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Any Interest in a $550 12lb. Aluminum Flywheel for a 10" clutch in a F40 6 Speed? by fieroguru
Started on: 11-07-2011 01:48 PM
Replies: 70 (3462 views)
Last post by: Bozzie on 10-25-2014 09:54 PM
fieroguru
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Report this Post11-07-2011 01:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As some of you following my LS4/F40 thread may know, I made a custom aluminum flywheel for the LS4/F40 application and designed it around using a 10" clutch set (4.0L Ford Ranger).



Here is a comparison between and the 10" Spec 4+ clutch (Left) and a Fiero sized Spec 3+ 9" clutch (Right):



My flywheel weights under 12 lbs, so it is about 4 lbs less than a stock Fiero flywheel. The 10" clutch weights about 1 lb more than the 9" one, so together my flywheel/clutch combo will weigh about 3 lbs less than a stock Fiero setup. Also, if you do the math on the friction surface, the 10" clutch has 25% more friction area and the centerline of the friction material is 1/2" larger in diameter.

I sent my print for the LS4/F40 flywheel off to a CNC shop and based on that quote I am considering offering a custom aluminum flywheels for the F40 transmission for the following applications: 88+ 60 degree V6, 4.9, N* and LS4... Offering these 4 engine families would require 4 programs with the center bore and crank pattern different for each, but would not increase the price as long as I have 5 people for each setup.

The tentative target price would be $550 shipped (lower 48 states) for the fully assembled flywheel (flywheel, wear strip, and ring gear). Clutch is not included.

It is a long shot that this project will have enough interest, but just thought I would throw it out there and test the waters.
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Report this Post11-07-2011 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
Also, if you do the math on the friction surface, the 10" clutch has 25% more friction area and the centerline of the friction material is 1/2" larger in diameter.



What are the ID's and OD's of the friction surfaces on the two clutches?

Relative torque capacity = (OD12-ID12)/(OD22-ID22)

That @$$umes the same friction material and total clamp load.

Going from the 9 1/8 to 9 11/16 is about 15% improvement, for example.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-07-2011).]

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Report this Post11-07-2011 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As you probably already guessed, a resounding yes please from me.
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Report this Post11-07-2011 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have no use for this product but must say you my friend are a Artist when it comes to making parts. Everything I have seen you make is always top notch, thought out in every way and no cheaping out or taking shortcuts.....Good looking product at a great price for what you are getting.....

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Report this Post11-07-2011 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaClick Here to Email Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Why didn't Archie did that with his V8 F40 kit??
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Report this Post11-07-2011 07:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Why didn't Archie did that with his V8 F40 kit??


Archie's kit uses the larger ring gear and is for RWD swaps that require an adapter plate.
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Report this Post11-07-2011 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


What are the ID's and OD's of the friction surfaces on the two clutches?

Relative torque capacity = (OD12-ID12)/(OD22-ID22)

That @$$umes the same friction material and total clamp load.

Going from the 9 1/8 to 9 11/16 is about 15% improvement, for example.



I already did the math a couple months ago and got the 25%. In my LS4/F40 thread there is a pic of the 10" (nominal) clutch with a tape measure. The ID is 6 1/4" and the OD is 9 13/16. Can't remember what the 9 1/8" one actually measured off the top of my head.

 
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:

I have no use for this product but must say you my friend are a Artist when it comes to making parts. Everything I have seen you make is always top notch, thought out in every way and no cheaping out or taking shortcuts.....Good looking product at a great price for what you are getting.....


Thanks for the compliment!
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Why didn't Archie did that with his V8 F40 kit??


Archie's friction spacer plate is adaptable to all the other swaps and his kit has been used in all but the N* and LS4 swaps already. So he kinda has... in complete kit form.

For the LS4 swap I had to either build a custom flywheel to accept his spacer plate or just build a custom flywheel the needed thickness... So I focused on clutch options instead and found the largest clutch setup that would work on the F40 and designed the flywheel around it. Most would say that the 9 1/8" Fiero size clutch has proven itself to hold over 500 hp somewhat reliably, but I am more focused on smoother engagement and longer wear than absolute holding power... thus the quest for larger diameter.

 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

As you probably already guessed, a resounding yes please from me.

I figured you were interested. Just need another 2-3 people for the LS4/F40 combo I will make that flywheel happen.
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Report this Post11-07-2011 08:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageClick Here to Email ArchieSend a Private Message to ArchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:

Why didn't Archie did that with his V8 F40 kit??


As far as the SBC kits are concerned, I already had more than 1800 Stick shift SBC conversion kits out there. I designed the 6 speed kit for the SBC so that people who already had SBC's in their cars (like you) wouldn't have to buy & replace parts they already had bought once.

