

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-16-2013).]

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Report this Post03-21-2013 08:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just bumping this back up...

That swap was talked about here, but it appears it never progressed beyond the talk.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...120111-1-082883.html


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3.4L Supercharged 87 GT and Super Duty 4 Indy #163

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-21-2013).]

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Report this Post03-21-2013 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XgovernmentAgentSend a Private Message to XgovernmentAgentEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Yes, the 1.4L Turbo is SIDI.


Sequential Injection Direct Ignition? I know it's not a direct injection motor, not the one in my 2013 sonic anyways.

I saw a site that had one of these motors for a dune buggy/sandrail IIRC. Something to look for to see what was involved on that swap

[This message has been edited by XgovernmentAgent (edited 03-21-2013).]

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Report this Post03-22-2013 08:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by XgovernmentAgent:
Sequential Injection Direct Ignition? I know it's not a direct injection motor, not the one in my 2013 sonic anyways.

I saw a site that had one of these motors for a dune buggy/sandrail IIRC. Something to look for to see what was involved on that swap


Spark Ignited Direct Injection : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection

Maybe the one in the Sonic isn't? I'm not sure now. I recall seeing "SIDI" in the Cruze info when I got it a couple years ago, and was looking through the booklet, but now I'm not entirely sure. Maybe they aren't yet then. Would be interesting to see what kind of MPG they get when they add SIDI then, given I was able to get 47 MPG in the Cruze Eco.
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Report this Post03-22-2013 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What transmission is it? It vaguely resembles an F40, Curious about it as it may be a gear ratio option for the F40 swappers.
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Report this Post03-22-2013 06:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's a lower torque 6 speed than the F40. It's the M32.

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Report this Post03-23-2013 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PBJClick Here to Email PBJSend a Private Message to PBJEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
looking for advise/comments.

Well. I owned a cruze for a year and put 30 000 kms on one (automatic trans) thought it was great a first but the longer I owned it the more I HATED the engine/trans. Was getting sick of the "two stroke" power band. No power then to much to accelerate nicely, drive the bag off it to make it perform and then poor fuel economy. I will never again buy a vehicle that relies so heavily on the turbo to make power to move it rather then a turbo for added performance. I traded the cruze in on a Buick Verano..same car just a real engine (2.4 eco) and have put 10 000 kms on it an love every bit of it. So my advise...resell the engine get a real ecotec, sry.

Pete

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Report this Post03-30-2013 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So far so good. I got the motor, tranny & cradle out of the Fiero & have it sitting side by side with the new 1.4l Turbo. Looks like a very similar setup. Hopefully this will be a relatively simple swap. I'll have some picture later this week.
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Report this Post03-31-2013 08:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PBJ:
looking for advise/comments.

Well. I owned a cruze for a year and put 30 000 kms on one (automatic trans) thought it was great a first but the longer I owned it the more I HATED the engine/trans. Was getting sick of the "two stroke" power band. No power then to much to accelerate nicely, drive the bag off it to make it perform and then poor fuel economy. I will never again buy a vehicle that relies so heavily on the turbo to make power to move it rather then a turbo for added performance. I traded the cruze in on a Buick Verano..same car just a real engine (2.4 eco) and have put 10 000 kms on it an love every bit of it. So my advise...resell the engine get a real ecotec, sry.

Pete



Did you have the auto LT or something? I drove my Cruze Eco like it was a sports car everywhere I went, running to 5K+ off the line, often shifting at 6500. I got 28-30 MPG around town consistently, and 45-47 on the highway, consistently. The torque curve on the 1.4 turbo is relatively flat, from 1800-4900 RPM. It's not fast, but even with that tiny engine, it was still fun to drive with the 6 speed manual.
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Report this Post04-01-2013 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There's a guy named Roger Thelin who sells hardware for Fiero Ecotec swaps. I'm not sure if anything he sells will work on the 1.4 turbo or not. But it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Here's his contact info: http://www.noidearecords.com/thelinsells/
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dobey
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Report this Post04-01-2013 09:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

There's a guy named Roger Thelin who sells hardware for Fiero Ecotec swaps. I'm not sure if anything he sells will work on the 1.4 turbo or not. But it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Here's his contact info: http://www.noidearecords.com/thelinsells/


His trans mounts appear to be for the F23, and I'm not sure those will work for the M32 trans.
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macrophallus
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Report this Post04-11-2013 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good News for those interested in this swap. I tacked some temporary motor mount onto the sub frame I stuck the motor back into the car to check out the fit & location. To my elated surprise not only does the motor fit in the compartment perfectly but believe or not the new CV joints from the 2012 Cruze fit into the hubs of the Fiero without any alterations needed what-so-ever. I mean they are the right length & everything. All I have to do now is set up the permanent motor mount & then course all the other hook up but that just save me a couple grand right there.
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macrophallus
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Report this Post04-11-2013 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for macrophallusClick Here to Email macrophallusSend a Private Message to macrophallusEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Attached is the motor the way it sits right now. Don't mind the dust. It is a shop.

[This message has been edited by macrophallus (edited 04-11-2013).]

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