Remember how the only part from you're original SBC stick swap that wouldn't work with the 6 speed is the Clutch.

Archie
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Report this Post11-07-2011 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SynClick Here to Email SynSend a Private Message to SynEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would defiantly be interested!!! as I think you already know
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Report this Post11-08-2011 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just a shameless bump... from the posts and PM's it looks like only the LS4/F40 flywheel is gaining the needed interest to become a reality.
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Report this Post11-08-2011 06:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since the N* doesn't need an adapter to bolt to the six speed would an Archie clutch set up work? Yours wouldn't right?
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Report this Post11-08-2011 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

Since the N* doesn't need an adapter to bolt to the six speed would an Archie clutch set up work? Yours wouldn't right?


You have 3 options...
Use the normal N*/Getrag flywheel (about .820" thick) and use Archie's F40 spacer/clutch combo
Use the N* version of my LS4/F40 flywheel (with the proper center bore and crankshaft pattern for the N*). Both the N* and the LS4 have the same crankshaft depth into the bellhousing, ring gear diameter and neither requires an adapter plate.
Do something completely different.
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Report this Post11-08-2011 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for iluvsd619Click Here to Email iluvsd619Send a Private Message to iluvsd619Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would be interested too. Just can't commit right now. Good work! Can't wait to see it run! Thank you for all the great info.
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Report this Post11-09-2011 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sspeedstreetClick Here to Email sspeedstreetSend a Private Message to sspeedstreetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm going to need one for my LQ1/F40 install.
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Report this Post11-09-2011 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rourke_87_T-TopClick Here to Email rourke_87_T-TopSend a Private Message to rourke_87_T-TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll commit to the N*/F40 clutch-flywheel. PM sent.
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Report this Post11-09-2011 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Based on my personal experience, Paul provides excellent work as well as outstanding custom products.

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Report this Post11-11-2011 06:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The LS4/F40 flywheel and the N*/F40 flywheels both appear to have the needed interest so it will be the first flywheel created. I am also planning to adapt it to another application with the addition of 1 part to increase the marketability and increase the range of lower cost engines that it can be used on. I will probably gear up for 10 LS4/F40 flywheels on the initial run.

The N*/F40 is gaining interest, but there just are not than many N* swaps completed or in the works. The 60 degree V6 interest is quite low as well, so at this point I will start looking at having the CNC shop run some flwheels with the center bore hole, but w/o the bolt pattern. I need to check the center bore for the N* and the 60 degree V6's to see if the flywheels can be made with the larger bore and use a pressed in bushing for the smaller one. Then I can use the same flywheel for both applications and drill the needed crank pattern on my mill.
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Report this Post11-11-2011 07:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
+1 if you can roll one for a neutral balance 60 degree. Haven't got much use for it otherwise. I have a 3.4 DOHC Turbo to be mated to an F40. I was going to make my own flywheel out of a RWD's flywheel, but would rather do this, as long as it works of course.
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Report this Post11-11-2011 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
I need to check the center bore for the N* and the 60 degree V6's to see if the flywheels can be made with the larger bore and use a pressed in bushing for the smaller one.


Yes.

IE, that's how I adapted a V6 flywheel to my Northstar.
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Report this Post11-11-2011 11:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is the crank flange on the High Value V6 the same as the older gen 60 degree V6es? If so, you can probably find a few buyers on the G6 forums, as I'm sure some of the 3.9+F40 owners might want a lightweight aluminum flywheel.

Some of the 60degV6 forum guys might want the option as well, to swap in an F40. Don't know if you have accounts on any of those forums, but if so, might be worth checking out.
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Report this Post11-11-2011 11:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Is the crank flange on the High Value V6 the same as the older gen 60 degree V6es? If so, you can probably find a few buyers on the G6 forums, as I'm sure some of the 3.9+F40 owners might want a lightweight aluminum flywheel.

Some of the 60degV6 forum guys might want the option as well, to swap in an F40. Don't know if you have accounts on any of those forums, but if so, might be worth checking out.


They had a group buy a while back for an aluminum copy of the stock 3.9/F40 flwyheel, not sure if it ever panned out for them. The big difference is that their flywheel retained the stock G6/F40 raised pressure plate (which was larger than 9 1/8" in diameter). Once I have the first batch or two of flywheels made and all the Fiero applications are filled, then I will focus more on marketing them on other forums.
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Report this Post11-11-2011 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would be interested in the Northstar version, but would want to know what the shipping costs would be to Canada before I would commit. International shipping with brokerage fees often takes the "good" out of a good deal.
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Report this Post11-11-2011 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
They had a group buy a while back for an aluminum copy of the stock 3.9/F40 flwyheel, not sure if it ever panned out for them. The big difference is that their flywheel retained the stock G6/F40 raised pressure plate (which was larger than 9 1/8" in diameter). Once I have the first batch or two of flywheels made and all the Fiero applications are filled, then I will focus more on marketing them on other forums.


Well, it looks like I can get one for my LS4 at least, so I'm happy.
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Report this Post11-12-2011 08:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaClick Here to Email mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
PM sent, No E-mail listed.

--Allen

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Is this where I insert something witty?

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Report this Post11-12-2011 08:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We are up to 4 interested parties for the N*/F40 version so that is very promising. I will have to research shipping to Canada for at least 2 flywheel requests.
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Report this Post11-24-2011 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maddhatterSend a Private Message to maddhatterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hello everyone,as my first post,i will commit to buy a flywheel for my ls4/f40 fiero build,i would like to throw around some ideas with you guys.Dave
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Report this Post11-30-2011 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If this is a GO, and I can get one for a 60 deg neutral balance engine, PM me and I will put the money down for it.
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Report this Post11-30-2011 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I currently have an Archie 6 speed swap. I was the original 2.8 + 6 speed prototype.
When I put in a 3400 roller cam block, I bought a Fidanza aluminum flywheel to mate his spacer to.
I will probably need a new clutch in a year. When the time comes, I'd love to get a 1 piece solution especially if it lightens the overall package that I currently have.
I am prepared to pay for a 60 degree F40 flywheel but am hesitant to pay up front for it as a rule for anything on the internet.

So if you make it, I will buy it then.

Also, I have a stock Formula that at 61k miles burns 2 quarts of oil betwen oil changes. It's got a 5 speed now and I'd love to put in another 3400 block + 6 speed when the time comes... As well as upgrade my current 3.4 to a LS4 (hello Archie/fieroguru!!!)...

Ideally, I would love it if Archie could act as an investor and that way you could make more up front and lower the unit costs. I think a 1 piece solution would be a great addition to his kits.
My potent 3.4 roller cam motor with 6 speed on a fully loaded GT averages in the upper 20's on gas mileage where as my stock Formula 5 speed averages 22mpg. Everyone should do a 6 speed swap, it's a cost savings in the long run.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 11-30-2011).]

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Report this Post11-30-2011 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am pleased to see interest growing for the 60 degree flywheels.

Currently working to finish my LS4/F40 combo so I can test out my clutch setup and confirm everything works as expected. Once that is done, then I will order the first batch of 5 LS4/F40 flywheels.
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Report this Post12-02-2011 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcaandaClick Here to Email mcaandaSend a Private Message to mcaandaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
...
Once that is done, then I will order the first batch of 5 LS4/F40 flywheels.


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Report this Post12-14-2011 02:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would need this some day. I just need to know what is being done for the electronics side of the swap. Mine would basically need the exact same stuff as an originally equipt LS4 car sence I have everything from the Monte installed in my Fiero. I just cant hack the ECM because I still need the rest of the electronics to function.
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Report this Post02-02-2012 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump, as my interest in this has not changed.
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Report this Post02-02-2012 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Currently working to finish my LS4/F40 combo so I can test out my clutch setup and confirm everything works as expected. Once that is done, then I will order the first batch of 5 LS4/F40 flywheels.



So, get off the internet and get back to work. There are those of us out here that want to see that hot rod finished.

Oh Yeah, bump for another great product and thread.

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Report this Post02-03-2012 02:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for eph_kayClick Here to Email eph_kaySend a Private Message to eph_kayEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will commit to a N* f40 flywheel as well, I can't say I don't want to take advantage of the Spec Aluminum flywheel I already have and the CNC mill, but this will be simpler and I can't argue with that

Chris
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Report this Post02-03-2012 05:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobsessedClick Here to Email FierobsessedSend a Private Message to FierobsessedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll settle for a flywheel that has no crankshaft bolt holes if It means I can get in on the first batch.
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Report this Post02-03-2012 06:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We are still a couple months away. My LS4/F40 has to be up and running so I can verify the clutch & flywheel.
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Report this Post03-15-2012 04:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KissMySSFieroClick Here to Email KissMySSFieroSend a Private Message to KissMySSFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
do you think these will still happen?

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Report this Post03-15-2012 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

do you think these will still happen?



Eventually...

My current project focus is shifting back to getting the LS4/F40 running (vs. other R&D projects). Once I get some miles on it and prove out the design, then this project will get the green light.
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Report this Post03-15-2012 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And I'm still interested!
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rourke_87_T-Top
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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jan 2009


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Report this Post03-15-2012 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rourke_87_T-TopClick Here to Email rourke_87_T-TopSend a Private Message to rourke_87_T-TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm still interested in the N*/F40 flywheel also.
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